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ImperialFist18
25-05-2007, 21:06
I have found it to be quite difficult sometimes to take down certain nids in high point battles, such as hive tyrants, lictors, carnifex, etc. considering their power and high wound count. From experience, What do you preferably like to use to take down a large nid force (what weapons, squads, etc.).

Black Templars fan
26-05-2007, 01:47
typically termies or tanks a good assault squad would work aswell usually fire bolters en masse or your favourite bomb the Holy Orb of Antioch lol remeber your tactical squad:p lol a good hero works too

ImperialFist18
26-05-2007, 01:55
Dam that holy orb to hell!!!!!!

artificer
26-05-2007, 02:00
I personally enjoy 3 guided/warwalkers each equipped with 2 scatter lasers, a few falcons with pulsars, scatter lasers and shuri-cannons, and a squad or two of Dire Avengers with Bladestorm. All focusing on a 'doomed' unit.

Sure they get a 2+ save, but if they're staring into the face of 40+ saves, just about ANYTHING will miss enough saves to cack even 5-6 wound beasties.

chaos0xomega
26-05-2007, 02:05
Err... artificer, I dont think he had starting a new army in mind when he made his post ;)

ImperialFist18
26-05-2007, 02:10
hahaha!!! I think heavy would work really well to take out large masses of nids. And for tempies, the holy orb would work extremely well as said by tempies fan.

artificer
26-05-2007, 02:20
Err... artificer, I dont think he had starting a new army in mind when he made his post ;)

fair call, but he really should be more specific in the future :D

In the case of marines... Well, you could always bury them in HB fire, and of course a jump pack chaplain and 10 assault marines will pretty much murdelize d*mn near anything

chaos0xomega
26-05-2007, 04:13
How bout 3 Whirlwinds? Stick them castellan missiles on them and then its a REAL party. Especially on a cityfight board, you FORCE them to run through them!

ReveredChaplainDrake
26-05-2007, 04:37
How bout 3 Whirlwinds? Stick them castellan missiles on them and then its a REAL party. Especially on a cityfight board, you FORCE them to run through them!

First of all, Whirlwinds aren't that good against the larger Tyranids. Second, if ImperialFist18 plays Black Templars, they don't get Whirlwinds at all.

However, if he does play Black Templars, there's a very easy answer to getting rid of large Tyranids: Suffer Not the Unclean to Live. Look at Tyranids. You've got a bunch of models with Initiatives that are either stupidly high or stupidly low. The -1 I penalty will hardly be evident against a Tyranid Monster, as the Hive Tyrant will always go first and the Carnifex will always go last, irregardless. Also, the more obvious part, the Strength bonus will make pretty much anything easier to crack open, even 2+ save Hive Tyrants. (Too bad they're negligable against T7 Carnifexes.) Another fun thing to do is to use the Emp Champ's Black Sword. With Suffer Not, it goes up to Str7, WS6, and I4, with 4 attacks on the charge. That'll cause a Carnifex some headaches! (Granted your Champ will be reduced to Play Doh should the monster survive and be at least somewhat coordinated in CC. But hey, your Champ is way cheaper than their monster, more often than not.)

If you want to take care of Tyranid Monsters from a range, or if you don't play Black Templars, multimelta Attack Bikes are the Emperor's gift to monster-hunters. Stay out of assault and return fire ranges and just string the MC along. (This unfortunately doesn't work too well against Shootyfexes and Avatars.)

Also, if a Carnifex has guns, fight with it, because Carnifexes really aren't that good in a fight unless tooled to be so. If it has claws, either shoot it or lure it off. If it has both, ignore it and lure it to a spot where it'll find itself hard-pressed to make up its likely high pts cost. When it comes to Hive Tyrants, never assault the Tyrant unless you have some kind of fancy CC abilities.

MegaPope
26-05-2007, 11:33
Which army are a you actually using? Would mak sorting things through a bit easier.

However, some general pointers:

1) You should try to blast away as many Hormagaunts as possible, starting as early as you can. If you're playing Marines, they won't be quite as dangerous to you as they are to more fragile troops, but the sheer number of attacks, and hence the sheer number of saves you'll have to make, could cause a lot of trouble.
In any case, if too many of them get to your lines, at the very least they'll cause a huge logjam of a combat and deny you freedom of movement. This will be fatal, as it means you can't back off from the big monstrosities and/or shoot them very easily.
A similar deal applies to Raveners, though firepower commensurate to totalling Warriors is recommended for these, as they're much more dangerous, and pack heavy short-range firepower to boot.

2) Lictors: a flamethrower or two can work wonders in smoking these buggers out of hiding. Auspexes/scanners are also recommend for a possible pre-game shooting party. Other than that, there's not really much you can do to fend them off apart from ensuring that all your squads have some kind of heavy CC puncher (preferably an invisible powerfist) to put the smack on them when they jump you.

3) Big Lunks: CC tactics as for Lictors above. Cut down ANYTHING with wings at range as soon as you can, or they will cause untold havoc. If your force is decent in close combat, you don't necessarily have to kill off the walkers totally one at a time: stripping a few wounds off each will leave them far more vulnerable to being smacked to death by invisible powerfists when they reach combat, before they can do too much damage.

4) Warriors: don't waste AT fire on them, as no Instant Death. These buggers are heavy bolter fodder. Always worth hosing down when you get the chance though, since they carry quite a high proportion of 'Nid gun power.

5) Zoanthropes: don't forget your Librarian/Inquisitor and his psy-hood. You can't totally close them down, but you'll make them far less dangerous to any tanks/dreads you might have.

6)Biovores: aargh, they're a pain, unless you have access to heavy artillery or aircraft! However, for a Marine army, it might be worth tooling up a Landspeeder squadron (preferably Tornados) for some high-speed counter-battery hunting, as they'll also be useful for thinning out Gaunt hordes or killing Warriors/Raveners. Bikes could also be used, but they're slower, don't ignore terrain, and are more likely to get bushwhacked and killed in CC.

Not a comprehensive list, but I hope it helps. Good luck!

azimaith
26-05-2007, 11:39
I have found it to be quite difficult sometimes to take down certain nids in high point battles, such as hive tyrants,

If you play space marines (Which I assume from your name) the powerfist will nickel and dime one pretty easily. Rapid firing plasma on a fast moving platform is equally effective.



lictors,
Your joking right? Assault them with practically anything. Hell you don't even need to do that, it will likely kill itself on any squad it attacks.



carnifex,

Lascannons, plasma guns, powerfists. Don't be afraid to assault a fex with guns, there not very impressive.



etc. considering their power and high wound count. From experience, What do you preferably like to use to take down a large nid force (what weapons, squads, etc.).
A force weapon will work on any of these. Plasma works as well. The problem isn't what weapon, its how do you fire it when your lines are covered with gaunts. Tanks can work to that end, ignoring most small combats and not being assaultable. I'd avoid skimmers squads, but solo skimmers can work too.

You can also simply counter assault them, a chaplain in an assault squad will ruin most slow nid's days (specifically carnifex) Or a librarian and a chaplain in an assault squad.


Which army are a you actually using? Would mak sorting things through a bit easier.

However, some general pointers:

Sounds like your talking about the wrong edition of tyranids. Auspexes won't do anything for lictors and they only have 2 wounds.

Biovores being scary? I don't see whats so terrifying about 3 small blast templates for at minimum 120 points.

Ravenous
26-05-2007, 11:54
Tyranids arent that hard to deal with if you are marines.

Really their are 4 armies nids can make.

Swarm - 100+ gaunts, low synapse or very weak synapse models (warriors)

Nidzilla - All big guys usually with genestealers as troops

Genestealer cult - 50ish genestealers led by a broodlord with misc support.

Mix - a mix of those above.

Now as marines you can deal with all of them with most "all comers" lists, your main concern is to not take tanks or armour, these are just point sinks for the nid player to blow up and use as cover.

Infantry based is the best you can go for. Keep in cover and keep alive (remember to spread out in cover to kill off lictors)

"Double up" units in cover by mixing them up in one big unit blob, that way your opponent will assault both accidentally, and you get 20 - 30 attacks off before he strikes.

Kill synapse creatures turn 1, go for them if you can. If not blast the unit closest to your core.

Keep on his ass about synapse and instinctive behavior, make him measure over and over, you let him just say "oh there in synapse" and you lose the chance of making him bugger up 30 gaunts.

Speed kills! Know how fast each thing is, in other words dont shoot the CC fex turn 1 instead of the winged hive tyrant.

Try this 1700pt army out.
Master
-power weapon, combi flamer
4 termies
-2 assault cannons

5x10 marines
-lascannon, plasmagun, vet sgt with power fist

8 devastators
-4 missile launchers
8 devastartors
-4 heavy bolters

If you still lose with this army(and the advice given) against any nid then your dice either hate you or you or your opponent are doing something seriously wrong.

Morris
26-05-2007, 12:31
Heavy weapons and lots of bolters work nicely. Bolters rapidfiring the mobs into oblivion and the Heavies taking down large targets.

Bunnahabhain
26-05-2007, 13:39
Just charge lictors. I've killed them easily by running a standard squad of guardsmen at them, and anything a Guard squad can do, a marine squad should be able to do better.

Rapid fire from cover really is your friend here. You can blast away, and still strike first in combat against most stuff. Marines also come in numbers that will all fit in the normally available cover.

ReveredChaplainDrake
26-05-2007, 14:11
Try this 1700pt army out.
Master
-power weapon, combi flamer
4 termies
-2 assault cannons

5x10 marines
-lascannon, plasmagun, vet sgt with power fist

8 devastators
-4 missile launchers
8 devastartors
-4 heavy bolters

If you still lose with this army(and the advice given) against any nid then your dice either hate you or you or your opponent are doing something seriously wrong.

On second thought, don't try it out. It'd get butchered by experienced players due to the sheer monotony and utter lack of mobility. Every smart Nid player knows to take his big, fighty monsters up fire-clogged flanks so as not to let you pelt his one monster with your whole army, and to run his Gaunts in more fire-tempting areas for distraction and claiming objectives / contesting board quarters / satisfying Victory Conditions.

The best thing to do against Tyranids is to be able to shoot on the move. Bikes, Land Speeders, and Predators w/ Extra Armor (so if you get stunned you can still pull back and hide, then come out guns blazing) are all good ways to go. Knock out all the Warriors first because their armor is paper-thin and the synapse they provide is annoying. Ignore any Genestealers or Hormagaunts for the most part because they're not that good when you start stripping them of their precious Initiative with Cover and Frag Grenades. (This is kind of a double-edged sword because of Flesh Hook fighty fexes.)

If a Flyrant rushes at you, have some mobile fire because the Flyrant isn't going to conveniently deploy right across from a Lascannon battery if it can help it at all, and Hidden Powerfists are easy to snipe out by mobile Tyrants by merely charging a small portion of your squad at once, either not letting your Powerfist in the killzone or ensuring that the Tyrant can only kill about 3 models, the third of which must be the Hidden Powerfist. (I do that all the time.) Multimelta Attack Bikes serve this role pretty well, I find, because they combine good mobility with AP1 fire.

daladzor
26-05-2007, 14:18
Either masses of firepower ( chuck enough at it and it will fail some)
or if its an obkective basewd game eg take and hold, i just chuck a large constricpt platoon into them and have them stuck in combat for the rest of teh game

DalekSek
26-05-2007, 18:10
I've found when facing the nids with Imperial Guard the best advice i can give is massed fire power! Platoons with heavy bolters and autocannons will happily mow down large groups of gaunts. i'd avoid lascannons even for carnifexs and tyrants. i've found autocannons are a better choice. don't worry about fex's too much, they may be nasty, but their slow. biovores aren't very accurate, so don't worry about them either.

genestealers are buggers if they get in your lines, and can quite happily mince your poor guardsmen. but again they've got to get there.

Take flamers! angle it right and you can wipe out a big group of gaunts in one go. Hellhounds are also a good choice, especially with it's 24" flamer. but do take extra armour.

take powerfists/weapons where you can. even the lowliest sergent can kill a tyrant.

take out winged tyrants and warriors, they will cause havoc in your lines.

sentinels are good for stopping the sneaky nids, again flamers, autocannons and multi lasers will punch holes in them.

don't underestimate the speed of nids. hormaguants can be on you in no time. individually a gaunt is weak, in a large group their very dangerous.

take out synapse creatures, this will make it much easier to disperse any nids still hanging around.

have some good CC units behind your lines, preferably with powerfists, meltas, plasma guns, to deal with any nasty burrowing or deep striking beasts that may pop up.

MegaPope
27-05-2007, 00:18
Brain-lapse: yes, Biovores are less scary now. Please excuse my mistake--mind currently filled with visions of crazy quilt camo from latest painting project.

Ravenous
27-05-2007, 04:10
On second thought, don't try it out. It'd get butchered by experienced players due to the sheer monotony and utter lack of mobility. Every smart Nid player knows to take his big, fighty monsters up fire-clogged flanks so as not to let you pelt his one monster with your whole army, and to run his Gaunts in more fire-tempting areas for distraction and claiming objectives / contesting board quarters / satisfying Victory Conditions.

The best thing to do against Tyranids is to be able to shoot on the move. Bikes, Land Speeders, and Predators w/ Extra Armor (so if you get stunned you can still pull back and hide, then come out guns blazing) are all good ways to go. Knock out all the Warriors first because their armor is paper-thin and the synapse they provide is annoying. Ignore any Genestealers or Hormagaunts for the most part because they're not that good when you start stripping them of their precious Initiative with Cover and Frag Grenades. (This is kind of a double-edged sword because of Flesh Hook fighty fexes.)

If a Flyrant rushes at you, have some mobile fire because the Flyrant isn't going to conveniently deploy right across from a Lascannon battery if it can help it at all, and Hidden Powerfists are easy to snipe out by mobile Tyrants by merely charging a small portion of your squad at once, either not letting your Powerfist in the killzone or ensuring that the Tyrant can only kill about 3 models, the third of which must be the Hidden Powerfist. (I do that all the time.) Multimelta Attack Bikes serve this role pretty well, I find, because they combine good mobility with AP1 fire.

Uh huh,

The only experienced Nid player is the one running Nidzilla because they know for certain every other option in the codex is weak.

Smart and experienced nid players are on par with a 12 year old kid with his freshly bought marines. Under normal situations and on normal tables with 25% cover Nids lose every time.

Big fighty monsters?

You mean all one of them? The oh so mightly flyrant with his 2+ save and 6+ invulnerable? Last time I checked they seem to have a major problem with a single powerfist not to mention 9 of them. Every other TMC wont make it to combat until turn 4.

Fire clogged flanks?

Right I dont know what game your playing.

With what? Your mass of useless gaunts at 10 pts a peice? They die to a strong breeze, not to mention when you decide to point weapons at them. Why not just upgrade them to be expensive and useless? You seem to believe that gaunts can take on 70 marines. More gaunts = less synapse = EXPLOITABLE and controlable.

Tanks are pointless against nids they have enough high S and multi shot fire power to blow them to hell, its next to pointless to take them. Landspeeders? BAH! How many S6 shots does a Dakka fex have?

How many shots does a DAKKA TYRANT HAVE? If your in range of 24" (which is the range of the only 2 GOOD guns the speeder has) then the next turn so are the Dakka bugs.

Armour against nids is USELESS.

Same goes for bikes, they are just expensive marines that are wounded just as easily as their 15pt fellows.


Im sorry but you cleary have no idea what you are talking about.