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Lancaster
29-05-2007, 09:39
Recently I was thinking about what someone said a while back... That there is no room for a new race in 40K because there is no niche for them to fill

So, I started thinking of all the possibilities of a new race (like one that employs tankettes and 'land battleships' or one that has forcefeild bubbles surrounding every unit) but then I realised an even more important problem with a new race, the size of such a project.

As 40K expands its complexity grows exponentially

Every army needs to be playtested against every other army extensivly before any rules can be released. This means that every army increases the work for every army introduced after it into the game.

Also, the alternate game systems like Cities of Death or Apocalypse add to the testing. After apocalypse, pretty much every army will have a super heavy or super heavy equivilent that needs to be written and fitted into the game, then these extra elements must be playtested to see how they interact.

I really like the idea of a new race, unfortunatley it doesn't seem to be likely.

sigur
29-05-2007, 09:45
Of course it's not impossible and I'm afraid it will happen sooner or later but hopefully not soon. There's way more important stuff to do than throwing another new army at us. At the moment they seem to try to make 40k less fuzzy, more streamlined and tournament-friendly (yes, it's time to look for alternatives again ;) ). Also, they should concentrate on existing armies who are in dire need for new codices/miniatures and so on.

tiacapan
29-05-2007, 09:46
Adding a whole new race as a playable army is a huge undertaking, I reckon GW would be better to continue what the started with the Tau's Kroots and Vespid. Add new races graduallyas mercenaries or allies to the main races, trial them as 40K DOW or even better, print the rules in WD and put out a small number of minitures for them (after all that's how the necrons started).

It would give them the versatility to make a few mistakes and to see which concepts proved popular.

Horus84
29-05-2007, 09:53
Well, at the end of the day the over-riding factor is going to money and the cost of producing and designing a new race. 40k now has about the same amount of armies as fantasy. It also comes down to support. In one of the recent Standard Bearer (I think 330) articles Mr Johnson speakes how they won't be doing new armies unless they think they can fully support said armies though the WD, internet and regular (5-6 years) update.

CaptainSenioris
29-05-2007, 12:37
There are a lot of potential new 'armies' already available in the background to add to the mix some of which have trial rules to get you by, Exodites, Kroot mercs, Armoured companies, Savage Orks, Adeptus Custodes, Alien Hunters(There's proably some I missed).

A new race would be kind of dificult to add amongst that lot.

This better not turn into a 'Bring back the Squats!' thread I've seen way too many of those.

RobbiP
29-05-2007, 13:34
Adding a new race to an established 'universe' is by no means impossible. Look at Tau- when they first came out not too long ago (relatively speaking) the reasoning was they were a new race starting to have a technology boom where they were starting to come into contact with a lot more people (or something like that.) Makes sense to me. Look at Ogre Kingdoms in WHFB- they were a mishmash of fluff tidbits originally in older printed sources and combined together (regarding their origins) for the army book. Of course, in that example some parts of fluff had to be slightly changed i.e maps but nonetheless...

Regarding niches in 40k.. there are still some missing :P
1) Army with lots if big hulking multiwound units as Troops (think: Ogre Kingdoms in WHFB.) One could argue that tzeentch 1k Sons "kinda" fill that role but they're leaving. We want wounds, damnit :P
2) Not a new army per se, but a new codex with *lots* rules of other SM chapters. GW is already selling billions of SMurf models, might as well diversify them instead having every Scrubby McNoob paint them as Ultras. Hell, even like 10 chapters covered, each with slightly different rules to represent them better then the lameass traits, would add so much more diversity in the SM community.
3) An all-vehicle list(s) utilizing NO infantry. Something like Codex: Armoured Core where it shows all the races' equivalents of Armoured Companies. If they balanced it regarding points costs and stuff, it would make the game a lot neater IMO. Plus it'd get FW some more cash. Note that while IG Armoured Company exists, it's technically illegal and is in need of minor tweaks.
4) An all-daemon list straight from the EoT (think: Daemonic Legion from WHFB's SoC campaign). It'd have new summoning and instability rules, as well as new units and whatnot.
5) Codex: Deathworld... kinda like a Catachan codex, except more diverse units. Wouldn't really be an IG codex, more of a Mercs codex since the units are a mishmash of races and whatnot that are either native to or stranded on deathworlds. Available as allies to a IG with certain traits. It'd have the mandatory 0-1 lictor option of course, which has an equal chance of killing your guys or his :P
6) Codex: Harlequins. Would be like a 'brother/ally' codex to Eldar kinda like DH are to the Marines. You could use the list as only Harlequins or stick some more into your Eldar list as allies.
7) Codex: Random-stuff-Tau-converted-for-the-greater-good. Kinda like a brother/ally codex to Tau in the same respect SoB are to IG. It'd have more Kroot mercs, maybe different Vespids, etc etc.
8) Codex: Animals. I swear, it'd be awesome. Maybe not a standalone codex per say, but an allies codex nonetheless for various other armies, with restrictions. Example- let's say you want your Salamanders army to have tamed Firedrakes in the force. It'd be kind of an official compilation of (somewhat tamed) flora/fauna you can utilize in armies where it'd be native to in that area. Restrictions would involve: certain traits, doctrines, or marks needed (for the respective race), certain units needed in certain quantity (in the respective race), etc.

Notice many of the above themes have allies in them. I think this game is lacking a lot of interconnectivity, so that's one thing I wouldnt mind GW work on

/Robbi

gLOBS
29-05-2007, 13:47
I always thought that a small race would fit in nicely.
Give em toughness 2 with a 2+ save and 3 wound swarm base.
Their titans are the size of dreads,large squads of skimmer "flyers", plus tanks the size of infantry.

Slayhem
29-05-2007, 14:30
I always thought that a small race would fit in nicely.
Give em toughness 2 with a 2+ save and 3 wound swarm base.
Their titans are the size of dreads,large squads of skimmer "flyers", plus tanks the size of infantry.
I like it.

sliganian
29-05-2007, 14:38
As someone already said, the Jerve has committed that the new design mantra is: No army unsupported. I think the exact words were something like "provide support indefinitely for existing lists."

The backside of this is that support the extant lists already taxes the Studio resources (now if they dropped LotR... oh to dream... ), so the odds of a fully new, Codex-ized race are slim to none in the foreseeable future (say next 5-10 years). Where one might see new races plopped in are in placed like a Codex: Xenoshunters as radical allies -- not that I think we'll see a Codex:Xenoshunters anytime this decade.

MysteryGilgamesh
29-05-2007, 14:46
I'd REALLY love a DoW 40k.

Hell, some armies have it already (WH/SoB and other I forces). But it would really fit best with Tau, given that they're an idealogical version of Borg.

Onisuzume
29-05-2007, 15:16
Besides bringing back the squats. (yes, we know it all by now)
I could see room for new races.
Though the existing armies should get a 4th edition codex before they even start thinking about it. (especially orks and DE)

CaptainSenioris
29-05-2007, 16:14
8) Codex: Animals.

Catachan Barking Toad FTW!!

superknijn
29-05-2007, 16:18
Maybe they've already put it in Apocalyps. What else than an exploding Barking Toad needs a template the size of 7 plate templates next to each other?

Ofcourse, the greater Barking Toad would be comparable to a 2nd generation Slann (from Fantasy ;) ) in destructive ability, and probably also in apearance.

loveless
29-05-2007, 16:29
Besides bringing back the squats. (yes, we know it all by now)


Don't they call them the Demiurg now? Or something of that sort.

As to having to fill niches, we already have some armies that fill no niches.

I was about to describe, but then I thought it might start a flame war or some such rot, so I'll restrain myself for now.

Thanatos_elNyx
29-05-2007, 16:47
I always thought that a small race would fit in nicely.
Give em toughness 2 with a 2+ save and 3 wound swarm base.
Their titans are the size of dreads,large squads of skimmer "flyers", plus tanks the size of infantry.

That would be cool but then they would be instant killed by bolters!

mistformsquirrel
29-05-2007, 16:55
Adding a whole new race as a playable army is a huge undertaking, I reckon GW would be better to continue what the started with the Tau's Kroots and Vespid. Add new races graduallyas mercenaries or allies to the main races, trial them as 40K DOW or even better, print the rules in WD and put out a small number of minitures for them (after all that's how the necrons started).

It would give them the versatility to make a few mistakes and to see which concepts proved popular.

Complete agreement on my part.

I'd love to see a new army eventually - but right now people like Dark Eldar and Orks need new codices pretty badly (and minis too!); and it'd be far better to work on races important to the background /already/ than trying to shove another group into the fray immediately. I hardly think there's 'no room' for one though.

mistformsquirrel
29-05-2007, 17:00
Catachan Barking Toad FTW!!

Isn't that the exploding toad of doom? <,<

Yuuya
29-05-2007, 17:05
they should do more for necron,dark eldar,inquistor instead of another new race.

Darnok
29-05-2007, 17:08
Impossible is nothing.

But I would hate to see something completely new if stuff like Orks/Dark Eldar/Necrons would have to step back for that.

Lexington
29-05-2007, 17:27
There are a lot of potential new 'armies' already available in the background to add to the mix some of which have trial rules to get you by, Exodites, Kroot mercs, Armoured companies, Savage Orks, Adeptus Custodes, Alien Hunters(There's proably some I missed).
Um, wait, wha? Adeptus Custodes? Aren't they the ones who take care of/guard the Emperor? Not exactly an "army."

Templar Ben
29-05-2007, 17:34
Don't they call them the Demiurg now? Or something of that sort.

As to having to fill niches, we already have some armies that fill no niches.

I was about to describe, but then I thought it might start a flame war or some such rot, so I'll restrain myself for now.

By dropping a few of the races that don't have supporting sales it would free up design time.

the1stpip
29-05-2007, 19:31
I have recently put some thought into this. No new races should be introduced at the expense of those races who need new codices (DE, Orks, Necrons).

I would like to see an army with troops choices 3 wounds and a 4+ or 3+ save, but 3-5 per slot, rather like a Minotaur army or Ogres. Maybe an insect or arachnid race, more like Starship Troopers or Anne McCaffrey's Tower and the Hive series, if you have read it.

I would also like to see Hrud brought in. Maybe 50% chance of night fighting for the whole battle, but little in the way of heavy support. If they have a searchlight shone on the unit, they take an immediate pinning test.

They would end up being a light, sneaky army (shockingly, like Skaven).

I would love to see a DopW type book. Lots of mercenary units (Zagstruks Rokkit Boyz from Codex Orks, Maybe a Harlequin troupe with a Great Harlequin) and the option of animal armies, like Catachan devils and suchlike.

I doubt we will see any new races for some years, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Arbiter7
29-05-2007, 20:09
Isn't there a picture of some alien with the description "slaani" or something in the 40k rulebook where it describes the background?

Could this be a hint for "space lizzies" to come?

Or am I just missing something?

MrPickles
29-05-2007, 20:25
Arbiter, I think you are thinking about the Loxatl. I am looking at the rulebook now, and it says they are a "non-humanoid quadrupeds evolved from amphibian forms." There is a picture of a slanni next to the caption though.

Glavemaster
29-05-2007, 21:15
The Adeptus Custodes are not worth a Codex of their own. The only time they moved out of the Emperor's Palace since the Heresy was during the Apostasy.. So fluffwise, they're not the #1 choice, I guess.

While some new races would be cool, I reckon GW should focus on updating the really out-of-date codices, such as DE or Orks..

Lancaster
30-05-2007, 05:39
The Adeptus Custodes are not worth a Codex of their own. The only time they moved out of the Emperor's Palace since the Heresy was during the Apostasy.. So fluffwise, they're not the #1 choice, I guess.

While some new races would be cool, I reckon GW should focus on updating the really out-of-date codices, such as DE or Orks..

The Custodes are the modern equiveilent of the Vatican Swiss Guard, what they are best at is keeping American tourists in short skirts out of Popetown

Drogmir
30-05-2007, 05:49
I've always thought of making a new sub shoot race of the Imperium. A colony has been left out of contact for so long that the Imperium believes that they died out.

Yet when you look at their race they discovered new tech. equal to Tau without anyone noticing. And have now declared themselves the Federation (or something close to that) of Mankind.

Of course WH doesn't seem to like Star Trek very much so....

Gorbad Ironclaw
30-05-2007, 06:47
By dropping a few of the races that don't have supporting sales it would free up design time.


Are you volunteering your army?

Curufew
30-05-2007, 07:38
I would like to see some Predator like race. Very few models, few tanks, high stats. Most of them are stealth.

Or an advance humanity civilization that is what human civilization should be like if the people on MARS don't start to worship technology instead of improve and invent

guardsmen529
30-05-2007, 11:26
Arbiter, I think you are thinking about the Loxatl. I am looking at the rulebook now, and it says they are a "non-humanoid quadrupeds evolved from amphibian forms." There is a picture of a slanni next to the caption though.

They're described in one of the Guants Ghost's novels as well, as mercenaries who fight for the highest bidder and are incredibly resistant to laser weapons

This could make some interesting rules (with las weapons etc...) but they couldn't become a completely new army list, they could act as the 40K equivilent of Dogs of War, but not a fully fledged army and the las weapons rule (if any) would only be of use against Guard

Remember that Ordos: Xenos is yet to come out, though this is not a new race, just a new list with a few new charcters. GW will probably hold that up there sleeves for a while but GW have said since Deamonhunters that there would be a triliogy of the Ordos codexs (i.e. deamonhunters, witchhunters and xenos hunters)

NOTE TO GW WORKSHOP: Don't make anymore add-on races for the tau!!!

alexgrunt
30-05-2007, 12:10
Or an advance humanity civilization that is what human civilization should be like if the people on MARS don't start to worship technology instead of improve and invent

LIke the one at the beginning of Horus Rising?

Well... unless they ever do a heresy-era codex, I don't think it will happen: The mood of the game is darkness and decay of Mankind. This civilization would be advanced and know how to craft technology, leading to enlightment (at least techologically) of the Imperium, which would definitly not fit with the actual fluff... unless they're blue skinned with no nose and a nick like fishheadz ;)

my 2 cents...

gLOBS
30-05-2007, 13:41
That would be cool but then they would be instant killed by bolters!

Eh yea it would be like guard being hit by a battlecannon. Or make em immune to non to instant kill by non template weapons. If the bases had multiple shots or types of attacks it can balance out.

Tyco
30-05-2007, 14:52
I'd like see something like a faction, which consists of mercenaries from different races, similar like the Dogs of War for the WHFB. This would allow for the lesser known races to make their appearance in the miniatures.

- Hrud
- Nicassar
- Perhaps surviving squats?
- Eldar pirates
- Renegade chaos marines (think Night Lords, Alpha Legion) & Chaos militia
- Kroot
- Orks
- Sanctioned Admechs & Guardsmen
- Rogue Traders
...