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Red_Lep
20-05-2007, 21:40
Whats a good mix of units to have for a 1000 point match? I was thinkin' a Paymaster with shield and heavy armor, Truthsayer(I know, expensive and take my rare but I like it and I dont care if I loose aslong as its fun) which go in a unit of Ricco's Republican Guard. 2 units of Pikemen to cover the flanks and counter-charge. 2 units of duelists with pistols to go shoot stuff and march block. Sound atleast decent even though expensive? Ideas on what to take for 1500 and 2250?

Canadian_Khan
20-05-2007, 22:05
If I were playing the DOW... I'd certainly used Vespero's vandetta ( skirmich to protect your truthsayers ), and, past 2000... Add a long range weapon... ( Hot Pot Catapult, Bronzino galloper gun... other canons... so you'll be able to progress those pikemen right in the nose of the enemy. Also, don't forget that Pirazzo's Lost legion can hit very hard with pikes AND handguns.

Having a Kislevite contingent would also be nice, as it would allow you to field a lvl 4 magician ( the Tzarina ) in bigger games. Ungol Horse archers are pretty good if you like Kislev...

hope that would help

Red_Lep
20-05-2007, 22:25
They have crossbows and not handguns unfortunately. Kislev look ok but I'm not sure if I like the contingent rules.

Canadian_Khan
20-05-2007, 22:35
even with crossbows, they are still a threat...
That always depend if you want a hard hitting DOW list or a fast moving, harrassing one...

Red_Lep
20-05-2007, 23:00
I was wanting mainly a hard hitting force with lots of Pikemen and some support units.

Canadian_Khan
21-05-2007, 02:27
Than... Leopold Company should also be included... add another regiment of pikemen ( you're now at 3... good enough for 2000 )... one canon... other cool cavalry ( Has someone said Al-Muktar desert dogs? Even Uglah Khan are pretty cool ) and maybe the Cursed company and you have a good little army... IMHO

Sanjuro
21-05-2007, 06:09
I was wanting mainly a hard hitting force with lots of Pikemen and some support units.

Well, that's your problem, right there. I can honestly say from experience that a unit with lots of pikemen just isn't a hard hitting force. There are basically three ways of doing DoW. First, there is the Infantry Force which relies on combined arms and depends a great deal on being able to project power with crossbowmen and cannons. Then there's the Cavalry Condotta, which if course has heavy and light cav for mainstay with supporting skirmishers and missile troops. And lastly, there is the Monster Mash which basically consists of a little of everything - ogres, halflings, slayer pirates, a bunch of the whacky units that people don't often use. No army is clear-cut one of these three, but you can see tendencies in most DoW condottas. I have some experience with the Infantry Force, which I will share some here below.

You need about 2 cannons and 20 or so crossbowmen, coupled with about 20 pistol-armed skirmishers to make this work. Pikemen are an often contented point on this forum - they do suffer from the same fate as HE Spearmen (this is a fact) in that they are ridiculously expensive for their T3, 5+ save. They also are not as good at killing stuff as their special rule would have you believe. Anything with T4 charges you and you are screwed. A bit of armour will also negate your killing power excellently. Basically, they really shine versus T3 infantry with up to a 5+ save. Anything tougher than that (including heavy cavalry, which they cannot handle at all) and they are 11 pts peasants, basically.

When I play my infantry DoW force, I play a points denial game. I have three great blocks of infantry - two of pikes and one of dwarves. I support this with 3 small units of mixed light and heavy cavalry and 3 units of skirmishers with pistols or just extra hand weapons (if I can't find the points for pistols). Then there is the missile contingency - 20 crossbowmen, 10 halflings and 2 cannons. I always deploy in a refused flank with the three infantry regiments together like a brigade. I make sure to anchor BOTH their flanks with rough terrain and/or the table edge. That is very important.

The support units fan out to act as advanced flank guards and to threaten the attack lanes of enemy troops. The missile contingent goes on a refused flank (I always deploy these first). The idea here is to just stay put with the infantry brigade(wherein virtually ALL the juicy VP lie) and bombard the hell out of the enemy with the artillery, missile troops and skirmishers. The halfings are mainly there just for colour - another group of crossbowmen would probably be better, but lets face it, we don't play DoW to be the best - it's all about colour, baby!

Now, versus true gunlines and castling armies, this tactic won't work, but versus most combined arms armies I can force them to advance on me. Taking out the missile contingency on the refused flank means there won't be enough time for the enemy to concentrate an attack on my infantry brigade (which does need a contenctrated attack to be shifted, thanks to the protected flanks). Contenctrating the attack on my infantry brigade means my missile troops will wear the enemy down all the way while they advance (and if I am lucky, they will have to advance diagonally across from the refused flank), perhaps even to the point where they will have trouble shifting my infantry blocks.

Basically, I play for a draw with my DoW infantry, because that is the best I can hope for. I've gotten some minor wins too (and some embarrassing defeats :o ) but they aren't really the type of force to clean house with. They are pretty good for a close game, though.

Now, you need to remember that missile units and template weapons especially absolutely MURDER pikes. One direct hit from a mortar pretty much means that pike unit is completely incapacitated for the rest of the battle. The same with a stone thrower hit. You have to face the fact that every casualty reduces the effectiveness (or the effective potential) of your pikes with a severity that normal ranked infantry with polearms don't suffer until they start to be below half strength. This is due to the strike in 4 ranks rule. Every kill reduces the effect of your pikes exponentially. It would probably be better to just blow 3 special slots on dwarfs and use them as your mainstay ranked units - they are cheaper and more effective at holding the line until flankers arrive. However, if you love pikes like I do, you will probably use them. Something about them just spells Tilea.

Also, stay well clear of all named Regiments of Renown units (except perhaps Voland's Venators). They are much too expensive for what they do. Al Muktars is probably one of the single most overpriced units in the entire game. Also, they are all gimmicks. Use the models to represent vanilla DoW units. I use Al Muktars as regular Light Cav, the Venators as heavy cav, the Republican Guard as Pikemen, Galloper Guns as regular cannons, Slayer Pirates as skirmishers with pistols (they are the worlds fastest and skinniest dwarfs), etc.

Well, some thoughts. Glad to see another DoW Condottieri!

Red_Lep
21-05-2007, 21:11
I never play to win(except against my brother) just to have fun. I realise that the Pikemen are severely overpriced but I personally like them. As far as the RoR, Riccos was the only unit I was wanting and just cause they where 1 point more for WS4 and that(with the different models) would make them really stand out as a main block. Thanks for all the advice :D