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Jedi Manly
27-05-2007, 03:48
I had an interesting situation today when playing my friend. In his combat phase he overrun into the flank of my zombies. In this unit I had a vampire -not in combat. Now it was my turn, so I moved the vampire into the flank. Simple so far, but now comes the tricky part. A sentence that says: This "can" mean the character loses the chance to fight in the first round of combat.
That word "can" I have interpreted means I can still strick this turn. Why? Because if my friend had charged the flank in his turn I would not have been able to move the vampire and thus attack in the first round of combat. But as it happened as an overrun, I had the opportunity to move before fighting.

I know in the last edition you couldn't attack the turn you moved, so my question is has this rule changed?

Thoughts (if I haven't confused you too much)?

Ninsaneja
27-05-2007, 05:41
What was that quote? "If it requires tricky interpretation and strange meanings, it's probably wrong. There are no easter eggs in the BRB."

lparigi34
27-05-2007, 08:06
...but as it happened as an overrun, I had the opportunity to move before fighting.

I know in the last edition you couldn't attack the turn you moved, so my question is has this rule changed?

How comes? You usually attack the turn you move, specially when you are charging :D.

If I remember Ok, the character movement within engaged units was pretty different in 6th, so I rather skip it.

But it is as you say, in this case you happen to move the character before the chargers do attack, so in your Close Combat phase the character will be in BTB with the enemy and also be able to attack.

Festus
27-05-2007, 08:38
Reread p.74 BRB....

Interstingly, there actually is the sentence that the character may not fight in the first round of combat if it has moved ...:wtf:

Not that I'd play it that way, but it certainly is in the BRB.

FEstus

Masque
27-05-2007, 09:02
As has already been pointed out it says it 'can' happen not that it 'does' happen.

Griefbringer
27-05-2007, 09:20
Let's quote the sentence in question properly:

"This can mean that the character loses the chance to fight in the first turn of the combat."

I think this is just a slightly redundant explanation about what happens if the first turn of the combat is before the character has an opportunity to move to the fighting rank.

Festus
27-05-2007, 09:27
No, read on. I am not talking about the start of the paragraph, but about the bottom. At least in the German version there is:

*Das Charaktermodell kann in der ersten Phase des Nahkampfs weiterhin nicht kämpfen.*

Translated as: *The character can/may still not fight in the first round of combat*

Festus

Jedi Manly
27-05-2007, 09:31
That is what I thought, however because it was potentially the winning of the game and turned out to be (until it turned into a draw) my friend couldn't, or didn't want to, see my point of view. We diced for it. And I was allowed to fight.
I agree the sentence seems to state the obvious.
Thanks for the feedback

Jedi Manly
27-05-2007, 09:34
Sorry, I was refering to Griefbringer's comment

Festus
27-05-2007, 09:37
Hi

You can edit - and indeed delete - your posts by using the edit button in the lower right.

FEstus

Griefbringer
27-05-2007, 09:50
At least in the German version there is:


It looks like the German translation team again managed to change the meaning of the sentence - the one that I posted is from the original English version, and it is from the later part of the paragraph, so presumably the sentence that you quoted is their attempt at the German translation of it.

Or to quote certain movie: "Ich habe sauerkraut in meiner lederhosen!"

Masque
27-05-2007, 09:52
No, read on. I am not talking about the start of the paragraph, but about the bottom. At least in the German version there is:

*Das Charaktermodell kann in der ersten Phase des Nahkampfs weiterhin nicht kämpfen.*

Translated as: *The character can/may still not fight in the first round of combat*

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same sentence. Second to last sentence of the first paragraph of Moving Characters Within Engaged Units, right? It seems like the German rulebook has a bad translation.

Festus
27-05-2007, 10:06
Hi

to quote myself:


Not that I'd play it that way, ...
Festus

Griefbringer
27-05-2007, 11:09
But this forum is for discussing about RAW, not about how Festus would play out a certain rule. :cool:

Krankenstein
27-05-2007, 13:11
Seems to me that the german and english versions are exactly the same thing, namely:


... a slightly redundant explanation about what happens if the first turn of the combat is before the character has an opportunity to move to the fighting rank.

Festus
27-05-2007, 13:40
No, the German version flat out denies a character the possibility to attack in the first round of combat - even if he moved into a fighting position.

The English version only tells us that he can end up in a non-fighting position if charged.

Festus

Negativemoney
27-05-2007, 15:48
No, the German version flat out denies a character the possibility to attack in the first round of combat - even if he moved into a fighting position.

The English version only tells us that he can end up in a non-fighting position if charged.

Festus

If he had moved into a fighting possition wouldn't that make it the second (or later) round of combat?

Masque
27-05-2007, 15:58
If he had moved into a fighting possition wouldn't that make it the second (or later) round of combat?

I take it you didn't read the original example in the first post of the thread?

T10
27-05-2007, 16:26
I think the intent is clear: You may move any unengaged character to a fighting position during your own movement phase.

The rules fail to take into account the possibility that a unit can start a turn allready engaged in combat by a charging enemy unit. They also fail to take into account the players need to move characters around several times during a combat lasting several turns.

-T10

lparigi34
27-05-2007, 18:43
I agree with T-10, is not what the rules exactly says but the stuff the failed to take into account, in this case I believe the intent (sorry for the use of that word) is pretty obvious.

EvC
27-05-2007, 23:37
The wording of the rule is actually completely non-sensical. There is nothing about "swap the character for an ordinary model that is already fighting" that means "the character loses the chance to fight in the first turn of combat", as the rule describes. Thus it is safe to infer that the rule is talking about another incident that causes the character to not be able to fight in the first turn of combat: that is, the unit's been charged in the previous turn and has already fought a round of combat. To summarise: "this is just a slightly redundant explanation about what happens if the first turn of the combat is before the character has an opportunity to move to the fighting rank."

It's not clear, of course, but the unwritten rule of common sense tells us there's no reason to belive a character should lose his ability to fight because he's moved, while there is plenty of reason to believe he should fight.

Jedi Manly
28-05-2007, 08:29
There is nothing about "swap the character for an ordinary model that is already fighting" that means "the character loses the chance to fight in the first turn of combat", as the rule describes

That is what I thought. However I understood my friends position, he didn't want the vampire there :D

EvC
28-05-2007, 12:14
Yeah, I know what you mean. I played a game recently where some Boar Boyz charged a unit and I killed a couple of them with a character in his combat phase, so he decided to specifically remove the models in contact with that character, so in my movement phase I had to move my hero back into contact with the Boar Boyz. It'd be insane if he couldn't still attack that turn...