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View Full Version : Grimgor - just what the hell



Ruroni
30-05-2007, 18:48
does anyone else think that his points are awefully low for such an unstoppable killing machine? Maybe it's just cause I play ogres but every time I play orcs the game result is 'hooray, grimgor wins'. I have no problem with anything else really in the army.

steeler556
30-05-2007, 18:54
just put a sacrifical unit of bulls and let him charge them, beat them and have them flee, he just pursue which typically puts him and his unit out of position, then coutner charge them in the flanks (but not in the front where Grimgor is). Without Grimgors CR results and no rank bonus due to being charged in the flank the unit usually breaks and runs (thats what happens to me when I use him).

While the Immunce to Psychology is useful, I found Stubborn in his previous incantation much more useful. In a perfect work he would have both (like maneaters), but his points would definitely need to increase, probably to about 500 points.

At 375 points he's definitely underpriced now.

skott4991
30-05-2007, 19:19
Works just as well to hit him back with your tyrant.

Heretic Burner
30-05-2007, 19:23
He is a lot worse now than his previous incarnation. He is a massive point sink, particularly when stuck in the horrible black orc unit he is bound to be a part of. They have dreadful movement compared to ogres. Quite frankly a good bull charge shreds his unit and should easily give you a win. However the best advice is to feed throwaway units of gnoblars at the overpriced unit and overpower the rest of the army. Very poor idea taking Grimgor in anything less than 3.5K games.

mav1971
30-05-2007, 20:04
Though Grimgor is pretty tough, he's not that tough. I had a friend that always took him. So it didn't take long for me to come up with stuff to take him out. The one battle I'm most proud of is my demon army of Khorne with a Bloodthirster. The best part is my Bloodthirster didn't do that much in the battle, it was all demon foot soldiers. There also are certain magic item combos you could experiment with.

DesertDirge
30-05-2007, 20:06
well you don't have to play against Grimgor.. he's oponents consent.

Da GoBBo
30-05-2007, 20:10
Unstoppable maybe, but since he's on foot he won't see much combat. To many points to handle 1 or 2 units, even at "only" 375 pts. Gorbad rides a boar though and has a reeeaaally great miniature, meaning he can more easily hop on to the next unit. Better special rules too. Way better buy for less points too.

Heretic Burner
30-05-2007, 20:15
well you don't have to play against Grimgor.. he's oponents consent.

Nope not any longer. Well, no more than the consent needed to get any Warhammer game going.

Ruroni
30-05-2007, 20:20
just put a sacrifical unit of bulls and let him charge them, beat them and have them flee, he just pursue which typically puts him and his unit out of position, then coutner charge them in the flanks (but not in the front where Grimgor is). Without Grimgors CR results and no rank bonus due to being charged in the flank the unit usually breaks and runs (thats what happens to me when I use him).

While the Immunce to Psychology is useful, I found Stubborn in his previous incantation much more useful. In a perfect work he would have both (like maneaters), but his points would definitely need to increase, probably to about 500 points.

At 375 points he's definitely underpriced now.

Please forgive me, I'm much more well versed in 40k than fantasy, but dosen't being immune to psychology make him not able to fall back? or is a break test totally unrelated to psychology?

SevenSins
30-05-2007, 20:28
break is seperate, so there you see the obvious difference between "immune to psychology" and "unbreakable"

Ruroni
30-05-2007, 20:32
oh boy, someone needs to go read the rulebook... :rolleyes:

<--- this guy. thanks for pointing out my dummyness. That makes him a good bit less invulnerable.

Shallowain
30-05-2007, 20:36
well you don't have to play against Grimgor.. he's oponents consent.

Not anymore, He is a regular Lord choice in the current armybook

steeler556
30-05-2007, 23:37
well you don't have to play against Grimgor.. he's oponents consent.


Definitely not. Grimgor is an official special character and does not require your opponent's permission to field him.

sun tzu
31-05-2007, 00:52
I think Grimgor is over-rated

steeler556
31-05-2007, 02:06
Works just as well to hit him back with your tyrant.


With Grimgor's 'strike first' ability and 7 S7 attacks with hatred, not including Big Names or Magic Items Grimgor is likely to easily beat a Tyrant in a challenge.

Shimmergloom
31-05-2007, 02:26
Not that likely. He has the edge but, a tyrant with the tenderiser, mawseeker name and wyrdstone would hit him on 4's, wound on 2's and force him to save on 5+/5+. Then do D3 wounds. (assume the sword gnoblars do nothing).

You should do an unsaved wound each round and on average that D3 will = 2 wounds.

A lucky roll and grimgor is dead in round one.

He will strike first though so his 7 attacks will hit with re-rolls about 6 times. With 4 wounds done to you before saves. You should save one with the wyrdstone, so 3 wounds to you.

If you can get a butcher to heal one of your wounds or make you +1T and sTubborn then you have the edge. You can't count on that, but still it's pretty even.

A little luck and the tenderiser will kill him in round 1.

The main ways to beat Grimgor though is to beat his unit and make them flee. Or just throw worthless crap at him. He's only M4. It's like fighting a dwarf king. The best way to fight them is to NOT fight them.

Dead Man Walking
31-05-2007, 03:45
I used Slaanesh magic to make him attack his own unit 3 times, then I made what little was left of his orcs walk into woods where he spent the rest of the game. :skull:

sulla
31-05-2007, 04:40
does anyone else think that his points are awefully low for such an unstoppable killing machine? Maybe it's just cause I play ogres but every time I play orcs the game result is 'hooray, grimgor wins'. I have no problem with anything else really in the army.


It depends on the army you play against. My elves would just run him and his unit around the field all day with fast cav; block,flee,block,flee...

My beasts on the other hand would probably try to draw him into a combat with a sacrificial unit (90pt beastherd or something similar) and but time to get a flank charge with a super herd (2-3 characters) or some minotaurs. I usually try to beat uber characters in units by hitting the unit in the flank so hard that they break without me ever having to fight the character. (That's the plan anyway).

Gratnuk Ironfist
31-05-2007, 06:05
It's like fighting a dwarf king. The best way to fight them is to NOT fight them.


As a dwarf king I don't know whether that is an insult or a compliment.:D

The hardest thing about grimgor is the strike first. Ifyou can use a weapon that strikes first and causes at leats D3 wounds then you will have cut him down quite a bit.

What armies can use killing blow, would that be any good if the character or modle with it can survive being hacked at by grimgor?

elvenmagi69
31-05-2007, 06:31
i dont know how lucky your tyrant is but 7 strength 7 attacks that strike 1st is pretty unstoppable.. .. ..
+ i would never risk mawseeker on my tyrant espeicaly that your using him as the key in your plan.

Ninth Eagle
31-05-2007, 06:35
does anyone else think that his points are awefully low for such an unstoppable killing machine? Maybe it's just cause I play ogres but every time I play orcs the game result is 'hooray, grimgor wins'. I have no problem with anything else really in the army.

Hi everyone i'm new here and everything but even IF his points are low, dosen't he still have to pay for a unit of black orcs which he can't leave something similar that?

Shockwave
31-05-2007, 22:14
As a killing machine he is very damn hard, but he needs things to kill. As for the afore mentioned Tenderising, Mawseeker Tyrant? You, in most case's, will see him with the Jade Lion for the re-roll. If you talk about having the benefit of Toothcracker then it becomes a my counter to your counter. Very pointless.

You can't go far wrong if with think of Grimgor as a wingless Bloodthirster in terms of killing power.

Ninth Eagle, You are correct.

Grimtuff
31-05-2007, 22:30
well you don't have to play against Grimgor.. he's oponents consent.

No special character in an army book has been opponent's consent since 6th edition.

Ninth Eagle, he can leave them IIRC. but with characters being able to be shot at freely now it's a bit of a death sentence against some armies just for the sake of extra manueverability.

theunwantedbeing
31-05-2007, 22:36
7 st7 strike first hatred attacks.......basically means you dont charge him from the front,ever,or your going to get a kicking.
Seeing as he has to take a unit with him and now doesnt get that guaranteed +2 to combat resoloution he's a lot less hard than he used to be.
Although he is a touch cheaper as well.....seemingly far too cheap for the stats he has.
t5 1+ save,5+ ward save
Stubborn unit,immunity to psychology(right?)

His only real drawback is that movement rate of 4 of his.

Anyway....you flank his unit with something capable of mashing his unit as horribly as possible,and pray that he breaks from combat.
Or just never let him fight anything worth any points.

Going off what grimgor looks like it seems there's a very good chance that a bloodthirster is now going to be a damn signt more scary in 7th edition,which will be a good thing.
Roll on 10 st10 attacks at ws10 with hatred,killing blow and D3 wounds.

Wadders
01-06-2007, 04:00
Arch Lector of sigmar on the war altar

Van horstman Speculum
Mace of Helstrum

Challenge him.....

No chance

Kirth
01-06-2007, 10:07
Even flanking Grimgor's unit may turn out to be pointless. I know if I used him, I'd use his unit as an anchor for my battle line and put him on a corner so if his unit was flanked, he would be in b2b.

As was said before, block and flee would be your best bet. Lead him around because he is so slow.

Franco
01-06-2007, 12:40
dosen't he still have to pay for a unit of black orcs which he can't leave something similar that?

Well in the new rule book, he doesn't have too!!!
But it is better if you do.
I have never used grimgor, the way to beat him is by outnumbering him, and rear/flank charge. Beat him in combat resolution and catch him up. So a fast cavalry unit and a strong unit will get him. But what does unbreakable mean??? If it that he cant flee, then i have no idea how to, but i dont care because im O&G!!!

Dranthar
01-06-2007, 12:50
Last Tuesday my Night Goblins faced off against Grimgor. Even with catastrophic magic (double 1 on the miscast table first turn = both my mages dying along with a pile of other models!) and ineffective shooting I still managed to wipe his army out.

Grimgor and his cronies were run down on the last turn after being charged by a squig herd, a giant, a goblin boss on a wolf and a big regiment of Night goblins.

Grimgor is overated IMO. Sure he can kill alot on his own but his cost together with those black orcs he has to hang around with are a major points sink.

Seriously, if an all-goblin army can kill him then everyone else has no excuse. :D

Lord Tzeentch
01-06-2007, 17:21
Lol come on to be fair he' really the only good SC O&G have. I find that a dragon in the flank with a lord on top with Berserker Sword normally does it for me:)

kroq'gar
01-06-2007, 17:31
Arch Lector of sigmar on the war altar

Van horstman Speculum
Mace of Helstrum

Challenge him.....

No chance

actually not the mace- waste of those 7 attacks, i've found the bane of every character in the game to be

van host
sword of fate...

nominate them, then challange.

against grimgor... 7attacks that hit on 3+ with hatred, always wound on 2+ no armour saves allowed, 1 wound turns into d3.

potential 21 wounds...

Gratnuk Ironfist
01-06-2007, 22:44
Looks like we are slowly dismantling the mighty grimgor:D .

Kirth
02-06-2007, 07:40
actually not the mace- waste of those 7 attacks, i've found the bane of every character in the game to be

van host
sword of fate...

nominate them, then challange.

against grimgor... 7attacks that hit on 3+ with hatred, always wound on 2+ no armour saves allowed, 1 wound turns into d3.

potential 21 wounds...

Now that is just plain mean.

scarletsquig
02-06-2007, 08:47
Grimgor is about right for points. The fact that he's a crazy killing machine is more than justified by him being forced into a unit for the whole game, and being avoidable.

They could even shove his stats up a bit higher and it wouldn't make much difference - he'd still slaughter anything that charges him dead-on, just a little more convincingly.

This is the orc that took out Archaon, he deserves something special :)

Da GoBBo
02-06-2007, 10:18
actually not the mace- waste of those 7 attacks, i've found the bane of every character in the game to be

van host
sword of fate...

nominate them, then challange.

against grimgor... 7attacks that hit on 3+ with hatred, always wound on 2+ no armour saves allowed, 1 wound turns into d3.

potential 21 wounds...

but can he take a punch himself? Grimgor strikes first and, apparantly, does an average of 3 wounds on tyrant. should be enough to knock most things out in one turn.

Reinnon
02-06-2007, 10:43
another good combo is VHS, holy relic and lore of beasts.

bear anger and challenge and any character is pretty much dead

Kirth
02-06-2007, 11:44
Bleh, all you have to do is nullify his magic weapon and he becomes strength 5 and no longer strikes first. There are plenty of things to kill his armor and weapon. Then all you have to do is put 3 wounds on a T5 Orc before he stomps ya. :rolleyes:

Tames him a little, but not much.

Franco
02-06-2007, 19:37
He is a good character to use when you are against noobs. They don't know how to handle him and you can kill half of his army with grimgor. And he may not be the best character around, but for 375pts, compared to others he is good!!!

Dranthar
03-06-2007, 05:31
Bleh, all you have to do is nullify his magic weapon and he becomes strength 5 and no longer strikes first. There are plenty of things to kill his armor and weapon.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the only way to get rid of a magic weapon is to Cast Law of Gold form the Metal Lore on his unit? There are a few problems with that. Firstly not all armies have access to the Lore of metal, and even then there's no guarantee of getting the spell you want. Secondly there's a 50% chance that it will only work for a turn. And thirdly your opponent gets to choose what magic item is affected in that unit - so if he really wanted to he could instead pick grimgors blood-forged armour, or even whatever magic banner might be in the unit.

Seriously, you don't need any wierd and situational little tricks to stop grimgor, you just need to engage him on your own turns or let him kill things that will not make his points back. Neither of these should be too difficult considering how expensive and slow his unit is.

Wadders
03-06-2007, 06:35
actually not the mace- waste of those 7 attacks, i've found the bane of every character in the game to be

van host
sword of fate...

nominate them, then challange.

against grimgor... 7attacks that hit on 3+ with hatred, always wound on 2+ no armour saves allowed, 1 wound turns into d3.

potential 21 wounds...

I get the choice of 7 attacks or 1, would depend on the situation....

I actually prefer using the sword of justice and the shield of the gorgon.

-1 attack to him, making 1 and then re-roll wounds for me on top of hate

Wadders
03-06-2007, 06:37
but can he take a punch himself? Grimgor strikes first and, apparantly, does an average of 3 wounds on tyrant. should be enough to knock most things out in one turn.

Grimgor will now only have 2 attacks at WS 4, S 4, T 4 and I have his WS S, T, A, and I

The harder the character in the challenge the better against the VHS the better

Irennicus
03-06-2007, 07:13
Lol come on to be fair he' really the only good SC O&G have. I find that a dragon in the flank with a lord on top with Berserker Sword normally does it for me:)

I'd actually think Skarsnik is their best SC right now.

Da GoBBo
03-06-2007, 12:47
Grimgor will now only have 2 attacks at WS 4, S 4, T 4 and I have his WS S, T, A, and I

The harder the character in the challenge the better against the VHS the better

yes ... but what about the 21 wound thing. No use if ye get slaughtered

Mad Doc Grotsnik
03-06-2007, 15:15
Like any large points sink, just avoid him as much as possible. Yeah, he's hard, but if you can manage to avoid him and his regiment, he is worthless.

Easier said than done like.

Fast Cavalry are one option to take him out. Equip them with Spears, hit him in the rear, or at a push, the flank, and you stand a pretty good chance of sending him packing. At worst, they cannot kill you all, and because of Hatred, they HAVE to pursue, meaning you can draw him horribly out of position, and expose the flank to a more hard core combat unit (like Heavy Cavalry)

Note that being tactics, my suggestions aren't fool proof, but they can work!

heretics bane
03-06-2007, 16:45
how about cannon balling him in the face? or just avoid him and shoot his unit up then smash them in the flank

Brother Siccarius
04-06-2007, 06:04
Arch Lector of sigmar on the war altar

Van horstman Speculum
Mace of Helstrum

Challenge him.....

No chance

Look, if an empire player challenges you, it doesn't matter what kind of characters you have in there, you accept with the unit champion! If it's just a character and not a character in a unit attacking you, who in a challenge can't get more than 5-6 combat resolution, don't bother worrying what he has, you're going to win even if the character does beat the snot out of your unit champ.

Nagash333
04-06-2007, 19:07
How about a High Elf Prince with the Null Stone on a dragon?

Brother Siccarius
04-06-2007, 19:28
How about a High Elf Prince with the Null Stone on a dragon?

Again, if he charges, the most he can get is the maximum of five over kill, which will again be difficult as I accept the challenge with my unit champion. Whichever model that strikes first in line will get their full attacks, probably kill the champion, and then the second one (likely his mount) wont get any attacks as the champion is already dead. With the elf combo it's likely you'll only get two or three combat resolution from overkill, if at all.

Then it comes down to winning and losing, I start off with three ranks (when you've got a special character that strengthens them, why not go all out?), a banner, warbanner, outnumber, and so I have six to your two or three. Depending on how lucky you are it'll come down to the dice roll, but I'll likely win the combat.

The things are:

- Grimgor is for killing lots of troops, not characters, so if someone challenges in a unit that has Grimgor, I will accept with the unit champion because it just plain makes sense.

- If you do nullify Grimgor's weapon, he's still a powerhouse just based on his stats. On the other hand, if you only nullify his armor, hes still got the axe and his awesome stats.

- His weakness is being in units, which means that all you have to do is hit his unit from a side where Grimgor cannot attack you from. Don't bother going after the mean green himself, hit his unit.

mav1971
05-06-2007, 16:13
As a chaos player i'd take the chaos runeshield which nullifies his magic weapon's abilities.

Lord Tzeentch
05-06-2007, 16:39
Id just throw magic at him then charge the unit in the rear with my Tzeentch lord and his pet dragon. Still he beat Archaon so why is it that he carn't be as hard as nails?

Franco
05-06-2007, 19:35
His weakness is being in units, which means that all you have to do is hit his unit from a side where Grimgor cannot attack you from. Don't bother going after the mean green himself, hit his unit.

People forget that in the new army book, he doesn't have to go around in a unit. I would still but he doesn't have to. Another bonus is that he is only one lord space!!!

Thousandth Son
05-06-2007, 21:43
Having played with and against Grimgor several times, I would not recommend the ploy of "avoid, and get everything else" Usually when you have Grimgor and his unit, that is roughly 750 VP's that you haven't gotten. It almost assures the Orc player a draw, or even a win.

As has been said, Grimgor's weakness is the unit that he is in the middle of. Multiple flank charges, or magic, or shooting are your best best at doing damage and avoiding the Green Meanie. :p

Brother Siccarius
06-06-2007, 04:58
People forget that in the new army book, he doesn't have to go around in a unit. I would still but he doesn't have to. Another bonus is that he is only one lord space!!!

No, but almost no one is silly enough to put their greatest fighting character outside of a unit where he's going to get shot with almost everything for some quick victory points.

Oh, and a lot of the characters people are saying they'd throw at him (Archaon, Malekith) are the ones that haven't been toned down by the revisions of a new edition books.

sulla
06-06-2007, 05:14
Oh, and a lot of the characters people are saying they'd throw at him (Archaon, Malekith) are the ones that haven't been toned down by the revisions of a new edition books.

Gee, I sure hope they don't tone Malekith down too much more in the next DE book. He's barely worth the ink he's written on as is...

kroq'gar
13-06-2007, 11:07
Look, if an empire player challenges you, it doesn't matter what kind of characters you have in there, you accept with the unit champion!.

Its called the hochland longrifle- works a treat. (all my marksmen carry them, and sometimes my outrider champion)

Empire are well suited to killing powerful heros on foot... helblasters, batterys, cannons, steam tanks- plus hero killing items like sword of fate and and van host spectrum, or the combination of them.

March block and blast.