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HolySanguinius
25-05-2007, 07:31
Hi all

I'm new to LotR. I picked up the ambush at amon hen and the uruk seige box along with the best of LotR white dwarf. For $25 from a GW store :D God bless their 30th birthday :D I thought hell, why not.

So I have


Lurtz
3 Uruk hai
2 Bezerkers
8 uruk engineers (assemble as normal uruks?)
2 bombs
4 ladders
3 uruk hai (total 6)
2 uruks carrying merry and pippin


So my question is, what to buy next, whats good, a sample list perhaps. Whats the smallest size game.

Major Thom
25-05-2007, 14:16
A plastic box set of Scout Uruk Hai or regular Uruks, possibly Saruman as well.

HolySanguinius
25-05-2007, 19:51
Whats better? Should I give them crossbows/sheilds/bows/pikes?

Is saruman useful at such small points levels?

Pertinax
25-05-2007, 20:19
I'm going to get dragged into this again, aren't I?

Orcs. Get a box of orcs. They will flesh out your force. Then, I'd get a box of Fighting Uruk Hai, you appear to be lacking a few of those. You then assemble everything you have, and start to play games with about 300 points.

Wait with Saruman until you start playing 500 points or more.

Gondorian
26-05-2007, 00:04
Look at the Isengard models and pick a few of the ones that you think look coolest.

HolySanguinius
26-05-2007, 01:29
Hmm, I want to stay away from "lesser" orcs as much as possible. I just don't like the models or the idea.

Wargs look cool, and how effective is an isenguard troll?

Joewrightgm
26-05-2007, 03:19
The Isengard Troll is stupid rediculous. in a very good way.

and yes, the Wargs are really cool, in more ways then one. the keep people off your flank, neutralize cavalry, and make a annoyance for your opponent.

Pertinax
26-05-2007, 08:31
Hmm, I want to stay away from "lesser" orcs as much as possible. I just don't like the models or the idea.


*is back on my limb again*

HolySanguinius
26-05-2007, 09:13
*is back on my limb again*

I don't get it. Isn't it possible to field an isenguard army without the "rabble" of normal orcs?

Whats better, bows or crossbows. Bows, obviously cheaper but weaker, crossbows stronger but more expensive. Thoughts? Experiences?

Who do you give them to? Scouts (bows) or normal uruk hai (cross bows).

Are uruk hai scouts useful?

Pertinax
26-05-2007, 12:53
Yes it's possible. It's just that very few do. I'm one of the people that does. Unfortunately, this has resulted in my being flamed massively (not on this forum, let me add).

For advice: As many x-bows as possible. Don't take bows, with a 4+ to hit, and S4, they are deadly. Remember that the Uruk wielding the x-bow is still a very competent fighter.

Xbows can only be taken by "warrior" uruks.

Scouts are a cheaper alternative, but not by a lot, to warrior uruks. They fit, in my book, more of a "theme" army.

Mars
26-05-2007, 16:15
It is totally acceptable to field Isengard without Orcs. It's just that Orcs give you a tactical advantage in some ways.

For example bows. If you want these, get Orcs, it's a 3 points difference, but for that the Uruk only gives you a slightly better aim: otherwise, they're pretty much the same in a ranged fight, with the Orc being 33 percent cheaper.

Sure enough Uruks are better in combat, but against most Good armies you'll be the one advancing, so you don't want your uber-close combat troops moving slowly and getting shot up in a type of fight they're not designed for.

Scouting Uruk-Hai in general are quite lousy troops compared to Fighting Uruk-Hai. It's a bit like comparing Galadhrim to armoured High Elves, not much of a debate.

For just a one or two points more, the Fighting Uruk-Hai are massively better: they'll live longer in both shooting and close combat, are better in combat thanks to their pikes, their Captains can actually survive half a second against heavy Good Heroes, and the Crossbow is amongst the most feared weapons in the game (contrary to Orc bows, which are often concidered a laughing matter).

HolySanguinius
27-05-2007, 01:13
So when equipping the orcs, you just give them spears? No bow orcs and no sheild orcs?

You have all been a great help. Looks like I'll be picking up some orcs next, followed by a box of uruks.

Pertinax
27-05-2007, 06:20
That's m'boy!

Yup.

Mars
27-05-2007, 08:26
actually, all Orc equipment is handy

Orc bows are great for volley or even direct fire if you're feeling lucky. the problem is they only come 4 in a box, and you need at least 20 to do some good. otherwise don't bother with bows, those models will be better off in combat

Orcs with shields are actually quite decent for their points: they work best as a shield wall against S2 bows. against Elves and other S3 bows you better keep them back, let your shield Uruk-Hai take the hits and use the Orcs to encircle the enemy (their low Fight and Strength often matters little in combat against Elves)

Orcs with spears are great, take plenty

for your Crossbows, these work best against heavy infantry, like High Elves, Minas Tirith Warriors etc... because they'll easily punch through their armour. make sure you shield them with Orcs or Uruk-Hai (depending on the enemy bow type) and keep them near Grima to protect them from volley fire. watch for Good heroes who can cast blinding light (Galadriel, Gandalf), or you'll be hitting on 6's

other than that, Uruk-Hai with shields will never let you down, as few Good models have the S4 they need to penetrate the Uruk-Hai's D6 easily, and the F4 makes them great fighters against all but Elves and heavy Heroes

HolySanguinius
27-05-2007, 09:47
Cool. Thanks all.

How's lurtz for a hero? I am also liking the look of shagrat, as I like the idea of a few wargs in my army. Lurtz seems to have good might, and a bow is a bonus.

Joewrightgm
27-05-2007, 13:23
Lurtz is an uruk-hai captain with an extra might point. Its really a preference thing.

For around the same cost as Lurtz (IIRC)you can have a vanilla captain with D7 from a shield and heavy armor.

ChrisLS
27-05-2007, 14:59
make sure you shield them with Orcs or Uruk-Hai (depending on the enemy bow type) and keep them near Grima to protect them from volley fire.

Holy moly, that is AWESOME! For some reason I never thought of that... What a great tactic! :D

Mars
27-05-2007, 15:58
Oh yes, for 25 points, Grima is worse to face than Sauron :eek:...

The combination of Saruman and Grima will kill most Good heroes in a single turn (heavy magic and very limited access to Might points), making Aragorn and the likes a lot less scary for Uruk-Hai.

A word for the wise: be careful with those crossbows. They are powerful, but can't move and fire, and only have D5. A smart opponent will attack them quickly and in force, and against direct fire Grima won't help. Elven bows especially are a killer.

For that reason, use them in fragile situations, for example where the enemy has no shooting of his own, like Cavalry charges, or by making most use of the terrain.
Also don't forget their psychological power, they can mess up an enemy's plans without firing a singel shot.

fsupadre
30-05-2007, 02:56
My friends who play Uruks always try to find the 25 points for grima!

the director
30-05-2007, 09:41
start with a box set of fighting uruk-hai. THe orcs get owned in large numbers when you get CQB and they aren't going to stand up to anything in a shooting duel, however the do win by weight of numbers. i wouldn't bother with beserkers much but i would pick up an uruk shaman. Finally the troll shouldn't be got imediatly. but when the points get higher that D 8 can really come in handy. as for an army list. start with 300 points and work your way up to 500 and then on to huge armies.

300 point army list.

1 uruk captin with shield 55
20 fighting uruk-hai 200
7 orc bows 42
=297

500 points

1 uruk captin heavy armour and shield 60 (or lurtz)
1 uruk shaman 50
20 fighting uruk-hai 200
9 cross bows 99
15 orcs (5 with bows and 10 with spear) or (8 with spear 7 with shield)

Pertinax
01-06-2007, 18:31
Remember that Grima can't be taken without Saruman, so in reality, you are using 195 points, not 25.

the director
01-06-2007, 22:21
good in large games but against gandalf he is useless

Pertinax
01-06-2007, 22:42
Why?


(10 characters)

Gondorian
01-06-2007, 23:57
I'd assume the director is refering to the 'your neck/staff is broken' spell that Gandalf has. I wouldn't say that saruman becomes useless against gandlaf, he does have a chance to resist the spell, but you have to be more careful.

Pertinax
02-06-2007, 08:48
One spell that might work doesn't make a figure useless.

Besides, I though he was referring to Grima and Gandalf.

the director
02-06-2007, 13:43
yes i did mean saruman and gandalf, a saruman with no spells is pretty bad in my opinion

Mars
02-06-2007, 13:51
On Saruman vs Gandalf:

First off, you can always dispel the "your staff is broken" spell. Saruman being a first grade magic user, he'll last a while.

Secondly, if Gandalf is fighting Saruman in a magic duel, he's not using Sorcerous Blast on your pike formations. Which is cast with the same difficulty btw, and since Evil pike formations are more vulnerable to it and Saruman will cast it less often, it's a pretty good deal by the numbers (your holding off 210+ points with 170 points).

Thirdly, if you did bring Grima to the party, Gandalf will be at a disadvantage, as he's likely to have trouble using his Might to cast the spell.

Fourthly, they both have a 12" range, and will usually stay back from combat, meaning it's pretty easy to just keep Saruman out of range.

Pertinax
02-06-2007, 15:21
I'm not entirely sure how you can get a Saruman with no spells.

Sure, you can remove the free will, but he's still likely to be good on the table for that. You don't need free will to be good.


*second thoughts, that was probably more confusing that it should have sounded*