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View Full Version : What makes a monster? Shoot down please.



skank
29-05-2007, 10:31
I posted this on Herdstone but this seems THE place to ask about rules. Iím sure this must have come up before but could find nothing with seach.

The lore of beasts is my favourite and I use the 'rune of true beast' quite a lot so knowing what is a monster is quite important to my game.
This is my in my opinion what makes a monster, Iíve probably missed loads so please pick holes in it to let me know.
I want as watertight argument as possible when it comes to the game.

So, from what I can gather, a monster is:

*Always unit size 1 and cannot join other units (but can be ridden by a character or joined by handlers)

*Unit strength is always the same as starting number of wounds.

*On any sized base or no base (as p71)

*A monster cannot also be a chariot, character or any other of the 5 unit types (I have heard talk of monster-characters or monster-infantry but these do not exist in the BRB, there are only 6 unit types: infantry, cavalry, chariots, warmachines, character and monsters).

A monster can cause terror and be a large target but not necessarily. A great eagle is a monster (stated twice in the BRB) and is neither a large target or terrifying.
The monster reaction table is used by some (ridden/goaded) but not all monsters.

The monster movement rule apply to many types of units such as characters on horses or a lone survivor of a infantry unit such as ogres.
Movement is varied in the same unit type, infantry units use standard, skirmish, flyer or random movement. So you can't differentiate between unit types by movement.

All the above would mean the following units are monsters/monster mounts

Treemen, Giants, Great eagles, Unicorns, Dragons, Great stags, Daemonic mounts, Pegasus, Hippogryphs, Manticores, Hydra, Griffons, Spawn, Winged nightmares, Gorgers, Shaggoths, Wyverns, Tomb scorpions, Bone giants, Carnosaurs, Stegadons.

Steamtanks and gyrocopters would be monsters but for their entries stating that they should count as warmachines.

Greater daemons, Treeman ancients and the like are not monsters as they are characters (so can join units unlike monsters). The fact that treeman ancients have a special rule in their entry stopping you joining units actually reinforces this, if they were monsters there would be no need for this special rule.

Festus
29-05-2007, 10:58
Hi

A Monster is US = starting Wounds,

Whether a character can be a monster or not, is debatable (After all, a Character may be Cavalry or Infantry, so why not a Monster?). If not, all Monsters use the Reaction table if not otherwise negated by its own special rules.

A STank is a chariot.

Festus

edit: In your list, normal Pegasi are Flying Cavalry, character ridden Pegasi are Monsters. Otherwise those are all Monsters.

skank
29-05-2007, 12:44
Wow, that was quick. Thanks

I would say a character cannot be cavalry or infantry either. Just uses rules common to cav/inf such as movement.

Atrahasis
29-05-2007, 13:19
The rules do say that units are "divided" into the types listed on page 7, which suggests they are exclusive.

However, the monster section says that some characters follow some of the rules for monsters. It doesn't say which ones unfortunately, so we are hard pressed to apply anything beyond the movement rules.

skank
29-05-2007, 19:06
That's true Atrahasis, and the phrase was changed from 'follow the rules' to 'follow some of the rules'.
As many non monster units use monster movement it's hardly a compelling argument IMHO.

sulla
29-05-2007, 20:16
Wow, that was quick. Thanks

I would say a character cannot be cavalry or infantry either. Just uses rules common to cav/inf such as movement.

So...follows all rules of but isn't? :rolleyes:

skank
29-05-2007, 21:01
Errr... no, follows some rules:
Don't get your point...

A character does not follow all the rules of cav even if mounted, he is not a cav unit.

Negativemoney
30-05-2007, 02:20
A STank is a chariot.


War machine (as stated in on page 50 "Except where noted otherwise, a Stank count as a warmachine in all respects.") Though it does move like a chariot but in no way is it considered to be a chariot (does not get destroyed by S7).




I would say a character cannot be cavalry or infantry either. Just uses rules common to cav/inf such as movement.


Characters that are considered to be either Cavalry or Infantry follow all the rules present for either Cavalry or Infantry in addition to those for characters.

However Monsters are a uniqe issue as Monsters cannot join units but Character's can. This is where the main argument stems from. Also there are people who don't want their 650 point Greater Daemon neutralized by a 15 point magic item.

The other thing I like to always mention is that that statement reffers to a Daemon Prince. In 6th the Daemon Prince was not considered to be a Monster and in the initial printing it had it mentioned that he followed all the rules for a monster. This however was not the case because his wounds did not equal his unit strength. Since this was a contradiction in the rules the statement has been changed to make better sense.



A character does not follow all the rules of cav even if mounted, he is not a cav unit.


I would beg to differ if he is mounted on a cavalry mount he is considered to be a cavalry unit. (this is diffrent than being mounted on a monstrous mount)
Pg 6. "The term cavalry refers to riders mounted on horse-sized creatures that have only 1 Wound on their profil, mounted on a 25mm by 50mm 'cavalry' base." There is no mention that it has to be a non-character.

sulla
30-05-2007, 06:39
Errr... no, follows some rules:
Don't get your point...

A character does not follow all the rules of cav even if mounted, he is not a cav unit.

Well maybe if you pointed out which cavalry rules they don't follow...

Festus
30-05-2007, 07:11
Hi

War machine (as stated in on page 50 "Except where noted otherwise, a Stank count as a warmachine in all respects.") Though it does move like a chariot but in no way is it considered to be a chariot (does not get destroyed by S7).

You are of course right, it just moves as a Chariot, it indeed is a WarMachine.

Festus

skank
31-05-2007, 21:51
They don't get ranks, cannot be joined be characters and are deployed after cav units are just a few.

But it hardly matters if a character did follow all the same rules as a cav unit, he would still be only a character because as Atrahasis said, the unit types are exclusive. There are characters and cav units but no cav-characters in the BRB.

A solo surviving ogre moves like a monster, has the same unit strength as wounds and cannot join units. It is possible to follow all the rules for something yet be another.