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View Full Version : Would you be more attracted to the Imperium if they were the underdogs of 40k?



Duskraven
18-05-2007, 01:57
As it stands, there are many races that are much worse off then the imperium of mankind, and they come off much more like a necessary evil, which dosnt really appeal to me.

Do you think that you would be more attracted to the imperial cause if they were alot less powerful then they are?

Slaaneshi Slave
18-05-2007, 02:02
Well most people play Space Marines, who are the least powerful fighting force in the galaxy, so it probably wouldn't make much difference.

Minister
18-05-2007, 02:06
Necessary evil has always been my "thing" in any wargame or RPG. Never got the hang of either True Good or unnecicary evil.

So, no. I rather like the Imperium (particularly the Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy (including Adepta Sororitas) and Imperial Navy)

Winimperial
18-05-2007, 02:08
Not really. At least to me, a guardsman is still a guardsman. I don't tend to actually think about the "cause" of the race too much when im playing. It was just really the look and playing style of the guard that drew me in.

Khaine's Messenger
18-05-2007, 02:21
I'm attracted to them already. Making it any weaker than it already is would be hard to convince some people of, since just about every estimate of the Imperium regarding its own chances for success in the long-term (and occasionally short term) are depressingly bleak. And the idea that they're a necessary evil is just as absurd as their invincibility, imho. Of course, I suppose you could just say that our interpretations differ and that by suggesting that the Imperium already is weak and necessary only for its own self-aggrandizement, I am in fact agreeing with you. Pick your poison, I suppose.

twisted_mentat
18-05-2007, 02:49
I feel the Imperium is already a underdog. It only stays together out of a HUGE expenditure of resources, both in raw materials and man/womanpower.

Its constantly at war, often on the defense, or even its offensive wars are to reclaim lost worlds.

No other race, besides the Eldar, are as much on the ropes as the Imperium.

loveless
18-05-2007, 03:18
Heck no, the Imperium is the best part of 40K. Crazy religiously charged humans fighting off alien scum - what's not to love?

galahad67
18-05-2007, 03:25
They are the underdogs.

surrounded by external enemies

internal conflict with the battle against reason / heresy

forced by idealogues to remain stagnant for the last 10 millenia (or more)

If there was ever a regime in dire need of "regime change" the Imperium would be it.

of course that's a heretical view and one that would deserve fiery absolution...

Templar Ben
18-05-2007, 03:27
I agree that as much as everyone says they are the underdog I don't really see it. The Eldar have been dying for 10K years and they are still around too.

Grimshawl
18-05-2007, 03:41
As it stands, there are many races that are much worse off then the imperium of mankind, and they come off much more like a necessary evil, which dosnt really appeal to me.

Do you think that you would be more attracted to the imperial cause if they were alot less powerful then they are?

I'd be more atracted to them if their was room enough to swing a dead cat around and not hit a space marine, I mean seriously I dont have a problem with the imperial guard theirs supposed to be millions and millions of them and even more if you count their planatery defence forces, Billions and billions of them, okay fine, works for me, but the rarety of Marines never comes thru in any meaningfull way in 40K nowadays, meanwhile groups like the orks, who are truely supposed to be the endless horde are barely represented and or religated to the sidelines.

Iracundus
18-05-2007, 03:42
Despite it being said the Imperium is beset on all sides and things looking bleak, it never really seems that way in the end because on the large scale it always tends to follow the following template: Evil Threat attacks and all looks bleak, then at the end the Space Marines (with occasional Inquisition/IG/Sisters of Battle/etc. help) swoop in at the end and save the day.

Kind of hard to buy into the whole sliding downhill Imperium when their fat is always pulled out of the fire via deus ex machina or GW writer fiat. One of the really missed opportunities to show the Imperium decaying would have been to emphasize the Chaos victory in the 13th Black Crusade instead of trying to do the opposite and downplay it and restoring the status quo. Even emphasizing the Chaos victory wouldn't mean the Imperium falls overnight but it would have certainly added to the sense of impending doom particularly when it was achieved by the players.

Likewise it would have been nice to have the infighting among the Imperial players reflected more among the Imperium fluff. Despite it being said in the fluff that the Imperial organizations can have infighting or be separate, the story and campaign templates always seem to have everyone joining into one singing happy dancing band to unite and fight off the Evil Threat. Not to say this can't happen but having things like it happen over and over again gets repetitive and again doesn't give the impression of an Imperium losing ground.

azimaith
18-05-2007, 03:52
The imperium would be more popular if the fluff for space marines wasn't so silly.

Right, they get shot out of thunderhawks at supersonic speeds and fall near a thousand feet land fine before getting stepped on by a titan and not being hurt then 3 of them get to together and stop a billion tyranids from eating a world.

Its enough to make you sick.

EmperorEternalXIX
18-05-2007, 03:53
I play Space Marines because bad-ass anti-heroics are my thing.

The state of the Imperium has very little to do with it.

Besides, just because the Eldar are nearly dead doesn't make people flock to them. Other than that, who has it worse? The Imperium may be intact, but it suffers from corruption, a complete loss of the emperor's true guidance and will, endless chaos betrayals...and countless xenos/warp assailants on ALL sides in a constant vie to eradicate them.

Yeah their fighting force is probably the most well-maintained in the 40k world, but ultimately it is fighting for its continued existence. I like the Space Marines because of how powerful their devotion to humanity's concurrent survival is. And again, bad-ass anti-heroism is my thing.

As for their fluff...how are the space marines any harder to believe than the Eldar (oops we all had an orgy and accidentally created demonic beings with our minds!), the orks (yum yum I'm a big mushroom who does nothing but chop at things all day till I die), or the Chaos marines (we're scary warp demons but we look like HELL demons, rawr!)?

Ktotwf
18-05-2007, 04:45
I like the Imperium as it is - not strong enough to be super dominant and boring, but strong enough that you don't think "Why are these wussies still around?"

I like the Space Marines as they are - it offends me more when they die like Guardsmen in the fluff, than when they are ridiculously strong.

bigbear bailey
19-05-2007, 15:52
This one goes out to all the Eldar players... Look your army is on the brink of WTF because the "dying" have been dying for how long now? 20 million year or something? Give me a break, if you are going to sit here and talk about the iperium then please realizt that the concept of the eldar is stupid... They should already be dead by now... enough said...

Ronin_eX
20-05-2007, 09:54
I dunno, the Imperium is beset on all sides by unimaginable horrors against which they can barely defend themselves against and so they need to undertake actions many would think reprehensible just to survive. The Imperium are the survivors and underdogs of the setting because they can't rely on being to small to destroy (Tau) or zipping away safe and sound to the webway to fix history so they wont die (Eldar). They are the most vulnerable race in 40k, they are constantly on the verge of collapse and it is only through shear brutish will that they remain. To those who run the Imperium the ends really justify the means, and the ends are the survival of the human race in the face of overwhelming odds. Atleast that's how I like to see it, they're not evil, they're survivalists.

Formarion
20-05-2007, 10:17
I like them just the way they are, in all of the fluff prepared (bad way to start an example but whatever xP) it mentions that if most armies outside of the imperium were able to unite (orks being the main one) no-one could stand in their way. The only way the imperium has managed to win fights against these massive hordes is to throw countless billions of men at them along with asking permission for space marines to join in. If the imperium was the underdog then they really wouldn't stand a chance, even with space marine help.

I tend to not look at armies as good/evil, as they all have their own wicked little spin in places, or elements that could make them seem as unfortunate by-products of a terrible miscalculation or hedonistic error (Thousand Sons and DE spring to mind). Of course you have the complete loony armies out there like Night Lords, but even then it still paints a sad depiction on how they came to be this way. The imperium is definitely evil AND good in a strangely equal measure...but if they turned into pious, lesser equiped Tau (something fishy about those folks too <_<) then humanity would be shafted.

azimaith
20-05-2007, 10:18
The imperium is so large its mostly losing ground more than hanging on. Theres just so much ground to go through.

As for not being evil, ridiculous, there as evil as it comes. Being a survivalist doesn't stop you from being evil.

Mr_Smiley
20-05-2007, 10:33
I love the Imperium the way they are, they have a real, we are not good, but damn you should see the bad guys, feel to them. Making them underdogs would make them seem less evil in my opinion and ruin them.

azimaith
20-05-2007, 10:36
Hell the imperium is just as bad as the bad guys anyhow. Thats what makes this the grim darkness of the 41st millenium. Their outspoken goal is nothing less than galactic genocide. Hell even the necrons don't want galactic genocide. The "evil" of chaos is even more ill-defined. So far they aren't guilty of anything in excess of what the imperium does on a common basis other than perhaps growing horns and tentacles.

superknijn
20-05-2007, 10:39
Nope. I've grown to hate 'underdogs', it's so overdone in American films it's not dramatic anymore.

Keeper Of Secrets
20-05-2007, 10:50
I think at the end of the day the problem with Imperials is the difference between fluff and actual rules.

The Astartes are supposed to be Uber Killy Angels Of Death, yet their rules dont portray them that way. If they were 75pts each and thier leaders could rip the turret off a tank and use it as a weapon but they could only be attached to IG/Inquisition then they would be less hated, as it would fit thier fluff much better, and hopefully allow the other armies to flourish because of less Space Marines.

The current problem is that there are only 1,000,000 Marines in comparison to the Trillions of IG, Orks,Tyranids yet more than half the armies you see are Space Marine

Bunnahabhain
20-05-2007, 11:49
There's actually a fairly good analogy tor the Imperium. Russia 1941-42.

They cause alot of bad stuff to happen, but not as bad as some others.

They're on the back foot, and are trading space , and a huge number of casualties for time.

They may survive, they may not, but it will be very bloody finding out.

But trying to get this kind of feel across, when so much of the current fluff is there to help sell marines who cannot lose to beginners, is never going to happen

Templar Ben
20-05-2007, 13:17
This one goes out to all the Eldar players... Look your army is on the brink of WTF because the "dying" have been dying for how long now? 20 million year or something? Give me a break, if you are going to sit here and talk about the iperium then please realizt that the concept of the eldar is stupid... They should already be dead by now... enough said...

Well, here's to hoping for a C.S. Goto Trilogy. That will fix that.