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View Full Version : So who is the most "secure" civilization in 40k



Duskraven
22-05-2007, 14:41
In keeping with my last topic, who is the most secure or powerful civilization in 40k?

my bet is probably the 'nids or the necron, both infinitely old and powerful.

SwordsofChaos
22-05-2007, 14:45
IŽd say the orks, they are all but impossible to wipe out. Even the Necrons and the C'tan failed to wipe them out at the height of their might (admittedly they had brain boyz and a new codex back then).

Arhalien
22-05-2007, 14:47
From my limited knowledge I'd say the Tau; they're expanding agreesivly and successfully and don;t seem to have any great threat to their Empire.

Of course I know nothing and I'm just assuming this ;)

Peril
22-05-2007, 14:53
Tau? err, no. They don't have warp flight capabilities and only exist because they are too far on the edge of the Imperium to generate a significant response. I like the Tau really, but this is the truth of their situation.

The Necrons? Maybe at one point, but since most are slumbering I would say no, at least not yet. If Void Dragon awakens ... we can talk.

I would have to say Orks or Nids. You cannot really ever truly wipe out the Orks and their "civiization" doesn't require much to function.

The Nids ... well no one really knows how far down THAT rabbit hole goes.

Bunnahabhain
22-05-2007, 15:13
Chaos, assuming they count as a civilization.

Things are corrupted into chaos, and there they stay, making it more and more powerful with every planet that falls.

Kerflunc
22-05-2007, 15:13
some may think i'm wrong but i would say the imperium. they have survived for 10000years and still going strong. sure they lose planets daily but they just have so many. also the tau aren't the most likely as the most secure because when the imperium finally did something to stop their expansion(democles gulf crusade) they got beat pretty bad almost losing one of their main world and orks probable not they are just to unstable.

superknijn
22-05-2007, 15:16
I thought that they stopped having a great time after Slaanesh crashed the party ;)

Ork empires are always under threat of neigbouring Ork empires, not to mention the rest. The Tau themselves can be beaten if they get much bigger, and would almost surely have been if the Tyranids didn't lure away the Imperium. The Eldar are holding out, but barely, and lose sigificantly at times. The Imperium is beset from all directions by enemies, and is generally on the decline. Chaos is in it's very nature not secure.

In the 40th millenium, you are never secure; even in such places as Ultramar or Terra there is danger lurking near.

The_Dragon_Rising
22-05-2007, 15:17
Orks- they are ridiculously hard to get rid of, they populate extremely quickly and as has been said a number of times are powerful enough that if they banded together could take over everything

The Song of Spears
22-05-2007, 15:48
Yeah I agree, orks. Even if they are warring with themselves and everyone else, they LOVE that. War is and orks security blanket.

Even once the Tyranids wipe them out, and they will, the orks will die with a grin (or at least a iron gob painted to look like a grin)

chivalrous
22-05-2007, 15:50
Tyranids are likely the most secure species (even that term is wrong) in the galaxy but I wouldn't call them a civilisation. Civilisation as far as I'm aware requires a culture, individual self awareness as well and a social identity and the Tyranids have neither of these.
Is a termite hive a civilisation? is an ants' nest?

Necrons too are no longer a civilisation. while the bodies remain, they are (in the current background) little more than mindless automotons with no self identity.

As it is, I think Orks are the most secure civilisation. While it is possible to uproot any one ork society, there's always another one out there and while there may be tribal differences, the fundamentals of Ork civilisation are the same.

Chaos could possibly come after or possibly above Orks, depending on how vast the daemonic civilisation inside the warp is or if there even is a civilisation inside the warp.

Darnok
22-05-2007, 15:58
Orks, because they live exactly the way they are meant to do: they live in constant warfare. And they enjoy it. So who are we to look down at them? ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
22-05-2007, 16:08
some may think i'm wrong but i would say the imperium. they have survived for 10000years and still going strong. sure they lose planets daily but they just have so many. also the tau aren't the most likely as the most secure because when the imperium finally did something to stop their expansion(democles gulf crusade) they got beat pretty bad almost losing one of their main world and orks probable not they are just to unstable.

Orks have survived for over 65 million years, have the largest number of planets under their control, and the most troops by an order of magnitute. Not only that, they can populate planets by simply throwing their spores at them (fire a dead Ork arm at a planet, you get Orks there later on), have an inbuilt caste system, and live for war. Nothing and nobody can stop the Orks. Its a pitty they don't suit 40k (But they do Epic) or I would play them.

Thanatos_elNyx
22-05-2007, 16:22
I would argue that Necrons are the most secure, but as for the arguement that they aren't a civilisation, I would say that though the Necrontyr Civilisation was destroyed, it birthed a new civilisation and the Necrons are it.

Of course it depends on your definition of civilization.

FireN.Brimstone
22-05-2007, 16:29
I'd say the Imperium or Eldar are tied, becuase these are the only civilizations where an indiviual can live a long and happy life without war.

jfrazell
22-05-2007, 16:31
Eldar !!! because i play as Eldar.

Eldar. Worse to worse they all climb into the webway. Safety assured.

Orks. They are innummerable. As noted they have outlasted everything except the eldar for 65,000,000 years. We have yet to see a major threat to them, indeed that may be the rallying cry of orkdom (it may be in their nature to rally in a galactic waugh against a true threat- we don't know as they've never had one). Once again orks save the universe.

Nids. We don't know how big they are. There is supposition of a wave of incredible size, but in fact the galaxy may have already experienced that wave, or it may peak soon enough.

Necrons. Like the dinosaurs they had their chance and nature selected them out ;)

Tau regional player, one among many, which to me actually makes them special.

Adra
22-05-2007, 16:40
No such thing as a secure civilisation of chaos...by their nature they reject order. Is Chaos not change? Security implies stagnation to Chaos.

I hate to agree with everyone but ur right..Ork...Ork ork ork...ok they dont have alot of culture....but its enough. just because they live their lives through war does not mean they dont have stability of a kind.

Slaaneshi Slave
22-05-2007, 16:46
How can the Tau be considered secure? They are only a few years old, and have faced no real threats. How can they be judged?


No such thing as a secure civilisation of chaos...by their nature they reject order. Is Chaos not change? Security implies stagnation to Chaos.

Chaos means order to random events. Hence Chaos Theory (butterly flapping its wings one side of the planet causing wind storms on the other). Chaos has order. Its very name implies as much.

Brother Alecium
22-05-2007, 16:53
I don't really think there can be any civilization in the 40K universe that is "secure." It is kind of hard to make anything safe and secure for anyone when the entire galaxy and all of it's different races are constantly at war.

The Orks are constantly fighting even amongst them selves, and they don't really build a civilization as we know it.

Chaos is just as unstable as the Legions fight one another as much as they fight the Imperium of Man.

Tyranids are constantly moving and fighting consuming everything that they are able to destroy.

Necrons are seeking to destroy everything in the universe not build a safe happy place for their race.

Eldar can't figure out how to save their own race.

Tau even though they have a small "empire"(if you can call it that)they are still vulnerable from a massed attack. If a major threat posed a threat to the Tau they would not be able to hold it back and would have no way to escape due to the lack of Warp Engines.

The Imperium obviously is constantly undersiege from every direction from every different race at any given time. Their armies have been on the brink of faltering for 10000 years and allowing the Imperium to fall.

The Song of Spears
22-05-2007, 16:57
Orks have survived for over 65 million years, have the largest number of planets under their control, and the most troops by an order of magnitute. Not only that, they can populate planets by simply throwing their spores at them (fire a dead Ork arm at a planet, you get Orks there later on), have an inbuilt caste system, and live for war. Nothing and nobody can stop the Orks. Its a pitty they don't suit 40k (But they do Epic) or I would play them.

Ha! Nids will rule all (well, maybe eat all is better way of putting it...) While orks can spore populate a planet, the planet has to be able to support spore life.

A planets successfully defeated by the nids is strip mined to the point of being a barren lifeless rock with not even basic elements for spore life such as water or life sustaining gases left. If the orks don't unite and kill off the nids (very unlikely) the nids will eat /assimilate them all and then finish off the foolish Imperium who provided the orky snack.

But i agree, nids are not a civilization, so i still think the orks are most secure, even if they are doomed and dying in battle.

Adra
22-05-2007, 17:05
Chaos means order to random events. Hence Chaos Theory (butterly flapping its wings one side of the planet causing wind storms on the other). Chaos has order. Its very name implies as much.

No Chaos does not mean order in random events. Chaos (n.) a state of extreme confusion and disorder. Now, Chaos theory is about order through random events...but thats just a name...has no bearing on the word Chaos as a whole. I understand what your getting at though....



But i agree, nids are not a civilization, so i still think the orks are most secure, even if they are doomed and dying in battle.

There are always more orks.... :)

Earl_UK
22-05-2007, 17:48
IMO:

Eldar, to self obsessed in there own fall.

Empire will colapse when the emperor finaly looses is control over what is left of his spirt. possibly turn chotic, if not already tainted with chaos.

Necrons actually will destroy them sleves if they destroy all other life as they then slip off back to sleep.

Tau, will probably get chomped at some point or just fizzle out.

Chaos, does not really exisit if other life does not, so is dependant on others.

Orcs, just survive the galatic cockroach.

Nids, after all the food is gone do they then eat themsleves?

my money is on Orcs just been there in some form or another but i wouldnt call it civilization, more like an existance.

Rogue 7
22-05-2007, 17:54
I would argue that Necrons are the most secure, but as for the arguement that they aren't a civilisation, I would say that though the Necrontyr Civilisation was destroyed, it birthed a new civilisation and the Necrons are it.

Of course it depends on your definition of civilization.

Haven't the Deathwatch destroyed several tomb worlds? I know I've heard that bandied about online somewhere.

t-tauri
22-05-2007, 18:21
A number of spam posts removed. This thread moved to 40k background.

BarbedHawk
22-05-2007, 19:35
IMO:

Eldar, to self obsessed in there own fall.

Empire will colapse when the emperor finaly looses is control over what is left of his spirt. possibly turn chotic, if not already tainted with chaos.

Necrons actually will destroy them sleves if they destroy all other life as they then slip off back to sleep.

Tau, will probably get chomped at some point or just fizzle out.

Chaos, does not really exisit if other life does not, so is dependant on others.

Orcs, just survive the galatic cockroach.

Nids, after all the food is gone do they then eat themsleves?

my money is on Orcs just been there in some form or another but i wouldnt call it civilization, more like an existance.

The Nids will move on to another Galaxy if they manage to consume all life in this galaxy. Tau; well...I don't know. If they're given a little time and continue progressing this fast, they could do well. However, if a major threat challenges them, I expect they'll fall fairly easily.

If the Emperor does manage to finally kick the bucket, then I reckon the Imperium will fall into the state it was before the Great Crusade. I think the Emperor provides most power to the Psykers and Navigators, (I think), so if that's true most Warp travel and protection against Daemons is gone. Some worlds may survive, and the remnants of humanity could become similar to the Eldar in the way that they're on the brink of extinction, or they'll just die out.

Although Orks are probably the greatest hope against all the major, major threats, it's still a mystery whether they'll be able to pull together when their destiny calls. Despite this, if Chaos can be called a civilisation, they're the most secure. With protection from other enemies in the Eye, their safe. Even if there is infighting, there's always a winner, right? So Chaos survives! :D

Daeus
22-05-2007, 22:05
Orks aren't a civilisation. A civilisation is a society in an advanced state of social development, not Orks at all. They are anything but civil.

Tyranids and Necrons don't count, as they are both little more than living machines.

Chaos Legions are armies, and Chaos itself is disorder and so the opposite to civilisation.

The Imperium, Tau Empire, Eldar and Dark Eldar are the only things that are close to civilisations. Now, how do we define secure? Since the Eldar are a dying race under attack by a god, they can be struck off. If we take it as least likely to be destroyed by outside forces, that would be the Dark Eldar, who are essentially impervious to significant attack, however without Vect all the despots and despotesses at Commorragh aren't going to hold an election are they? The least likely to be destroyed from within is the Tau, for now, because to my knowledge they still outnumber the other races in their empire who can disobey the Ethereals.

I'd have to say the Imperium. Sure, its inches from a collapse, but its the only civilisation strong enough to survive and be able to put itself back together again.

Slaaneshi Slave
22-05-2007, 22:13
Orks have a strong social system, with a worker, leader, warrior, medical and mechanical caste. They have hugely advanced technology, including such wonders as teleportation devices, weapon which render matter apart (power claws), and tractor beams. And they are actually the most content civilisation in the galaxy.

If Aztecs were a civilisation (and they were), then Orks are too.

Darnok
22-05-2007, 22:20
Orks aren't a civilisation. A civilisation is a society in an advanced state of social development, not Orks at all. They are anything but civil.

You should actually have a look at the background of the Orks. Slaaneshi Slave pointed it already out. Orks are in some ways much more civilised then the Imperium.

Adra
22-05-2007, 22:21
Just cos they fight alot does not make them civil :)

Bob-stefanio
22-05-2007, 22:54
i will have to say the orks man there are so many and as has been stated in many a white dwarf or fiction. "if ever the orks all banded together there would be to many for all other armies to stop they would simply whipe everyone else out" The orks are never going to die out there a race fuled on war if everyone started going hippie and not fighting they just trive fighting each other at least thats my opinion. Orks will never die out! (ps im a sm player i hate them greenskins)

Morris
22-05-2007, 23:58
Most POwerful are Orks. IF all the Orks decided to work together they could take the whole galaxy. It is the absoloute stupidity of half of them that keeps them in check.

Most secure is any in the periphery. No eldar bother raiding, No Imperium hence no Chaos or Orks and the Nids probably don't care that you are there.

samiens
23-05-2007, 01:18
Ha! Secure doesn't mean powerful...anyway its Dark Eldar, who can even find Camorragh anyway? Wh'd want to? That's security...

Asi the Red
23-05-2007, 01:36
Hey ya'.

My bet for most secure civilization is Dark Eldar.
They come out when they want to, they go back when they want to, no-one else can really get to them (ok Eldar could, but if they were going to they would have done it long ago). Sure if you're Bob the Dark Eldar your personal safety might not be so good, but your culture as a whole isn't going anywhere.

ChaosTicket
23-05-2007, 01:37
Cammorogh can only be found through the webway, so only other Eldar and if Chaos gets a "BIG" victory can they be attacked. At the same time though Cammorogh is only one large city that is home to 90% of the Dark eldar, so it's secure, but weak.

Orks are a great race. They are hardy, have a grasp of technology almost equal to the artificers of the Imperium, though much cruder. They have equal numbers to even the Tyranids and Humans. They can scavenege nearly any vehicles, even some Tau and Eldar ones, but it's unlikely that they'll have many of that calibre.

Humans are the least secure. In all fluff and army backgrounds, they have to gather in huge droves to attack enemies and defend. Normally they mix and match chaptersand regiments ensuring that there is versatility, but lacking any real specialisation. For example, most chapters have less than 200 assault marines out of the 200 battle-brothers. Ork warbands can get 800+ stormboyz with little difficulty. Combine warbands of stormboyz, speed freaks, artillery, fighta-bomberz, and battle fortresses and they are nearly unstoppable.

I can't wait until a new Ork Codex Comes out.

Tanith Ghost
23-05-2007, 01:40
A harlequin with a world class grudge and the deathwatch kill-team he leads to the gates with a vrius bomb or three in hand. Webway or not, I doubt there'd be much of a city left standing if a few of those suckers went off
in the webway.


Anyways, I say orks. Like the Hulk, the more you beat on em, the bigger and madder they get.

The Imperium also stand a good chance- everyone's had a shot at them.
Waaghs, black crusades, hive fleets and worse. And The Imperium is still standing long after Behemoth was culled, Ghazkul put to flight, and Abbadon turned back at the Cadian Gate yet again.

With the necrons and nid apocolyses closing in, this may change. But humans are not known for giving up. To anyone or anything.
Let them come. In ten thosand years, our enemies could not wipe us out.
Ten thousand years down the road, the Imperium will still be fighting off
the galactic dogpile.

Ashnari Doomsong
23-05-2007, 07:23
Harlequins? Fighting Dark Eldar? Ain't gonna happen. Harlies see themselves as a unifying factor within the Eldar, and they aren't gonna help anyone kill off one of the factions.

Blutrache
23-05-2007, 08:02
Orks are hardy no question about that, but remember the tyranid fluff where there is speculation that the increasing number of waaghs into imperial space is because of the tyranids driving the orks before them. And even ork spores find it hard to live on dead systems without biomass.
I'd say that the safest way is the most dangerous. Embrace the warp and join chaos! If you make it to daemonhood your immortal and have the gods on your side. Not much can beat that. My guess would be that the warp forces are slowly gnawing their way into the material universe. And as the chaos gods presence grows larger and larger they'll eventuallly wipe the floor with all the inhabitants of the material universe. After all the warp is a sort of whole universe of its own, whereas the 40k races and setting we're discussing is just a galaxy. And the difference in magnitude between a universe and a galaxy is ridiculously large.

/Cheers

Colonel Jacka
23-05-2007, 09:10
My money is on the Imperium. In there neck of the universe that is. The rest are only just getting by or are also rans.

Morris
23-05-2007, 09:12
I forgot about the Dark Eldar. I agree that they must be the most secure race. To be honest it would take a LOT of Chaos to take Commoragh... a LOT of Chaos. I think it would be ignorant to think the city isn't defended. For one it has almost never actually been found and any poor sod who has found it and by some miracle returned has been insane beyond all recognition.

Duskraven
23-05-2007, 11:07
Ok sorry about the whole civilization thing, i didn't really know how to refer to all the different factions in the 40k universe when i typed it up. What i actually was thinking was which faction in 40k is the most powerful/most likely to survive.

Mr_Smiley
23-05-2007, 12:49
I would say Tyranids and Necrons, then Orks, Orks put up a hell of a fight and there are a lot of them, a real lot of them, same goes for Tyranids, Necrons are very secure as if worst comes to worse they can just hibernate again.

plasticfrog
23-05-2007, 13:25
Necrons. In the grand galaxy, the Necrons have the unbeatable technology and Gods that actually walk the battlefield. (Though in game terms they die rather often). And they are unkillable. And they are only just awakening.

Tyranids. Close second. Most of the fluff points towards a gigantic united locust plague that has devoured other galaxies and has come for its next meal. Unless they fall apart a la Starcraft style- where cerebrates (or equivalent of) start fighting each other- no faction, except possibly the Necrons, will be able to defeat them.

Slaaneshi Slave
23-05-2007, 16:01
Orks stand a pretty good chance of beating Tyranids.

Thanatos_elNyx
23-05-2007, 16:10
Necrons. Like the dinosaurs they had their chance and nature selected them out ;)

Yes but the C'Tan (Nature as you call it) chose them for immortality

BarbedHawk
23-05-2007, 16:40
Thinking about it, all the races are secure. Why? Because GW only creates races, it doesn't remove them. After all, why would they want to lose more money? :p

But, I suppose the Imperium is the most secure at the moment, if Chaos is out of the question. They can recover much more quickly than many of the other races, and can take greater blows too. One swift, powerful blow to the Eldar would take them out, however stelathy and sneaky like they are. As I said, the Orks are just as secure, but the Great crusades proved that if a large, powerful force were to focus on them, they would be in a difficult position. The Tau haven't had any real tests to face compared to the older races, and have begun to play with the big boys without any real experience of the Galactic war. This alone means they would stand little chance if one of the powerful races turned their attentions to them. The Dark Eldar, although secure, could be taken out if their homeworld was attacked, as most of their population is focused in a small area instead of many worlds. The Tyranids don't really count as a civilisation, and the Necrons are slightly vulnurable as many are still asleep. Should more awaken, the galaxy stands little chance. The Necrons have sucked the galaxy dry before, what's to stop them doing it again? Even if the Tyranids fought them, I expect with the Necrons stripping life bare and the Tyranids consuming whole planets, not much would be left whoever won the battle.

Kulgur
23-05-2007, 17:02
Thinking about it, all the races are secure. Why? Because GW only creates races, it doesn't remove them. After all, why would they want to lose more money? :p

Squats.

As to who's most secure, Dark Eldar closely followed by Orks

BarbedHawk
23-05-2007, 17:07
Forgot the little buggers. :p

Alright, I'll correct myself. GW only removes races with a light hearted feel to them.

El_Machinae
23-05-2007, 17:56
I think it's mostly a question of 'nids vs. orks. It seems to me that the orks only have a limited amount of time after conquering a planet before they can use that planet to project power elsewhere. After conquering a planet, they need to use the resources of the planet to create spaceships in order to migrate elsewhere. Once these resources are depleted, then piling orks onto a spaceship is no longer possible.

And orks naturally consume non-renewables as a function of their lifestyles (just like modern day humans). If they use up all their promethium making fast battle-bikes (with which to war against each other), then they can't use that fuel to get to orbit to construct a spaceship. Once all the resources are gone, the ork planet devolves into never-ending low-tech ork wars.

Many times the orks conquer a planet through attrition. They wear down the opponent, because the opponent has to devote more and more resources to combatting the ever-spawning orks.

If we compare that to the 'nids: if the 'nids conquer a planet, they then easily mobilise all the biomass back into space.

Ktotwf
23-05-2007, 18:54
Humanity, because they have the unlimited manpower of the Orks and 'Nids, combined with Psychic power and technology. They have taken everyone on and survived so far.

Although...the Orks aren't going anywhere.

Slaaneshi Slave
23-05-2007, 19:42
Squats.

As to who's most secure, Dark Eldar closely followed by Orks

Zoats, Beastmen.

jfrazell
23-05-2007, 20:04
I think it's mostly a question of 'nids vs. orks. It seems to me that the orks only have a limited amount of time after conquering a planet before they can use that planet to project power elsewhere. After conquering a planet, they need to use the resources of the planet to create spaceships in order to migrate elsewhere. Once these resources are depleted, then piling orks onto a spaceship is no longer possible.

And orks naturally consume non-renewables as a function of their lifestyles (just like modern day humans). If they use up all their promethium making fast battle-bikes (with which to war against each other), then they can't use that fuel to get to orbit to construct a spaceship. Once all the resources are gone, the ork planet devolves into never-ending low-tech ork wars.

Many times the orks conquer a planet through attrition. They wear down the opponent, because the opponent has to devote more and more resources to combatting the ever-spawning orks.

If we compare that to the 'nids: if the 'nids conquer a planet, they then easily mobilise all the biomass back into space.


Of course there are masive orders of magnitutde more of inorganic resources then biomass in the universe...

Bregalad
23-05-2007, 20:23
I do not quite understand the question.
Necrons may be old, but I would not like to live as one.
The human Imperium is big and strong, but many hive worlders live a miserable and short life, others live in prosperity, so it depends.
Tyranids mostly have a short life span and end in a digestion pool, if they outlived their purpose, having no free will.
Ork society is very brutal and life there is definitely not "secure".
Eldar are a possible candidate, as are Tau. Both have a life beyond fighting.

El_Machinae
23-05-2007, 21:09
Of course there are masive orders of magnitutde more of inorganic resources then biomass in the universe...

Well, ork numbers are also heavily limited by available biomass. In any ecosystem, they will be only a small, small fraction of that ecosystem: meanwhile the 'nids will be the entire ecosystem.

But I'm not talking about inorganic resources (iron and the like), I'm talking about fuels. Once all the fossil fuels of a planet are consumed, the orks are not going to be able to leave that planet. And they consume fuels at prodigious rates merely due to their lifestyle. Eventually they'll turn any planet they're on (over millenia) into a primitive-tech world.

Over time, any planet the orks capture will (over millenia) become a non-producing planet, since all the fuel will be spent.

(Of course, this might be completely disregarded if orks are capable of making fusion reactors and the like)

Slaaneshi Slave
23-05-2007, 21:13
If an Ork can create a teleporta, he can create a nuclear reactor, so they aren't stuck on the planet.

jfrazell
23-05-2007, 21:34
If an Ork can create a teleporta, he can create a nuclear reactor, so they aren't stuck on the planet.

Exactly. Plus the same applies to Nids. They use up biomass as well. Meanwhile the orks dig out asteroids and use them as ships...
I should note I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but the true scope of the Nids haven't been defined yet. They could have actually already shot their wad as it were.