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MrBigMr
29-05-2007, 22:41
How do different races (outside of the Imperium) deal with prisoners? I remember Necrons taking people alive to be fed to the C'Tan. Dark Eldar whip the **** out of them. I have the image of Tau being the most humane with their prisoners. But what about the other Eldar?

Chilltouch
29-05-2007, 22:51
The Eldar probably don't take prisoners. Like the Imperium they probably just execute, although it's most likely a clean death rather than being probed with burning hot pokers before before being burned alive as they would be in the Imperium. Expect a clean, bloodless execution from the Eldar by sword.

A neutral shade of black.
29-05-2007, 23:50
I have the image of Tau being the most humane with their prisoners.

If you consider "reeducation" (read: brainwashing) camps and the occasional claiming they're terminally ill and giving them a shot of something deadly, sure. ;)

mistformsquirrel
30-05-2007, 00:04
Eldar - I doubt take prisoners unless they need intelligence (something I imagine they rarely need given the farseers ability to probe the future) - otherwise you probably just die on the battlefield; or are left half-alive for whoever or whatever finds you.

Necrons - You're C'tan fodder; or perhaps flayed one skin.

Dark Eldar - Does it really bear thinking about?

Chaos - Depends on the god really...

Khornate Chaos - you probably aren't going to BE a prisoner for long/at all.

Tzeentch... probably unpleasant magical experiments; or used as a pawn in some way or other (you may even be released... except your mind has been wiped of the fact that you're carrying some sort of special tracking device/bomb inside you...)

Slaanesh - Much like the DE... you really don't want to think about it.

Nurgle - Most probably horribly diseased for the amusement of the cultists - they probably poke at your boils with sticks now and again; but generally just leave you to moan alot.

Undivided - Most probably similar to the Imperium; figuring out any information they can get from you, some extra torture for fun, and then an execution. If it was the Word Bearers that took you... probably a much nastier execution in the form of a daemonic sacrifice.

Imperium - Torture you for information, then dispose of you. Exceptions being specific groups - like Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplains trying to make Fallen repent.

Tau - I see them giving you options. Join the Greater Good - and if you prove loyal earn a real place in Tau society after a probationary period; or sit in a jail cell for a long long time. Mostly I get this notion from the little fluff I've read on the Damocles Gulf crusade, where that was pretty much the choice offered the Guardsman who were left behind.

Just my thoughts >.>

swordwind
30-05-2007, 00:09
Where as the Imperium will take you prisoner, rough you up a bit, make you repent and then shoot you, the Eldar just shoot you. Ork prisoners go to the workshops to build more gunz or get put in a wierd mind reading machine like the intro to Final Liberation.

Pain
30-05-2007, 00:26
... or you are used as food. Living Food doesn't spoil so fast.

nightgant98c
30-05-2007, 00:43
Word Bearers might also try to convert you.

Elanthanis
30-05-2007, 00:51
Tyranids on the other hand take you in as though you were one of them...

to be distributed among the hive fleet while a norn queen analyzes your genetic code to further enhance the broods.

kikkoman
30-05-2007, 00:57
the 4th ed codex makes mention of how a Pirate Prince that defeated an imperial colony allowed them to surrender, then used his fleet to relocated them to another planet.

It was part of a line about how the Eldar vary greatly, some will take no prisoners and just kill everyone, others will feel compassionate and spare lives.

Heru Talon
30-05-2007, 01:04
I have to disagree with mistformsquirrel, I think the majority of Chaos groups would ship you off as a slave.

mistformsquirrel
30-05-2007, 01:23
I feel sorta dumb that I completely forgot about slaves. ... Yah, they'd probably do that too; though I'd say Khorne and Slaanesh that would be 'iffy' as they have 'other uses' for you.

For the rest though, yah, you're right >.> my bad.

GodofWarTx
30-05-2007, 03:40
The chaos use a slave-driven economy, if you can call it that.

Tau i think would be one of the most bitter imprisonment of all, given the illusion of free-will and a choice, all while told with smiling faces that you, the prisoner, are important. ;)

Nazguire
30-05-2007, 03:53
Word Bearers might also try to convert you.

The IA basically says that they don't 'try' and convert you. They 'do' convert you. And then are made to build cathedrals and other dedications to the Chaos Gods as the main focus of your now mercilessly short life.

Goq Gar
30-05-2007, 04:02
Tau: See the Battlefleet gothic Section on tau, it has a running story about an entire Imperial ship's crew being taken prisoner, and when they decided to join the empire they were IMMEDIATLEY welcomed like brothers, began sharing with the tau crew, recieved new uniforms, while the imperial captain looked on in awe.

Adra
30-05-2007, 09:23
What about orks? well slavery i guess...made to work on warmachines for the orks....god that sounds bad.

GodofWarTx
30-05-2007, 09:56
Tau: See the Battlefleet gothic Section on tau, it has a running story about an entire Imperial ship's crew being taken prisoner, and when they decided to join the empire they were IMMEDIATLEY welcomed like brothers, began sharing with the tau crew, recieved new uniforms, while the imperial captain looked on in awe.

and yet its funny, how the Vespid "communication helmets" on the strain leaders are implied to function more as Mind Control devices ;)

Tau believe in equality, with the Tau race being "more equal" than others, of course. :evilgrin:

Morris
30-05-2007, 10:11
If the eldar consider it prudent they will take a prisoner and simply imprison them until they die.

Orks simply beat you or get you to work.

DE Torture you in all the most horrific ways you can possibly imagine.

Tau just imprisn yu until you accept the greater good

izandral
30-05-2007, 10:51
ok that's that's all fine for POW but how about regular prisoners. What happens if you're caught stealing or fighting in a bar or whatever small stuff ??

Ravenous
30-05-2007, 11:00
There is one bit of fluff that the eldar killed everything that fought against them, and those you surrenderd were transported to another world with the message basically saying "go back and you die".

I guess it depends on the situation, if you are their turf they will just get you the hell off and leave you be. If they need you gone then they kill you.

MvS
30-05-2007, 13:50
I would regard the Tau as being similar to contemporary democratic states in their treatment of non-Tau prisoners. There is a standard of care that is probably guaranteed and they may well be more ordered and humane than many other races, yet just as there is abuse and exceptions to the rules in our world and time, I am sure these exist equally amongst the Tau.

I can see interrogations bordering on torture, or actually BEING torture (depending on how one defines torture of course), depending on how important and urgent the needed intelligence is. That said, I would imagine that the Tau would be more predisposed to the use of sophisticated lie-detectors, truth serums and extremely adept interrogators using mind games (or even 'brainwashing') to get the truth out of prisoners rather than crude physical abuse.

With regard to just accepting surrendered soldiers with open arms, whereas I would imagine this happens in some cases, we have to remember that the Tau aren't stupid and they will want to make sure that none of the people they accept into their Greater Good are in fact agent provocateurs, spies, terrorists, saboteurs or assassins.

Tyco
30-05-2007, 14:01
Blood for the Blood God :)

BarbedHawk
30-05-2007, 14:45
Most races in 40k wouldn't imprison you for a drunken brawl, that's usually everyday life. i.e. Orks, Chaos etc.

For the others, I expect prison for the Imperium for a minor offence, anything greater such as murder are usually given a last chance to fight for the IG, (The Last Chancers),executed or shipped off to god forsaken worlds.

The Tau, as mentioned before, probably use all sort of brain washing techniques and re-education camps to turn you back to the greater good and basically reform you. Murderers, however, I'm not too sure of. Perhaps similar to the IG treatment the Imperium have.

Luthien
30-05-2007, 14:46
exodites - kill you
craftworld - kill you
dark- kill you very slowly:evilgrin:
harlequins - paint you ridiculous colours then kill you, in the most humourous manner possible :D

heretics bane
30-05-2007, 19:50
well orks you automaticly get turned into the next mortar ammo or extra armour for a tank,chaos just a deamon sacrifice or the next person pulling the defilers new leg to the forge,imperium possibly aco-fallegation or next person carrying the massive suicide bomb,eldar wouldnt take you just leave you there unless your a walking portal for a deamon incursion then studie then kill you.

BarbedHawk
30-05-2007, 20:07
well orks you automaticly get turned into the next mortar ammo or extra armour for a tank,chaos just a deamon sacrifice or the next person pulling the defilers new leg to the forge,imperium possibly aco-fallegation or next person carrying the massive suicide bomb,eldar wouldnt take you just leave you there unless your a walking portal for a deamon incursion then studie then kill you.

I doubt the Eldar would study them, that sounds more like the Tau way. The Eldar would more likely just slaughter you where you stood.

AyatollahofRockinRolla
30-05-2007, 21:42
With orks it would matter if you won the drunken brawl. If you did well enough you might become a Nob. If you lose you get a trip to the Doc for "healing". The orks got universal health care whether they want the "surgery" or not.

Wolflord Havoc
31-05-2007, 13:24
In IA 3 the Talos Campaign the IG Prisoners taken were offered a choice of joining the lightly armed Tau PDF and become loyal vassels of the Tau Empire or spend the rest of their lives working in the Mines of Talos.

I see the Tau as being more like a communist version of the Early Roman Empire (with out the brutal killings and games etc) and quite happy to torture or kill prisoners if it was in the interests of the Greater good.

The Vespid, Kroot and Humans etc are all equals within the Empire as are the Tau except that they are more equal than the others.

As for Prisoners - the Imperium are extremely Xenophobic and would probably not take any prisoners unless specifically directed to by HQ or =I=

Human Prisoners in the Imperium depending on the situation might be killed out of hand, Publicilly executed or punished, assigned to the Penal legion, Mind wiped and turned into servitors, mind wiped and turned into Arco flagellents or treated as slaves and assigned to hazardous work such as mining or some such.

Orks - Use their prisoners as food/Slave Labour/target practice

Nids - Return their prisoners to the gene pool

Chaos - various and unpleasent

Eldar - perhaps killed out of hand on a whim or simply ignored once a campaign is over.

Dark Eldar - Will kill all prisoners.....eventually

Necron - unless the prisoner is a 'blank' they would kill on sight - Blanks are returned to become pariahs of the new wave of Necron Warriors.

Sabbad
31-05-2007, 14:00
I'm not buying this whole "Tau claim to be equal to their alien allies but actually reckon they're superior". I haven't seen anything to suggest this is the case at all - their equality complex seems to me to be genuine.

This isn't to say that I dispute their philosophy's parallels with Communism, or that I subscribe to their philosophy - I just haven't seen any evidence for this viewpoint at all.

In reference to their treatment of Tau criminals - I don't think there are any. Either the Tau subscribe to the Greater Good and don't commit crime, or they become rebels and are hunted mercilessly by the Fire Caste. I can imagine big show trials here, in which caught rebels are forced to confess their crimes before being bumped off quietly behind the scenes...

As for Demiurg, Kroot, Vespids etc (ie. other allied alien races) I imagine the Tau let them run their society as they see fit. I imagine that Kroot deviants rarely live to regret their crimes...

MrBigMr
31-05-2007, 14:10
I'm not buying this whole "Tau claim to be equal to their alien allies but actually reckon they're superior". I haven't seen anything to suggest this is the case at all - their equality complex seems to me to be genuine.
They want the people to do as they do and won't give them the best stuff they have. I don't think that it's some universal rule, but somehow I get the feeling that the overall feel is that the Tau feel that they're the light shining in the dark corners of the universe.


In reference to their treatment of Tau criminals - I don't think there are any. Either the Tau subscribe to the Greater Good and don't commit crime, or they become rebels and are hunted mercilessly by the Fire Caste. I can imagine big show trials here, in which caught rebels are forced to confess their crimes before being bumped off quietly behind the scenes...
Why can't the Tau commit crimes? Because the system says they can't? Christians commit crimes, even if God himself has given them rules that they cannnot break. Greater Good is just a philosophy. It would keep crime down, but it's silly to think that there wouldn't be any.


As for Demiurg, Kroot, Vespids etc (ie. other allied alien races) I imagine the Tau let them run their society as they see fit. I imagine that Kroot deviants rarely live to regret their crimes...
The Tau are spreading their beliefs into the alien societys. That's why the Kroot works as mercs, because they can't get to eat stuff as much with the Tau as they do get to with other races.

Sabbad
31-05-2007, 14:42
They want the people to do as they do

Naturally. They believe they are out to save the universe.


and won't give them the best stuff they have.

They helped improve Kroot Rifles. They let Shapers carry pulse rifles and carbines. They helped make Vespid weapons and the Communion Helms. They let Gue'la allies use Tau Body armour. They also respect (to some extent) the customs of the races they ally with, which is why their allies aren't Tau clones. I really don't understand where you are coming from here.


Why can't the Tau commit crimes? Because the system says they can't?

Pretty much, yep.


Christians commit crimes, even if God himself has given them rules that they cannnot break.

Yes, but Christians are human. Tau are not.


Greater Good is just a philosophy. It would keep crime down, but it's silly to think that there wouldn't be any.

It's more than a philosophy to the Tau. It permeates their society and their whole existence entirely. They are also terrified of returning to the Dark Ages. They are semi-brainwashed by the Ethereals into absolute obedience, and scared of the anarchy that would result if they did not.

There are some Tau that commit crimes. They are rebels, those who reject the Greater Good, who are hunted by the Hunter Cadres like any other enemy.

My opinion is based on the preclusion of policemen or enforcers in the five Castes of Tau society, and the lack of evidence that such roles come under one of the existing Castes. There was a discussion about this on the Inquisitor forum incidentally, which might be worth a look at. Failing that a whole new thread might be appropriate...


The Tau are spreading their beliefs into the alien societys. That's why the Kroot works as mercs, because they can't get to eat stuff as much with the Tau as they do get to with other races.

And yet the fact that the Tau allow the Kroot to cannibalise at all (especially when you consider how much they despise it) demonstrates some level of tolerance and respect for alien cultures different to their own.

For the record I believe that "The Greater Good" philosophy is flawed and borderline-unethical, but that's for a separate discussion.

Wolflord Havoc
31-05-2007, 14:59
Some pretty good argument there Sabbad especialy "Tau are not Human" you are absolutely correct to point this out. Its very easy to want to draw parrellels with our own history.

Perhaps the Tau's mindset with regards to 'The Greater good' stems from their near self - destruction during the time when the Etherals appeared and 'saved' the entire Tau Race. Much in the same way in which Mankind has a dislike and mistrust of AI Machines and Advanced technology in the 41st millenium (unless it is is being ministered by the priesthood of Mars) stemming from the Dark Age of Technology when Mankind nearly destroyed itself with its own brilliance.

MrBigMr
31-05-2007, 15:21
The Tau were savage just a while ago and the Ethereals just drug them into believing them. Take the Ethereals away and you return get very different things, such as the Farsight Enclave. Nothing too 'alien' about that, realy.
It's not like the Tau aren't tempted. I've been told (I'm trying to get a copy of my own) that in Fire Warrior there's a passage where a fire warrior thinks that a water caste diplomat is so hot he'd almost want to break the "no intercaste hanky panky" rule. Not too 'alien' there either.
Greater Good is just a social philosophy enforced by the Ethereals. They came up with it and keep it up. Take away the Ethereals and we'll see how well the system holds. The Tau aren't some "higher beings". They lived in caves and hunted their food like everyone else and just because they fly space ships and have ray guns, don't make them any better than what they were.

Sabbad
31-05-2007, 15:33
<sigh> I've said many times that I disagree and disapprove of the Tau philosophy, so no I am NOT arguing that Tau are superior to us...

In reference to your main argument. You're probably right. If it weren't for the Ethereals, then the Tau Greater Good Philosophy would collapse.

I'm not sure how that is relevant to this discussion though - because THERE ARE Tau Ethereals, and I can't see that changing any time soon.

MrBigMr
31-05-2007, 16:23
I'm not sure how that is relevant to this discussion though - because THERE ARE Tau Ethereals, and I can't see that changing any time soon.
Yes yes. Still I have a hard time believing that not a single Tau couldn't disobey the orders. There aren't Ethereals around all the time. Or do they sit in the central airconditioning hub of every building and spreading their scent around to make all Tau into Hindu cows.
There little social disorder, but that doesn't stop individuals from getting greedy and breaking the rules. But that's just my oppinion on things.

Raion
31-05-2007, 18:09
Necron - unless the prisoner is a 'blank' they would kill on sight - Blanks are returned to become pariahs of the new wave of Necron Warriors.

I strongely agree that this will happen if the prisoner appear to be a 'blank' otherwise they will be the fodder of the great C'tan Gods.

Pain
31-05-2007, 19:02
I do think that the Imperium takes prisoners, even Xenos, from time to time. Nothing better than a public "evil Xenos"-BBQ (Tau on a stick ... ehm stake) to keep the moral high an remind the loyal subjects of His Imperium what to do with this filthy aliens.

stormblade
31-05-2007, 19:07
If Tau have hooves does that mean that they are related to horses?

Perhaps both horses and Tau were created by the Old Ones to battle chaos.

El Presedente
31-05-2007, 19:10
the prisoner

If anyone hasn't seen this classic of a series, then shame on you.

Back on topic, its exacly how I see the tau treating a human prisoner, living out the rest of your days with the impression of free will, but not being free at all, plus the occasional mind controling.

They are a caste based society after all, so your no use to them until you fill a specific role.

Orks could probably be bargained with, depending on the clan.

Slannessh could be a dream come true if you play your cards right, but only if you convert.

Some Imperials may let you go if you repent or prove you had no other options, and a Xeno could talk their way out in certain cercumstances, see Dawn of War.

Nid's may let you off with a strain of genes to help produce the next generation of hybrids.

Necrons may make you a pariah.

Tzeentch has designs on you.

MrBigMr
31-05-2007, 19:19
I do think that the Imperium takes prisoners, even Xenos, from time to time. Nothing better than a public "evil Xenos"-BBQ (Tau on a stick ... ehm stake) to keep the moral high an remind the loyal subjects of His Imperium what to do with this filthy aliens.
Why does this remind me of Conspiracy?
"They go in red and come out pink."


If Tau have hooves does that mean that they are related to horses?

Perhaps both horses and Tau were created by the Old Ones to battle chaos.
No. They're related to antelope like animals. The Tau have cloven hooves. If you look closely, they have 3 toes, two that they stop on and one that's on the inner side of the leg. Comparing it to an antelope hoof, they're very much alike.

stormblade
31-05-2007, 19:37
No. They're related to antelope like animals. The Tau have cloven hooves. If you look closely, they have 3 toes, two that they stop on and one that's on the inner side of the leg. Comparing it to an antelope hoof, they're very much alike.

- Naturally, my apologies.

So it is Tau/Antelope/ Old Ones conspiracy:D