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Ianos
22-05-2007, 15:14
Hi everybody,

I started this thread because I would like some serious opinions regarding a warhammer fantasy army selection. I am a dedicated Eldar player in 40k and my tactical skill is appreciated by most of my colleagues (not bragging) and I am saying that to inform you that don’t have to start an easy army for fantasy. Also, my modeling and painting skills are (at least according to what people tell me) above average, so again I wouldn’t mind a difficult army regarding any aspect of the hobby.

So enough with the advantages of my demeanor, lets proceed to what my restrictions would be:
1) I don’t want an army that looks cartooned/comical so no Skaven for example.
2) I would most probably like an army that takes itself seriously.
3) The most important, I want to be able to wipe out units if I play correctly, I hate protracted combat, random effects and giving the enemy the chance to take me down. In 40k when I unload a squad of fire dragons and shoot at any tank, it goes down, period. If I hit a marine squad with my banshees it goes down again in one turn usually. So for example I want an army that has specialist units that can take down the foe if applied correctly or all around units that strike so hard that the enemy breaks-dies with very little chances for that to not happen.
4) If possible I want a lot of mobility, so that I can apply the above principles more effectively.
5) Magic is something I like too, so any spell casting is welcome but not outright necessary.


So enough with me, lets hear your opinions and please give me some actual examples of how I can achieve what I stated above, in the field of battle with the army you propose.

Thanks in advance,

Ianos the Athenian.

E-Dog
22-05-2007, 16:15
As I always say pick the army with the models you like the most as you will be more motivated to paint/convert. Other than that if its one hit wonders you want chaos is your army.
Chosen knights are just sick, give them the mark of Khorne and they are disgusting. They break most units on the charge and they can take a charge too. I've had them charged by empire knights, they did a wound or two my knights did like 4, empire knights charged me and broke..Ha ha. Dragon ogres with great weapons(str.7) are just sick also, not many units can stand up to them, and the list goes on... Anyway the dark gods are calling, good luck!

Lathaine
22-05-2007, 16:18
Hmmm there are two armies that come to mind that fit in with those restrictions: Wood elves and Bretonnians.

Both armies are fairly mobile in their own way with Brets having a very long movement and charge range along with the ability to take fast cav and pegasus knights to further beef up your movement phase dominance. The wood elves have a fairly good movement speed as an army and are excellent at using terrain to and their move and shoot without penalty rule and preponderance of fast cav/skirmishers to get the most out of their movement.

Both armies can utterly destroy a unit if you coordinate an attack on it. However, the Wood elves are a far more tactically diverse army and need combined charges to break units since a single Wood elf unit is unlikely to cause the casualties or have the CR to break a solid ranked infantry unit. This means you can show off more with them, but also screw up more. Brets on the other hand can actually just charge in head long with a solid lance, or two against hammer units, and wipe out the opponent in a flurry of attacks compounded by high static CR. Although an MSU knight army can be attempted if you want more versatility but Brets can get stereotyped as a point and click army given they only need to get to the opponent to win most of the time.

Neither army is terribly adept at magic but the wood elves can definitely hold their own in the magic phase. The Brets are sub par on magic offense but can hold their own om magic phase defense. Oh, and both armies take themselves fairly seriously although the Brets can be themed in a more Monte Python style by some players but this is decidedly rare and neither army looks cartoonish and if you dislike knights in a panoply of colors you could always paint up Brets covered in mud, snow, or having a worn look to them.

Other than those two I can think of only one other army you may be interested in: Chaos. They have average mobility, have an incredibly hard hitting power, and can be tooled to have a good magic phase. An all rounder elite army in many ways. They also take themselves seriously but IMO Slaneesh can fall into cartoonish evil category sometimes.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
22-05-2007, 16:34
Hi everybody,

I started this thread because I would like some serious opinions regarding a warhammer fantasy army selection.
That's a change. :D
I am a dedicated Eldar player in 40k and my tactical skill is appreciated by most of my colleagues (not bragging) and I am saying that to inform you that don’t have to start an easy army for fantasy.
sorry, did you say dark elves?
Also, my modeling and painting skills are (at least according to what people tell me) above average, so again I wouldn’t mind a difficult army regarding any aspect of the hobby.

So enough with the advantages of my demeanor, lets proceed to what my restrictions would be:
1) I don’t want an army that looks cartooned/comical so no Skaven for example.
2) I would most probably like an army that takes itself seriously.
Well that rules orcs out
Elves take themselves, probably too seriously
3) The most important, I want to be able to wipe out units if I play correctly,elves need that kind of thinking, because if you make mistakes, then you're done for I hate protracted combat, random effects and giving the enemy the chance to take me down. dark elves have knights that have steeds with stupidity that sometimes allows the enemy to sometimes hit you while you're confused or mess up your tacticsIn 40k when I unload a squad of fire dragons and shoot at any tank, it goes down, period. If I hit a marine squad with my banshees it goes down again in one turn usually. So for example I want an army that has specialist units that can take down the foe if applied correctly or all around units that strike so hard that the enemy breaks-dies with very little chances for that to not happen. dark elves have 3 specialised elite infantry block units and even more skirmishers that are all suited to doing their job well.
4) If possible I want a lot of mobility, so that I can apply the above principles more effectively.dark elves' dark riders are said to be the best fast cavalry in the game, wood elves are also very mobile
5) Magic is something I like too, so any spell casting is welcome but not outright necessary. Again dark elves fit, they have good magic, but you certainly dont need it to win a battle.


So enough with me, lets hear your opinions and please give me some actual examples of how I can achieve what I stated above, in the field of battle with the army you propose.

Thanks in advance,

Ianos the Athenian.

Got to admit, my advice is limited but I honestly believe dark elves, or elves in some form, fit what you want perfectly.
hope this helps

Lander
22-05-2007, 16:50
Id say the Brets.

redbaron998
22-05-2007, 17:16
I to am a Eldar Army, (as well as DH). From what you are saying dont go with Khorne (its just like Khorne in 40k) From what you say I would say for hard hitting for Brets, for Tactically go Wood Elves. But High Elves are just about to come out and I would say they fit your MO

Spartan-001: Master Chief
22-05-2007, 17:19
Night goblins will rule the world ' evil laugh' . Night goblins are a really fun army to playwith

Rightnow
22-05-2007, 19:22
Bretonnians for sure. 11 Grail Knights with a lord will blow through anything in the game that isn't stubborn or unbreakable. Period.

Bretonnians are not about protracted combat and take themselves very seriously. Just take 3-4 lances of 12 knights with some yeomen to help with charges and you are all set. You can blow through most units.

The other viable option is a Khorne army. Khrone-gors, Khrone marked minotaurs, and Ogre-Dragons can whip the dog crud out of most units. I'd stay away from the warriors as they are overpriced. Khrone knights are OK, but lose to 12 Grail knights every time.

theunwantedbeing
22-05-2007, 20:31
Hmmm an eldar player.....

Well lots of armies can do what your wanting to do.
Your best just taking an army that you would like to paint and turning it into something like what you want it to play like,and dont be so worried about winning much.

Removing a unit is as much to do with sheer brute force and weight of attacks as to the direction of your charges and the placement of your units.

Sneaky Gitz
22-05-2007, 23:24
You should play Orcs and Goblins. They are pretty much everything you want. In the hands of a pro they can wipe out armies by turn 2. Almost always the top army in GTs.

Or play somthing lame like those woodies and brets...

Kavu
23-05-2007, 07:34
From what you want I'd say wood elves and brets.

The brettonians are fast hard hitting and devastating on charge. however the game will tend to be very similair move, charge, destroy, win!

Wood elves are more mobile have a lot of specialist troops and can be devastating, however their lack of high strength firepower and block troops means you are really going to make every point count!

Both armies are very challenging and potentially deadly with the wood elves playing closer to eldar in my opinion.

That said the high elves are 6 months away from coming out and are showing potential. They should hopefully be more diverse than wood elves or brets and will be more powerful in the magic phase. however you have to wait and see!

forgottenlor
23-05-2007, 08:15
I would say elves or tomb kings. They both require a lot of tactics and correct play. They are also both very reliable.

Ianos
23-05-2007, 08:35
Wow! Very nice replies by everyone, and they generally fall into place with what I already seem to like. So we have “narrowed” it down to:
1) Chaos (most likely Khorne), I like chaos models and I was always tempted to join the Dark Gods, but the Eldar within me always poses strong resistance.
2) Dark Elves, specialist troops fairly mobile also incredible models over all, those executioners are probably the best models I have ever seen! The only problem being that if I am going to add cavalry it will have stupidity and I simply cannot have that. So if I start DE it’s going to be all infantry (which is somewhat restricting).
3) Wood Elves, I like shooting and using melee to block the enemy and I could like the models if they where not green (I’d have to paint them black or brown) however they do not seem to be “hard hitters” that is killing with one blow, but I wouldn’t say no if it can be done.
4) Brettonians, a friend of mine has Brets and keeps telling me: “John, its either Brets or High Elves for you, but I suggest Brets”, they indeed have charge killers and tons of cavalry which I love. The models are decent but I don’t feel incredibly drawn (maybe it’s the 100 color fanfare…), but they always seem to get stuck in the end, you know they charge and everything but in the end the enemy is overwhelming or uses tons of magic and stops them.
5) High Elves, model wise, it is what I am really inclined to except for those pesky archers (generally most footmen need an overhaul, but the archers are IMHO the worst model ever). I really like their cavalry but they don’t seem like they can wipe out units e.g. so yeah I charge with 10 silver helms with lances and all and kill 3 orks!:wtf:, they just don’t seem to cut it you know? But I am hearing they are going to be much better with the new army book so, I don’t know maybe I should wait.

So anyways that’s my observations up to now, any further advice are welcome!

Cheers and thanks a lot! :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
23-05-2007, 08:46
I play Dark Elves all infantry, because as you said, stupid cavalry is a no go. And between the infantry, light cavalry and the monsters it's actually a pretty good army, and it doesn't really feel restrictive. If you really want some heavy cavalry, there is always the option for DoW.

Altewrnativly, you can play a Cult of Pleasure, they get to mix some of the DE and Chaos units, plenty of hard hitting power in that army.

The other elf armies might also work for you. Wood Elves is roughly the equivelent of a harlequin army. They might not look it, but they are very hard hitting in close combat, if you use them right.

High Elves is gettinga new book soonish, and I imagine that they will be somewhat more hard hitting after that, but they should also do the trick.

The only thing to remember is that most elven units needs to cooporate to perform to there best. You have the speed and the skilled troops to do it, but it's so much easier if you can flank something while hitting it in the front too.

Franco
23-05-2007, 12:11
Well Going in order-

Beasts of Chaos - Don't think they are your style, they have a few cartoony mini's!!!
Bretonnia - They could be the ones for you. Look good and would test your above average painting skills. I've never battled against them but they would be a good army to battle with!!!
Dark Elves - Take themselves seriously and would be an ok army to use, but lacking in variety!!!
Dwarfs - Surprised no one has mentioned these yet because they are no mugs. They are a cheap army to buy with most of them being plastic and they are good at battling!!!
Empire - Don't know anything about these exept they are good at gunline, I found out the hard way!!!
High Elves - Need upgrading so dont bother with them!!!
Hordes of Chaos - Well they are abit weird!!!
Lizardmen - Again, i am suprised they haven't been mentioned. They are good at magic (from what i have told) and are good looking, but can be boring aswell!!!
Ogre Kingdoms - They are a quick army to build and are strong in battle. But that is all!!!
Orcs and Goblins - A fun army, not serious. That cancels them out!!!
Skaven - Like you said, so no!!!
Tomb Kings - Well, i cant conquer them with O&G but that might be because the guy is good, Nice army and i like the deserty thing, but do you???
Vampire Counts - NO!!!!!!
Wood Elves - Good Looking and tactical. Might be ones for you!!!

Don't know what army you should have but hope i have helped!!!

Lander
23-05-2007, 13:20
The thing with Dwarfs is he wants speed. For someone who likes Eldar the Bretons are very similar, Wood elves do more shooting unless your a Forest Spirt fan.

Nineswords
23-05-2007, 13:47
I would plump for Dark Elves. Having my own DE army, they are a challenging army to play with but good players are rewarded with crushing the enemy under a steel boot. In addition, they are one of the more 'serious' armies in the game and the models for troop types such as the Corsairs, Black Guard and the Witch Elves are excellent. Tactically, they have the classic hammer and anvil themes to MSU/MSE, and thematically ranging from scouting forces to beastlord armies, corsairs or armies dedicated to Khaine! Hurrah!

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
23-05-2007, 16:25
remember dark elves have 2 cavalry units. Only one of them is stupid. So why restrict yourself to all infantry? and also the cold ones usually go stupid only once a game so it's not that much of a big deal.
dark riders are the opposite of what you are afraid of, they are very fast and mobile, and dont have any rules like stupidity or frenzy that the enemy can take advantage on.

Franco
23-05-2007, 17:03
remember dark elves have 2 cavalry units. Only one of them is stupid. So why restrict yourself to all infantry? and also the cold ones usually go stupid only once a game so it's not that much of a big deal.
dark riders are the opposite of what you are afraid of, they are very fast and mobile, and dont have any rules like stupidity or frenzy that the enemy can take advantage on.
Yes, Dark elves are a good option. COK are still great in a bunch of 5 or even 10. Stupid doesn't happen much, well against me anyway!!!

Cpt_NinjaPants
23-05-2007, 17:31
Wow, you descibed WE quite well their. So, is that's all you want, WE are you're peeps.

Gorbad Ironclaw
23-05-2007, 19:11
remember dark elves have 2 cavalry units. Only one of them is stupid. So why restrict yourself to all infantry? and also the cold ones usually go stupid only once a game so it's not that much of a big deal.



Your right, it's only likely to cost you the game occasionally. Hell, I lost to a single chariot going stupid at the wrong time before. Not that other tihngs can't mess up the game for you, but unless you want it, there is no reason to make it worse.

Personally stupidity annoys me to no ends, and I just won't use stupid units. They obviously works for others, so thats fine. But I can perfectly well understand why someone wouldn't want to use them.

Lathaine
24-05-2007, 01:38
Well with what you are saying. I will go ahead and agree with your friend that its either cav heavy HE or Brets for you from what I'm hearing. However, as has been said if you are considering HE you should wait till October/November when the new army book comes out. Although you can smash units with HE cav just send in a unit with the banner that gives +1d6 CR and watch the carnage, or you could equip a Prince on Dragon or Griphon. Though, elves still tend to rely on getting some cav to your enemy's flank usually to win if you don't go character heavy.

As for your comments about Brets, well you don't have to go the million color panoply if you don't want to. I have seen Bret armies painted in regimental colors, I have seen Bret armies painted in very dark colors, and there's always what this guy did:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/bretonnia/chris-oliver-showcase/1/

As for play style. They are highly mobile, highly survivable and hit like a ton of bricks. Able to break units with frontal charges with little to no support. They also have decent support units with skirmishing archers, trebuchets, grail pilgrims, fast cav, and pegasus knights. If you love heavy cav, this is the main heavy cav army of warhammer fantasy. As for your gets stuck and loses statement, I find that odd. Having played Brets since the 6th edition army book came out I have to say that I almost never get stuck after charging and if you bring some scroll caddies magic will not be a problem until after you've wiped out most of your opponent's army. The trick is to use your support units to destroy your enemy's support units and use your cav against his heavy hitters while maneuvering to rob your enemy of a way to launch a proper counteroffensive. Last but not least make sure you hit a tough unit with enough forces to guarantee a win, maybe two full lances at once if need be.

Now seeing that you are having trouble deciding on a specific army. I'll give you some advice. Narrow your search to 2-3 armies then buy their respective books or borrow them from friends. Then let someone lend you some models to use for proxy battles as you test out each army in a battle or two. Get to know each army's options, strengths, playing style, and weaknesses and decide which one fits you the most after that.

Happy gaming and have fun

Ianos
24-05-2007, 09:20
Thanks for the help, i think its HE or Brets too with the possibility of DE a little slimmer. I 'll try playing with them in the local store and see what fits my style. As for minies i am more inclined towards Elven ones, so maybe i should indeed wait for the HE release to see what happens with them too.

I think its time to play some games and see how it goes!:)

Falcon
24-05-2007, 16:35
It still sounds to me as if you'll enjoy a forest spirit wood elf army. Fast moving, tactically challenging, but with the ability to take a unit out in a single roud.

Brets are great too, make no mistake, but their strategic options are a bit more limited. Close to one dimensional almost ... :angel: Their strategy is to charge, fulstop. (And if you choose them, prepare for a LOT of detail painting if you want to have a nice army.)

(I have WE's, Brets and Lizzies armies. Perhaps you need more than one army as well, just for those days when you are in the mood for something else.)

The Lizzies are a tough crowd as well, but more of the get 'stuck in combat and rip them to shreds over 1.5 rounds' type.)

jimthegray
24-05-2007, 16:59
You should play Orcs and Goblins. They are pretty much everything you want. In the hands of a pro they can wipe out armies by turn 2. Almost always the top army in GTs.

Or play somthing lame like those woodies and brets...

i like orcs, but he said nothing silly and take themselves serious and thats not orcs :)

kainthedragoonx
24-05-2007, 17:54
I have to agree with the Forest Spirit army, or Beast of Chaos list. Tactically challenging, and will require a lot of work on the player's part.

Actually I would recommend Wood Elves over the Beast because of the way Beast got hurt with the fact that enemy units stop Skirmishers from marching.