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View Full Version : Calling all Collegia Titanica/Heresy experts



bigred
25-05-2007, 20:41
OK, Loremasters,

I am currently working on a master Logo/Iconography sheet for a Traitor Titan Legio; The Legio Tempestor - The Storm Lords.

From what I can discover, this Legio is listed in every source I can find online as being both an existing 40th Millennia Imperial Titan Legio, based on the Forgeworld of Esteban III, and a Traitor Titan Legio, which post heresy became dedicated to Tzeentch.

The explanation given for this behavior was that certain Legios split during the Heresy, instead of wholly going either Traitor or Loyalist.


So here is my quest for hidden knowledge loremasters.

1) I will be painting and flying the colors of a Traitor Legio Tempestor titan.
2) The Historical setting will be during the Heresy, before/during the Siege of Terra
3) The titan will be flying the Eye of Horus as a replacement for the Imperial Eagle on all identifying banners.

The questions:

a) Should the titan be flying the Colors and heraldry of its Home Forgeworld; Esteban III?
b) Should the titan be flying the Icon of the Collegia Titanica (the "double T" symbol)?


In essence, during the Heresy, would the titan still be flying these marks as the Traitors feel that is is they who are the true loyalists and saviors of the Imperium, or would they be denouncing their home Forgeworld and the Colligia Titanica and flying the Eye of Horus in place of it?

Help... (with fluff citations please)

Mechanicus
25-05-2007, 21:02
That depends very much on what happened on Estaban III. I can't remember anything saying whether it turned and was recaptured or such, but perhaps the Legion would be serving offworld (Or part of it at least). I think that during the heresy, they would not be completely chaotic - they would think that they are Mankind's saviours; that since the Warmaster was with them through everything, unlike that Emperor who left the Warmaster to clean up his mess, their loyalty lies with him.

There is conflicting evidence on the Collegia Titanica during the Heresy. Adeptus Titanicus says it was formed after the Heresy to organise the Titan Legions, but the new HH Artbooks make reference to the Titans of the Collegia Titanica. Given that there is evidence of other Collegia (The Collegiate Extremis), and that there might have been others during the Heresy, I'd say that the Collegia Titanica was some form of informal collegia for commanders of Titan Legions and members of the Divisiones Militaris, Mandati and Investigatus pre-heresy.

So, I think no Collegia emblem either way - it wouldn't have an official symbol. I'd go with flying the Eye of Horus/Terra, and if its forgeworld turned, the heraldry and colours of it's forgeworld, as it's forgeworld would be part of the new order. If not, then I'd go for the Astartes Legion it served with's colours, or a new scheme of your own devising. Since there is little-to-no background on it yet, I'd just choose based upon your own opinion.

Luthien
25-05-2007, 21:18
Estaban III ??? do u mean isstvan III or was it just coincidence

bigred
25-05-2007, 21:21
Mechanicus, what you say makes much sense, except much of my visual reference for this project are the color plates describing titan iconography from the Codex Titanicus, which came out in the late 80s to accompany Adeptus Titanicus.

These plates show the "Double T" Collegia icon all over several Titans, and this game and supplement was set during the Heresy. So while the Collegia may have formalized and reorganized post-heresy, the symbol itself seems to have been in use at the time.

I seem to recollect some fluff regarding a civil war within the collegia and the mechanicus in general. The real question, is would both sides consider themselves to be the true Mechaicus/Collegia, or would the traitors, have cast aside their previous allegances as well as iconography?

Its one thing for a member of the Mechanicus to throw down the Aquilla and take up the Eye of Horus, but would one so quickly abandon their own personal Mechanicus icons?

I have uncovered no reference to the fate of Esteban III during the Heresy whatsoever.... anyone else have something???

Mechanicus
25-05-2007, 21:36
Fair enough - I'll take your word for the Codex Titanicus '89 edition.

As to the civil war, the bulk of the Mechanicum fought itself, meaning that the full weight of the war machines of the traitor Mechanicum was not used against the Imperium.

I think that the Traitors would view themselves as the true Mechanicum - after all, Horus... <False Gods Spoiler>gave the Mechanicum a fully functioning STC library...so I would keep the Cult Mechanicus symbols, and the Estaban III symbol depends on it's fate during the Heresy, which doesn't seem to be recorded. The traitors thought they would win, taking control of the Mechanicum, so you might as well keep the Collegia Titanica symbols in that case.

bigred
25-05-2007, 21:49
Fair enough Mechanicum,

I bow your your insight into the organization.

As we have no recorded history of Esteban III, and we are talking about the heady early days of the Heresy when the traitors were pretty much cleaning the floor with the Loyalists who resisted them on their march to Terra,

Im going with the following:

Esteban III Heraldry displayed
Collegia Titanicus Icon displayed
Legio Tempestus Iconography displayed
Eye of Horus displayed as a replacement for the Imperial Aquilla


I think that really gets across the arrogant, pompous feel of the Mechanicus Traitors during this period.

Ahhh, fictional "historical" archaeology... what a wonderful hobby we have.

Once again Mechanicum, thanks a million!

-bigred

ps, I'll post pics here in a few weeks when she's done, With the Storm Lord's grey/blue geometric carapace camo scheme, the Reaver should be quite a looker.

Fulgrim's Gimp
25-05-2007, 23:27
In Adeptus Titanicus the Collegia Titanica were pre-Heresy, but , it seems were reorganised into the Divisios after. Also the Traitors would think they were the 'true' mechanicus as the Fabricator General of the Mechanicum sided with Horus. His name escapes me.