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karnn
20-05-2007, 09:07
I love warhammer, not so much the painting which i infact hate but the gaming i love the idea of it. I love writing about Warhammer and i like making army lists. However i am really bad.
Today i lost againt a 1.5k Orc army with my Lizardman force. I could say hey well done since the orc army is mine as well and i actualy made a good list, however i lost the battle and lost it by not just a few points but alot.

In fantasy in the 8 battles i've played i have won 3. Now you would think that isnt bad but the ones i lost was by alot and the ones i won was just barly.

Now today after i lost the other player gave me so much crap about how good he was i was almost ready to snap and how it was his first game and how bad i was.

I am not sure if i should keep spening my $$ on a game which i cant win.
Or should i persist and maybe i'll somehow learn basic tactics.

gortexgunnerson
20-05-2007, 09:15
8 games isnt exactly a lifetime experience in a game, 3 wins isnt too bad. Find someone who knows what their talking about and learn from them. Or play an army that removes some of the tactical edge, try a simple block army. Lizardmen are good but require a certain skill in combining the troops types. They are an army of good troops but require skill to balance them without having a bit of everything but not enough of everything.

If it's a cash issue, stop buying stuff till you have sorted where your army is going. play with proxies for a bit and sort your army and plan out

Vattendroppe
20-05-2007, 09:17
You could always turn to read the tacticas for the different races here at warseer, that should give you some help. But I think that you should keep it up, 8 games isn't very many, and you get better from training and training and training.

How much you won the games by doesn't really matter, just think of it i terms of lost and won games (the winner always writes the story, make sure to make it glorious!). Since you seem to already have an army to play with theres no reason to spend more money to it unless you find it joyful, but keep the army and play to get better.

Also, try to find a better opponent. A good winner is certainly golden when you're a beginner. And if you find that nice, fun guy to play with, make sure that you're nice and fun to play with also. Try to discuss afterwards about your and his moves and actions in the game, that's one of the best way to learn!

Bregalad
20-05-2007, 11:27
Try playing with nice people in the future, playing with ***holes is never fun. Losing against nice people doesn't matter so much, when the game itself is fun.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
20-05-2007, 11:33
losing is no excuse to give up.
You love the hobby, so be strong, and carry on. You will get better.
If you're not great with tactics why not get Rome Total War? after a few years of that you'll know if you are going to win or lose before the game has started! :D

Falkman
20-05-2007, 11:34
I don't win often either, and often get placed far down at the bottom at our local tournaments, but that doesn't bother me, because I don't really care if I win or lose, as long as I had a fun game with a nice opponent :)

Sanjuro
20-05-2007, 11:36
Dude, 8 games? You need at least 80 to get some worthwhile statistical data to base a decision like that on.

And a game you can't win? Put it like this: you almost have an 50/50 win/loss ratio. There are gamers who aren't even close to that. Well, there aren't if you are to go from the win/loss ratios that tend to appear in signatures on this site - if those are to be believed, 90% of all Warhammer gamers have near perfect win/loss ratios. One wonders whom they are playing against - perhaps the guy who loses all the time is in fact the same guy? Some sort of interdimensional Chump whose only purpouse in life is to inflate other people's egos?

That aside, do give the game some more time. It can be frustrating at first, especially if your opponents are much more experienced, I imagine. You should at least continue playing the year out and then take the decision if you want to continue. I mean, the things that drew you to the game must still be there, right? You don't start because the only thing you want to do is to win all the time.

That comes later. :D :angel: :cheese:

karnn
20-05-2007, 11:39
yer i wouldnt quit, it was just all the crap the person i fought said really pissed me off.
And to that person who sugested Rome total war, i never thought of using the conection lol i have that and Medievial total war 2. So i might use that lol it might help

Falkman
20-05-2007, 11:41
Occasionally you meet those guys, and if you're in a tournament you just have to clench your teeth and play the game through, and if you're not in a tournament, you don't even have to play them :)

Vattendroppe
20-05-2007, 11:42
Occasionally you meet those guys, and if you're in a tournament you just have to clench your teeth and play the game through, and if you're not in a tournament, you don't even have to play them :)

Would be pretty cool to just say "No, I don't fell to play against you since you cannot handle a win/loss without start bragging/whining so that my ears hurt."!

kyussinchains
20-05-2007, 11:44
you won 3 of your first 8 games? who cares if it was only just a win? those are the best games, if you only care about annihilating your opponent I think you should re-evaluate why you play, sure it's nice when everything goes your way and you win by miles, but it isnt usually that way, normally there is give and take on both sides and close games are almost always fun!

Sanjuro
20-05-2007, 11:47
Yeah, close games are pretty universally always more fun for both participants. The best games of my gaming carrier have mostly been draws. The only time I can really feel good about a massacre is when you meet some cheesed-out git and give him a right good spanking with your mediocre list.

Or, of course, if you yourself happen to bring a cheesefest to the table and get your behind spanked. I tend to view that as quite entertaining as well. ;)

ghost21
20-05-2007, 11:56
bud i have no luck
but i colect mainly and play the odd game
but if your a good sportsman and take it on the chin play for playing as the rest of the no luckers you can be the best well sportsman if not the best player

karnn
20-05-2007, 12:02
nah i dnt want to destroy him, i want to play fun battles where it is close to the very end not ones where i get destroyed and find my self strugling for the battle.

And another thing i think 1/2 of my rolls per battle are 1's and 2's seriously i cant stop rolling them, and i roll them when the dice count the most. Anyone else suffer from that problem, like not just some of the time but all the time.

ghost21
20-05-2007, 12:06
nah i dnt want to destroy him, i want to play fun battles where it is close to the very end not ones where i get destroyed and find my self strugling for the battle.

And another thing i think 1/2 of my rolls per battle are 1's and 2's seriously i cant stop rolling them, and i roll them when the dice count the most. Anyone else suffer from that problem, like not just some of the time but all the time.

me! im the number 1 king dude those snake eyes love me i swear

Sanjuro
20-05-2007, 12:08
To be honest, I think that's a percieved problem - you tend to only remember bad rolling, not average or good rolling.

But there are of course such thinks as bad luck streaks (they eventually end) or, possibly, bad dice. If your dice roll crap on you, it's time to change them and get some new, pimpin' dice for you to roll with!

Crube
20-05-2007, 12:13
Hey, my first games with my Tzeentch army, Won 1 lost 9...

and I've been playing 26+ years.

Keep playing - you'll start to learn things about your armies - what works well, what doesnt.

You'll never stop some freak dice rolls (my treeman running away from a Hydra in a recent tournament springs immediately to mind - straight off the board :rolleyes: - but you should still be able to have fun doing it :)

Atrahasis
20-05-2007, 12:34
One wonders whom they are playing against - perhaps the guy who loses all the time is in fact the same guy? Some sort of interdimensional Chump whose only purpouse in life is to inflate other people's egos?The number of times I have met people at tournaments and they've said "I think I might have a good chance, I haven't lost with this list yet!" before they proceed to get spanked 6 ways from Sunday cannot be counted.

Playing within a small gaming group gives no real measure of how good a list or general is except within that gaming group.

As for the OP : play as many games with and against as many armies and opponents as you can. I had a less than stellar win/loss ratio when I first started (I think we all did) and the best teacher is experience. Be sure to ask your opponent why he did certain things (if he's not willing to say during the game, which is understandable, ask afterwards).

deadkez
20-05-2007, 12:46
My advise is to pick an army list you like using tactics you want to play. Get this list evaluated on this site and others, tweak and then stick with it, do not change the list at all for 5 games...

Play for a draw in each of those five games.

Learn about what your units are good at doing and how to maximise their use. Remember that some units have to die, and make sure that its the units that you don't mind being dead. Remember that you don't have to kill all your opponent's units to win the game (that was my biggest obstacle).

As you learn about your army and become more confident with it, it will get easier and more enjoyable.

kyussinchains
20-05-2007, 13:18
me! im the number 1 king dude those snake eyes love me i swear

well I have my very own nickname based on my horrifically unfortunate luck, my name is Simon and the nickname is 'Snake-eye-Si'

fracas
20-05-2007, 13:31
bah

i lose all the time but still have fun playing and learning
as long as i am learning and doing better and having fun playing i don't care too much for the win loss record

Sanjuro
20-05-2007, 13:49
Playing within a small gaming group gives no real measure of how good a list or general is except within that gaming group.

Exactly. Even though I tend to get spanked on tournies rather than administer most of the spanking, this is painfully obvious.

By the way - what types of armies do you play, Atrahasis? I've always wanted to ask.


well I have my very own nickname based on my horrifically unfortunate luck, my name is Simon and the nickname is 'Snake-eye-Si'

My nicknames are 'The King of Cheese' and 'Master of Bald Moves'. Speaking of small gaming groups... :D

Sasha
20-05-2007, 16:39
meh, when i learnt to play i lost repeatedly too. even now i only tend to win with games that would be generously described as 'a little lucky'.

maybe try playing with each others forces and trying to mimic what he does with the different troops; what roles he gives them, how he moves them, etc.

Atrahasis
20-05-2007, 17:55
By the way - what types of armies do you play, Atrahasis? I've always wanted to ask.

My first army (15 years) is Empire. I haven't touched them for about 2 years until recently when the new book relit my enthusiasm for them.

I also play DoW using a lot of the models that used to be in Empire but are now DoW only (kislev horse archers, halflings, ogres, etc), this is probably my second army if I'm honest.

Other than that I can put together 2000 points plus of Ogres, Beastmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, and Tzeentch Daemonic Legion. My brother has large collections of O&G and Wood Elves with smaller forces of Hordes and Lizardmen.

If you mean style of army then I favour lists that are heavy on troops, with minimal characters/magic items and a smattering of supprt like monsters or war machines. I do tend to get distracted by "gimmick" lists though, like my Beast Chariot army, or my current guilty secret which is a Daemon army consisting of 90 or so flesh hounds.

I've played every army at some point except Lizards, Brettonians, and Dwar[f|ve]s. :)

Fat Monkey
20-05-2007, 18:21
Please dont give up !

Your three wins in your early games is actually impressive.

I have been trying to get my head around using my Tomb Kings army for 18 months and have only just won my first battle. What this has meant is that the victory was even sweater and rather than playing to win I have had 18 months of fun and play testing.

I would always prefer to enjoy playing rather than constantly trying to win !

So don't give up and enjoy the hobby

505
20-05-2007, 20:35
its not a question as to do you suck but do you have fun

yeah winning is fun but you can have fun and not win too. its all in your attitude.

DeathlessDraich
20-05-2007, 21:04
Now today after i lost the other player gave me so much crap about how good he was i was almost ready to snap and how it was his first game and how bad i was.

Or should i persist and maybe i'll somehow learn basic tactics.

Winning, losing being a good general, unlucky.
None of these things really matter.
This game is really a hobby, frowned upon or sometimes ridiculed by outsiders and yet many are fully commited to it for years. It is a very inconsequential game, played for enjoyment or in my case distraction.

You have to ask yourself, what is your motivation in playing this game.
If you truly enjoy and wish to have fun, then ignore players who upset you. Players who truly play for fun and not to win are few but they exist.

If you wish to be a player who wins, then practice and you'll get better. This game is much easier to master than chess, a game I used to play competitively and which I consider to be harder.


Hey, my first games with my Tzeentch army, Won 1 lost 9...
:)

Still play with Tzeentch? That was my first army too.:p


bah
i lose all the time but still have fun playing and learning
as long as i am learning and doing better and having fun playing i don't care too much for the win loss record

Great sentiments, similar to mine but I think which part constitutes 'fun' varies with players. I find it hilarious when dice rolls churns out the ridiculous especially when it is to my detriment - e.g. a crewman inflicting a wound on a powerful character.
In the early days of playing, I found the different special abilities great fun when suddenly unleashed.

Nowadays, I prefer to analyse both my opponent's and my moves during the game and inevitably find out that the outcome nearly always hinges on 1 or 2 critical dice rolls.

I've always maintained that this is a game of 90% luck and 10% skill, closer to poker than to chess. It requires more depth of knowledge than tactical skill and nothing beats a sequence of lucky dice rolls.

karnn
20-05-2007, 22:45
yeh i have fun, but not when i get beaten at every move.

Like i have no problem loosing, but when i loose i get flogged. Now i have a chance to redeem my self in 2 weeks with my Lizards vs Empire, so i'll get a list going and post it on the site.

But thanks guy i supose 3/4 aint to bad

Won with Orcs against Orcs
Lost with Orcs againstOrcs
Won with Orcs against Skaven
Lost with Orcs againstBeastmen
Won with Orcs against Dwarfs
Lost with Orcs against Khorne Chaos
Lost with Lizardman against Orcs

That is my record so far.

theunwantedbeing
20-05-2007, 23:03
Hardly worth quitting the hobby over if you ask me.

I've had games where I got crushed and nothing went right for me,plenty of them infact,hasnt stopped me playing as those are just freak games that never go right for me.

Heretic Burner
21-05-2007, 01:08
Considering you have almost one half your games with O&G(!) that isn't half bad at all.

Still if winning is that important to you then you might want to give your Lizardmen more play. A far stronger army which should help your record.

Angelwing
21-05-2007, 04:00
Won with Orcs against Orcs
Lost with Orcs againstOrcs
Won with Orcs against Skaven
Lost with Orcs againstBeastmen
Won with Orcs against Dwarfs
Lost with Orcs against Khorne Chaos
Lost with Lizardman against Orcs

That is my record so far.

emboldening mine.

That would be worth getting beaten 10 times! :D
Its a pretty good tally so far, hardly worth the fuss of quitting.

guillaume
21-05-2007, 04:14
Dude, if this was your first game with lizardmen, well it is going to take you a little while to get use to them.

Lizardmen are really good, but you really NEED to play with them a lot to get use to them.

Dont give up. Heck if people gave up because they lost, I would have abandonned a long time ago.

This hobby is a long term thing. You may have noticed that some people here have played for 26+ years. I have been playing since 94 and I love it. I was crap at first, but you learn.

Besides, just this weekend I entered a 1000pts tourny and even though I thought I was going to own everyone, I drew to play against a dwarf gunline on the first round and got nowhere even though my record with the lizzies is rather good.

Llew
21-05-2007, 04:23
I'll echo the sentiment here. 8 games is no determiner of how well you'll do.

If you were just sitting down to learn chess, how many games would you expect to win? At best, assuming your opponent is right where you are in terms of experience, 4 of 8. If your opponent had just a little experience with chess, you'd be lucky to win 1.

The tactica give you a lot of great ideas. You're learning a game with almost infinite variety. The types of troops, the opponent, his skill, the terrain layout, etc. all make huge differences in what you need to do to win. Then you have to factor in dice rolling on top of it.

I've been on a winning streak lately playing against my friends, but I took many, many brutal beatings for years before I started to get better.

plasticfrog
21-05-2007, 04:52
There's also more to the hobby than gaming. I don't game much anymore- life is too busy- BUT I take time out to paint my miniatures.

Which I find very rewarding- probably more so than gaming (I tend to get spanked when I play).

Cpt_NinjaPants
21-05-2007, 05:32
Keep playing n practicing. OR bitch and become Emo.

karnn
21-05-2007, 07:55
first option sounds good, dnt really want to be Emo.

pcgamer72
21-05-2007, 07:58
Please, please, please don't give it up after only 8 games! That is seriously not close to enough games to make any kind of judgment. I began playing Lizardmen as well, ans I suggest sticking with the same list for a few games. That way you can learn how the units work together and what is replaceable.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
21-05-2007, 16:25
There's also more to the hobby than gaming. I don't game much anymore- life is too busy- BUT I take time out to paint my miniatures.

Which I find very rewarding- probably more so than gaming (I tend to get spanked when I play).

yes but he hates painting , so, no there isn't much more to it.

Nineswords
21-05-2007, 17:26
In fantasy in the 8 battles i've played i have won 3. Now you would think that isnt bad but the ones i lost was by alot and the ones i won was just barly.


Up in Sheffield I am known as '18 Games'. When I was play testing my army list I took on everyone of every army and lost. Again and again and again for a straight 18 games. Then I started to win. A lot. The secret is to find out how your army performs consistently and find your greatest strengths and exploit them. Trust me, winning is boring. Lose in style.

wingedserpant
21-05-2007, 20:49
Dude you have potental. Three wins in your first eight is next to amazing. I went about 30 without one win when I started and now I win against most of my age group and sometimes against the vets. The more you lose the better player you become. You can adjust to losing and will pick up the good sportmanship awards at tournies which are quite vital. You'll be a sportsman and your opponent is a general. You'll soon have both and he'll be cying in the corner.

In my opinion, best sportman>best general.

zak
21-05-2007, 21:03
You really need to think hard about whether you want to play against that opponent again. If he gave you such a hard time using your models, then he is no friend at all. Keep trying and playing and most importantly experimenting to see whats best for you and your playing style.

karnn
21-05-2007, 23:19
ok thanks guys, i'm ganna keep going and if i loose well i loose but i know it will get better