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Irennicus
27-05-2007, 21:26
Alright, so I've already posted a Night Goblin armylist that I was going to plan on building in the army lists section, but after number crunching it more and more I'm liking it less and less.

I think I'm just forced to go with a broad O&G list because it seems to me that the Night Goblins just aren't going to hack it by themselves. I was wondering what your opinions on the best ways to win the game playing as O&G.

I'm really intrigued by the Orc Boar Chariot, I think I'm going to take that and have fun running it into people, are the black orcs worth it? Coming from just spending 3 pts on an infantry to 12 pts is a jump for me, but I'm still heavily considering it. Is it worth using Black Orc characters for the animosity negating even though they inflict d6 s5 attacks on the army when it squabbles?

Avian
28-05-2007, 12:58
Well, I have my Orcs & Goblins Tactics page (http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_greenskin_tactics), which might be helpful.

If you ask me, O&G do best as a combined arms force, with a lot of units of different types to bring down the opponent. Build for flexibility and you will rarely go wrong.
Black Orc units are not exactly cost-effective and I greatly prefer a large block of Orc Boyz and a Boar Chariot instead of a smaller unit of Black Orcs. Black Orc characters are very well worth it in a unit that is big enough to soak up the casualties with little worry.


Anyways, a suggested 2250 pt mixed army list:

Black Orc Warboss @ 273 pts
- Akk'rit Axe
- Best Boss 'At
- Horn of Urgok
- Heavy armour, shield, boar

Black Orc Big Boss @ 150 pts
- Battle standard bearer
- 'Itty Ring
- Heavy armour, boar

Orc Shaman, lvl 2 @ 150 pts
- Power Stone
- Dispel Scroll

Night Goblin Shaman, lvl 2 @ 135 pts
- Staff of Sneaky Stealin'


23 Orc Boyz @ 168 pts
- Choppa, shield, light armour
- Full command

24 Orc Boyz @ 174 pts
- Choppa, shield, light armour
- Full command

23 Orc Boyz @ 191 pts
- Two choppas, light armour
- Full command

20 Night Goblins @ 89 pts
- Hand weapon, shield
- Musician
- 1 Fanatic

20 Night Goblins @ 89 pts
- Hand weapon, shield
- Musician
- 1 Fanatic

5 Wolf Riders @ 76 pts
- Spear, short bow, light armour
- Musician

5 Wolf Riders @ 76 pts
- Spear, short bow, light armour
- Musician

5 Spider Riders @ 71 pts
- Spear, shield
- Musician

5 Spider Riders @ 71 pts
- Spear, shield
- Musician

6 Snotling Bases @ 120 pts


1 Boar Chariot @ 80 pts

1 Boar Chariot @ 80 pts

7 Squig Hoppers @ 105 pts

2 Spear Chukkas @ 70 pts

1 Troll @ 40 pts

1 Troll @ 40 pts

Grand total of 2250 pts
Unit Strength 203

Llew
28-05-2007, 14:12
Disclaimer: I'm not an O&G player, but I play against them.

One nice thing to consider about Bl'orcs is their ability to ignore animosity.

I played a game this weekend where my opponents huge hammer unit of Boar Boys stood still for the first 3 turns of the game. It's highly unlikely and all, but it can be nice to have a unit or two that you know you'll be able to move when you need it.

sun tzu
28-05-2007, 14:45
Well, I have my Orcs & Goblins Tactics page (http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_greenskin_tactics), which might be helpful.

If you ask me, O&G do best as a combined arms force, with a lot of units of different types to bring down the opponent. Build for flexibility and you will rarely go wrong.
Black Orc units are not exactly cost-effective and I greatly prefer a large block of Orc Boyz and a Boar Chariot instead of a smaller unit of Black Orcs. Black Orc characters are very well worth it in a unit that is big enough to soak up the casualties with little worry.


Anyways, a suggested 2250 pt mixed army list:

Black Orc Warboss @ 273 pts
- Akk'rit Axe
- Best Boss 'At
- Horn of Urgok
- Heavy armour, shield, boar

Black Orc Big Boss @ 150 pts
- Battle standard bearer
- 'Itty Ring
- Heavy armour, boar

Orc Shaman, lvl 2 @ 150 pts
- Power Stone
- Dispel Scroll

Night Goblin Shaman, lvl 2 @ 135 pts
- Staff of Sneaky Stealin'


23 Orc Boyz @ 168 pts
- Choppa, shield, light armour
- Full command

24 Orc Boyz @ 174 pts
- Choppa, shield, light armour
- Full command

23 Orc Boyz @ 191 pts
- Two choppas, light armour
- Full command

20 Night Goblins @ 89 pts
- Hand weapon, shield
- Musician
- 1 Fanatic

20 Night Goblins @ 89 pts
- Hand weapon, shield
- Musician
- 1 Fanatic

5 Wolf Riders @ 76 pts
- Spear, short bow, light armour
- Musician

5 Wolf Riders @ 76 pts
- Spear, short bow, light armour
- Musician

5 Spider Riders @ 71 pts
- Spear, shield
- Musician

5 Spider Riders @ 71 pts
- Spear, shield
- Musician

6 Snotling Bases @ 120 pts


1 Boar Chariot @ 80 pts

1 Boar Chariot @ 80 pts

7 Squig Hoppers @ 105 pts

2 Spear Chukkas @ 70 pts

1 Troll @ 40 pts

1 Troll @ 40 pts

Grand total of 2250 pts
Unit Strength 203

this is a very good list:evilgrin:

Gimp
28-05-2007, 14:47
If you are gonna take a Orc hero make him a Black Ork hero. Its great for a Battle Standard Bearer as he then has two choppas or a great weapon.

But avoid putting him in a unit of Baor Bozy as D6 St5 hits can get a bit ugly in theese dudes.

A min of 2 spear chukkus is a must with a max of 4.

Not a big fan of Chariots as cannons can deal death to theese dudes.

Black Orcs as a unit are very reliable and very strong and tough. But too expensive. I dont take any but if you want some, one unit of 18 (6 wide) is the maxamine you should take.

Small wolf rider units are a must no less than 2.

See you later.

Dead Man Walking
28-05-2007, 15:54
The problem with black orc characters is that if a unit fails its animosity test they will regain control by killing Orcs. d6 str5 hits worth of hits is going to do a lot of damage to boar boys. This might not be so bad in a unit of regular orcs who cost 5 points but it just does not work for a unit whose basic guy costs 22 points. Save yourself some pain and take a regular orc big boss. It will cost less and you can still pump out a hard hitting tough to kill character.

The most successful boarboy units I have seen was lead by a regular orc. The only reason I survived its charge is because I was playing dwarfs and I made it charge a unit of longbeards who had a thane, was leadership 10 fom a nearby lord and tested its breaktest on 1 d6 instead of 2d6. I had to roll a 3 and I had a battle standard nearby so on the second roll I passed the break test. A boarboy unit with boss can seriously mangle anything short of a unit designed to stop a massive charge.

Gimp
28-05-2007, 17:27
6-7 Squig Hoppers can be very usefull but dont let them get charged.

What size should a unit of Bair Bozy be.

Irennicus
28-05-2007, 20:04
Avian I've been reading your page word for word now. It's truly marvelous, why do you use the trolls? I'd think they'd be too unreliable with Ld 4 and Stupidity? Also, how do you feel about Giants? A lot of people around here say that they're worth taking as soon as you can afford them but I don't like the idea of sinking 245 points into one model.

I love your list, by the way.

Falkman
28-05-2007, 20:15
As long as you keep the trolls close to the general, they can use his Ld for their stupidity tests.
The giant only costs 205 pts if I remember right.

Dead Man Walking
29-05-2007, 01:28
I tend to field 2 units of 9 + 1 orc character. I have seen one person field 14 + 1 character too, though it really is overkill. 10 of them are unit str 20.

sun tzu
29-05-2007, 02:28
I like trolls in units of 3 or 4 and you really need to keep them close to your general for his LD

Giant rock and can hold a flank but watch out for war machines, my orc and goblin army has one and it has always got it's points back

Avian
29-05-2007, 14:24
Avian I've been reading your page word for word now. It's truly marvelous, why do you use the trolls? I'd think they'd be too unreliable with Ld 4 and Stupidity?
I like my two single trolls, because they are very nice and flexible little units. Cheap, effectively impossible to panic, doesn't cause panic in anything else and nicely supports my other units. And with the Ld9 general nearby they are no more unreliable than the average greenskin unit. :)


Also, how do you feel about Giants? A lot of people around here say that they're worth taking as soon as you can afford them but I don't like the idea of sinking 245 points into one model.
Meh, I tend to prefer multiple cheaper units over one big missile target. Giants are okay if there isn't too much firepower and some decent terrain around, but I tend to prefer other stuff.



What size should a unit of Bair Bozy be.
Uhhh... Zero?

Can't say I think too much of Boar Boyz in this edition, but once I tire of my all-Goblin (and Squig, Wolf, Spider and Snotling) army, I'll be fielding an all mounted greenskin list for a while. I will be better able to report back on Boar Boyz then, but so far my experience has shown them to be overly expensive in this edition, particularly since they lose rank bonus quicker and the infantry is better. Oh, well.

sephiroth87
29-05-2007, 18:11
With building and playing an orc and goblin army, the biggest thing I've found is that orc boyz units take up a LOT of room on the board. The other thing I've found from using both Bretonnians and Orcs is that combined charges win battles. However, with the orcs, it's a base size issue.


Units with small base frontages (i.e. snotling pump wagons, chariots, giants, trolls) can be combined with orc charges to devastating effect. Regiments don't do a lot of wounds, but they have a static +4-5 and can usually add a few more through kills. However, they usually don't win combat by enough to make breaking the enemy a sure thing.

The orc small frontage units are a different matter, though. They have no resolution bonus, but they sure as hell can kill things. Not only that, they're the only units that are small enough to worm their way into the corner of a front charge and still do a lot of damage.

Given this fact, they can combine charges with the big orc boyz units, even on a front charge. Run 2 orc boyz units together, and they'll likely have to charge different units. Run a chariot and an orc boyz unit together, and you can stack up both kills and static combat resolution bonuses to get a great CR result at the end of the combat, ensuring yourself that you can break the enemy, move out of the opponent's line of sight, and not get whacked in the flank on the next turn.

Vile Snotsuckle
31-05-2007, 13:59
Related Question: Can you throw a black orc big boss or a black or warboss into a unit of goblins? The sight of a large orc in a massive unit of goblins is appealing to me. Whenever they get out of line, my black orc will bash their brains in.

sephiroth87
31-05-2007, 18:14
I believe they can. Remember to take the goblin netters....

Franco
01-06-2007, 13:52
Blorcs are needed. I have problems with animosity, it always affects my plans, thats why i never have a set tactic for my army. Blorcs ignore goblin panic and animosity, so atleast you have one army that will do what you want. Orc boar chariot is good, and don't forget to charge with it, so you get those extra attacks!!!

Dead Man Walking
01-06-2007, 18:46
I dont have my book handy, but in the last edition an orc wouldnt be caught dead leading a unit of goblins, its kinda embarassing.

Son_Of_A_Horus
02-06-2007, 10:29
I'm struggling with my O&G too. I have a very balanced 2000pt list, but I keep getting blatted. Mind you, in fairness, I was against Elves and they had a lot of shooty goodness

Avian
03-06-2007, 16:04
Related Question: Can you throw a black orc big boss or a black or warboss into a unit of goblins?
Yes, but a slightly smaller unit of Orc Boyz is generally more cost-effective than a big unit of Goblins.

bluebugs
03-06-2007, 16:42
Haven't played with orcs in this edition yet, but I am very excited to. Anyway, it is good idea to mix gobbos and orcs (hence the army's name) An all orc army can make it, but you lack numbers. And an all gobbo army can be really scary in terms of numbers, but it lacks any real punch (expecially so with the new book). So I think if your going the gobbo route, maybe just one or 2 units or orc boys/savage orcs (make them big-uns), and if your going the orc route, maybe just one or 2 units of gobbos (anykind, I don't hate on the common gobbos). Peace!