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Mahu
08-08-2005, 17:43
I am starting Warhammer Fantasy (coming from 40k) with the Wood Elves. Not because they are the new army, but rather I have been waiting for their arrival to enter Warhammer.

Now, the only other regular fantasy player at my club, is a huge Dwarf fan. (Ask me about his Iron Warrior Squats) and he plays Dwarfs of all varients.

My question is, what should I look out for and what streangths of my list I can use against him.

Harrisondaly
09-08-2005, 09:10
The fact that he is alot slower than you so you can outmenouver him also most your army is skirmish so sticking to the woods until the time you feel you will win a combat so they cannot shoot you as much.

Crazy Harborc
09-08-2005, 19:47
Glade Guard /Woodie basic archers, shoot 15 inches at short range at S4. That means dwarves attacking need three turns to cross the 15 inches to start HtH. They start 24 inchs away.

With luck your archery units will start 2 inchs inside woods. Dude, Dryads are core, T4 and nasty fighters. Never mind Treemen (50mm bases), use the Treekin. (For now I am using old treemen on 40mm bases). War hawks or a couple of Eagles will hopefully get you into this artillery park

IF, you can afford the Armybox and or Battalion boxes, get one biggie or two of the smaller. It looks like there's about 1800pts worth of goodies in the armybox. IMHO, skip the dragon until it's about all you haven't gotten yet.

Sanjuro
10-08-2005, 11:21
I don't really see how Dwarves have a chance to earn victory points against a Wood Elf army. Maybe if they got lucky and they shot down a treeman or a couple of treekin with cannonfire, but I don't really see why the WE player would let artillery live that long.

The rest of the time, WE skirmishers and fast-moving heavy hitters will just pick off the Dwarven army piecemeal. The dwarves have no possibility to respond to the threats presented by the speedy and manouverable Elves fast enough.

I'd say that WE are one of the worst matchups for Dwarves.

Etienne de Beaugard
10-08-2005, 15:19
Hmm...

If your opponent is smart, you will find yourself in a stalemate situation. The Dwarfs wouldn't be able to charge you, due to Elven movement. As a result, you'll likely face a dwarfish brick. Big blocks of warriors forming a bulwark from which war marchines and thunderers create a zone of death around the dwarfish army.

If you get stuck in with the Dwarfish warriors, you'll quickly find yourself outmanoeuvred. While they only mv 3", Dwarfs can't be march blocked. Many who charge the Dwarfish line find themselves stuck in and flanked.

If your Dwarfish opponent breaks formation , you have won the game. Your fast moving units can destroy isolated units and retreat.

If the Dwarfish player does not break formation, you will have to concentrate your assault on one point of his line. Make sure you have something to guard you flanks of your attacking force.

Forest Spirits will serve you better than actual Elves.

Mahu
10-08-2005, 17:15
What would I expect in a 500 point army?

Etienne de Beaugard
10-08-2005, 18:49
Um, not a whole lot. 500 points is really limited. It also implies both players are just starting.

I played around with 500 pnts of Dwarfs and got a block of 16 Warriors with HW/HA/SH and full command. A smaller group of 11 Warriors HW/HA/SH and full command, lead by a Thane with Gromril armor and a Great Weapon. And finally 10 thunderers.

Such a list will be a challenge with only 500 points. Dryads skirmish, and thus can never take away the Dwarven rank bonuses. You would have to do 4-5 wounds just to tie the combat.

The units that have a chance to harm Dwarfs are expensive specials and rares.

Your best bet is to take a Lvl2 Spellsinger with a bow of Loren. Get a unit of glade guard and maximum unit of scouts. Hide the glade guard and dance around the Dwarfs at about 27" You can shoot and magic them while they can't respond. Concentrate on the weakest armored units and hope you can get enough VP's to get out of the draw range.

Sanjuro
10-08-2005, 18:53
Forest Spirits will serve you better than actual Elves.

No kidding. They should have named it 'Warhammer Armies: Dryads and treemen'! ;)

On a serious note, how much damage could dwarven warmachines possibly do to a WE army? Apart from killing the Treeman, they have extremely limited uses against the rest of the army. Cannons and bolt throwers are just a waste of points, organ guns and flame cannons have some merits, but why in the name of all that is good and holy would a mobile WE player march into their extremely short range? War machine hunters should eliminate most dwarven artillery in the first few turns anyway.

This leaves shooters like crossbowmen and thunderers, and they are of limited use against skirmishers and high toughness stuff like treekin. Their only viable target would be elven ranked units (there are those too?) and cavalry.

My point is that the dwarves can do nothing but sit and hope that the WE player decides to charge unsupported into the main dwarven defensive line, where he is as strongest. And that is just not going to happen.

In fact, the WE would do well in killing off the only things that can reach out and touch them (namely the shooty bits) and then just sit on their asses the last 3 turns of the game, safe in the knowledge that the dwarves will never, ever be able to recoupe their losses.

Yay, what fun! Oh well, at least it is a more involved playing style than the SAD army or the Empire (or, for that matter, the Dwarven) gunline.

Inquisitor Engel
11-08-2005, 23:01
No kidding. They should have named it 'Warhammer Armies: Dryads and treemen'! ;)

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, it is possible to make an all Forest Spirit Army, but to that you need to either go for Drycha, which bars you from even using non-Forest allies, at over 350 points, a treeman ancient, who after Spites will come to somewhere over or about the 400 point mark.

Or a Branchwraith, who's simply not as good a Glamourweave Spellsinger. True it's a cheap Hero, but you're really going to need that Lord Choice to compete at most point values.

Dryads can be fantastically fragile if hit hard. The all Forest Spirit army suffers from a large lack of maneaverability, a fast Skirmishing unit or Fast Cavalry can be up charging the flanks of those rather expensive Dryad or Treekind units before you can make like a tree and leaf. (Sorry, had to)

Elves are there to cover the weaknesses the Forest Spirits have, and vice versa. Forest Spirits are more CC than an Ogre or Chaos list is, and the Elves lack a real combat punch outside of Wild Riders and Eternal Guard (Okay, and Wardancers, if you choose your targets right) Even then, Eternal Guard are made to defend, not attack.

They cover each others weaknesses well, which is exactly what the list is supposed to do.

therisnosaurus
11-08-2005, 23:11
let's not forget that wild riders are *also* forest spirits, so your forest spirit list looks like this

lord:
ancient
wildrider highborn
glamourweave spellweaver
(drycha)

heroes:
branchwraith
wildrider boble
glamourweave spellsinger

core:
dryads

special
wild riders
treekin

rare:
treeman


that's not tooo bad, at least your hero selection is decent and the wild riders give you both manoeverability and rank removal (thank god)

Inquisitor Engel
11-08-2005, 23:31
let's not forget that wild riders are *also* forest spirits, so your forest spirit list looks like this

I'd forgotten about that... Hmm.

Nazguire
12-08-2005, 06:02
The all Spirit army is very, in my opinion, boring. Its got nothing that is striking as interesting or diverse. The entire Core choice are Dryads which, if charged, have no hope. The Special Choices are Wild Riders, which aren't too bad, and the abysmally priced Tree-Kin which give you the only real hitting power asides from the Treeman Ancient or Branchwraith. The Rare Choice is just a Treeman. Granted that it is on par with a Dragon in sheer destructive potential but only a Treeman gets boring real quick. Granted you can have Drycha or a heap of Branchwraiths which adds a bit of hitting power to your Dryads, but the tactics and selection in your army list avaliable are plain to say the least.

fracas
12-08-2005, 16:01
take skirmishers as defense against his missile fire and artillery
charge his flank units (as you are more maneuvarble this should be possible)
while avoiding his center

would not take tree kin or treemen as they are flamable and will be easy targets for his artillery/flame cannon.

use your free forest terrain and ability to move them to
1. block his center and line of sight
2. deliver units closer to his line

Sanjuro
12-08-2005, 21:03
Treekin are not 'abysmally priced'. They are probably the best ogre-sized monster unit in the game in terms of effectiveness (being both incredibly resilient as well as very destructive), and they end up costing a lot of points as a result.