PDA

View Full Version : What army - from unit lists - competative?



Treadhead_1st
30-05-2007, 19:35
Ok, my Empire army fell through, and had to sell the few things I bought for it for some emergency funds.

Now, after my Exams are done, I will have a bit of spare cash lying around.

So, I thought I could get back into Fantasy, and, I am afraid to say I'm a little bored with Humans (Imperial Guard/Space Marines 40K, Gondor/Rohan LotR) and decided to go for a true "Fantasy" army.

Now I have a list of all the armies I have contemplated, for semi-competitive play (local tournaments, GT rules though), all involving "fantasy" creatures and monsters to one degree of the other. Please could you give opinions on which you think has potentially the strongest build versus all-comers? These are only rough outlines for now, showing the kinds of units I would like the final lists to include.

Will be for a 2,000 point army (eventually)

Beasts of Chaos
Centigors
Chariots
Minotaurs
Shaggoths

Dark Elves
Beastmaster on Manticore
Black Guard
Cold One Chariots
Cold One Knights
Highborn on Cold One
2x Hydras

High Elves
Dragon Princes
Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers
Eltharion the Blind
Phoenix Guard

Orcs & Goblins
4x Goblin Spear Chukkas
Goblin Wolf Riders
Orc Shamans
Goblin Chariots/Boar Boyz
Giant
Trolls?

Anyway, which of the unit lists do you reckon will have the most potential (of course, this varies with what support elements are chosen, that can be sorted later)?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Be Afraid
31-05-2007, 07:53
well, if you want a laugh, orcs and gobbo's will provide that, i used them in a turnament day-before-esterday, and won by massicre on all the games, butk more importantly had fun du to the random events that happen, eg, my big'uns failing anamosity, and my blak orc bigboss turning round and dispensing D6 hits, killing 6

fanatics are always funny

callum in hat
31-05-2007, 07:56
dark elves all the way, it looks like you wanna take some pretty cool stuff, which is what dark elves are all about^_^

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 08:39
Right, I've dropped High Elves from the list, and so I am beginning to make army lists so that people can give me a proper review on which army is better.

Points may be a little off, as these lists are cobbled together from numerous sources. For the same reasons, I apologise if there are any illegal item combinations.

Orcs & Goblins

Lords

Orc Warboss: Ulag's Akrit Axe, Collar of Zorga, Iron Gnashas, Shield, Heavy Armour. Mounted on Boar.
214

Heroes

Goblin Big Boss: Hand Weapon, Shield, Light Armour, Brimstone Bauble. Mounted on Wolf.
76

Night Goblin Shaman: Level 2, Staff of Sneaky Stealin'.
135

Orc Shaman: Level, Nibbla's 'Itty Ring.
120

Core

Orc Boyz: 24 Boyz w/ Choppas, Shields, Light Armour & Full Command.
172

Orc Boyz: 24 Boyz w/ Choppas, Shields, Light Armour & Full Command.
172

Orc Arrer Boyz: 10 Arrer Boyz.
60 *Orc Shaman's unit*

Night Goblins: 20 Night Goblins w/ Spears, Musician, Boss & 2 Fanatics.
142

Night Goblins: 20 Night Goblins w/ Spears, Musician, Boss & 2 Fanatics.
142

Night Goblins: 20 Night Goblins w/ Hand Weapons, Shields & Boss.
66 *Night Goblin Shaman's unit*

Goblin Wolf Riders: 17 Wolf Riders w/ Spears, Shields, Boss & Musician.
222 *goblin Big Boss' unit*

Special

Goblin Spear Chukkas: 2x spear Chukkas.
70

Goblin Spear Chukkas: 2x spear Chukkas.
70

Goblin Wolf Chariot: Hand Weapons, Short Bows, Spears, Extra Goblin, Extra Wolf, Scythed Wheels.
66

Goblin Wolf Chariot: Hand Weapons, Short Bows, Spears, Extra Goblin, Extra Wolf, Scythed Wheels.
66

Rare

Giant
205

1998 total.

Formation is a little hard to explain, but roughly it is the Giant in the centre, flanked by the Night Gobbos with Fanatics (to keep the enemy scared of approaching), in turn flanked by the Orc Boyz and Chariots. Arrer Boyz are purely for the Shaman to hide in. Spear Chukkas go 2x in each corner, firing diagonally across board. Wolf Riders + Big Boss charge down one flank.

So, what do you think of that then? Errors will be worked out if I do go for O&G (since I will buy the army book), so other than those, is it capable for tournament play (I realise it will be LOTS of fun, regardless)?

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 12:49
Again, Points may be a little off, as these lists are cobbled together from numerous sources. For the same reasons, I apologise if there are any illegal item combinations.

Beasts of Chaos

Lords

Beastlord: Great Weapon, Crown of Horns & Armour of Damnation.
161

Heroes

Bray Shaman: Bray Staff, Chaos Armour & Dispel Scroll.
116

Bray Shaman: Bray Staff, Chaos Armour & Dispel Scroll.
116

Core

Tuskgor Chariot
85

Tuskgor Chariot
85

Beast Herd: 10 Gors, 15 Ungors, Standard & Musician.
145 *Beastlord's unit*

Beast Herd: 10 Gors, 15 Ungors, Standard & Musician.
145 *Bray Shaman 1's unit*

Beast Herd: 10 Gors, 15 Ungors, Standard & Musician.
145 *Bray Shaman 2's unit*

Beast Herd: 5 Gors, 8 Ungors, Foe Render & Musician.
72 (Ambush)

Special

Minotaurs: 3 Minotaurs w/ Great Weapons & Mark of Chaos Undivided.
138

Centigors: 8 Centigors w/ Spears, Light Armor, Shields & Musician.
166

Rare

Shaggoth: Great Weapon & Light Armour.
306

Shaggoth: Great Weapon & Light Armour.
306

1986 total.

Extra points go into refinements if I decide to go with Beasts as my army.

2 Chariots go in the centre, flanked on each side by a Shaggoth. Behind the Chariots are the Minotaurs.
Character Units form a line to support this "monster-mash".
Centigors and Ambushers hunt enemy war machines, and flank-charge enemy units.

So, please tell me what you think of it, and how it compares to the O&G army in terms of competitiveness.

EndlessBug
31-05-2007, 14:03
Orc and Gobbo list, i'd drop the arrer boys and bump up the unit strengths of the night goblins, 20 is FAR too few for these guys, they're meant to be a horde! otherwise nice balanced list.

Beasts: I'd take 1 Shaggoth and a unit of dragon ogres for versatility.

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 14:08
With the Arrerz, they are just for the Orcy Shaman.

The Gobbos are likewise bodyguards. I don't care if they die (life is REALLY cheap), they are just to put out a few Fanatics to muck over the enemy's lines, and to babysit the Gobbo Shaman. If (and a really big if) they hurt anything, it's a bonus.

++EDIT+

Dark Elves

Lords

Highborn: Hand Weapon, Lance, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Black Amulet & Cold One.
236

Heroes

Beastmaster: Lance, Light Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak & Manticore.
242

Sorceress: Hand Weapon, Level 2, Dispel Scroll.
155

Core

Dark Elf Warriors: 16 Warriors w/ Spears, Shields, Light Armour & Full Command.
153

Dark Elf Warriors: 16 Warriors w/ Spears, Shields, Light Armour & Full Command.
153

Dark Elf Warriors: 10 Warriors w/ Hand Weapons, Repeater Crossbows & Light Armour.
110 *Sorceress' unit*

Special

Cold One Knights: 7 Knights w/ Hand Weapons, Lances, Shields, Heavy Armour, Full Command & Banner of Murder.
288 *Highborn's Unit*

Cold One Chariots: 2 Chariots w/ Repeater Crossbows.
214

Rare

War Hydra
220

War Hydra
220

1991

Excess points (may drop Beasties' Sea Dragon Cloak) go into more magic defence, I think.

2x Hydra in the middle
Flanked by Chariots
In turn, flanked by Spear elves
Knights + Highborn take a flank
Xbows are to move up behind my line to take potshots at large beasties and nasty units. Protect Sorceress too.

There we go, that's all 3 armies. Which do you think is the most competitive?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

EndlessBug
31-05-2007, 15:51
several comments on the DE list, you know you need ranks of 5 to get +1 from combat res? so 16 is a silly number, DE warriors I always field in units of 20, maximum effectiveness, and they're relatively cheap.

lvl 2 sorceress as your only xcaster in a 2k list is pointless, make her a lvl 1 and add another scroll.

Consider giving the beastmaster the armour or darkness or seal of Ghrond.

cold ones unit i'd make a unit of 6 max, the rank bonus works the same here, 8 is silly, too wide a frontage and you cant rank them up. Make it a unit of 5 with the highborn going in it. With the spare points get somedark riders.

p.s. you dont want the units of gobbos with the shamans in panicing and losing you not only your mage but your fanatics too. Personally I'd bung the orc shaman into the orc boyz squad anyway and still bump up your gobbos.

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 16:12
Comments taken about the DE list. Will probably use the spare points to bump up the Warriors, and do the Sorceress thing.

The Gobbo Shaman unit shouldn't panic too easily, being hidden from LOS behind a Giant. Will look into improving the numbers of the other units though. I fancied the Orc shaman at the back to try to use Foot of Gork from out of LOS. trouble is, if I put him in the Orcs, the unit becomes unbalanced, and encourages the enemy to charge one side, not make his decision highly difficult.

I could drop the Arrer Boyz and a few Wolf Riders to get enough points for a second Shaman?


Which list do you think has the most clout/power to it?

Zapherion
31-05-2007, 17:11
i think ur army is to monster heavy. i would drop at least one of the hydras and get a pair o bolth throwers instead. if u do stick wit them tho, id put them on the flanks wit ur infantry in the centre. any enemy will automatically move away from the hydras and this herds them onto ur infantry. once their engaged wit the warriors u cn hit units in the flanks wit the hydras and chariots.
Secondly definalty put the warrior units up to 20
Finally this is the first DE list ive ever seen that doesnt contain dark riders. i think two units o dark riders would do more damage than the beastmaster, but thats just my opinion

EndlessBug
31-05-2007, 17:25
well another thing, i's make the wolf riders 12, not 17, far too unwieldy now. I can see you're trying to give them 2 ranks but they'll become too big to move. Better in 1 block of 12 and one of 5 for a small fast cav harass unit. A giant can't hide the whole unit, it's not wide enough. You've only got a 1 in 3 chance to get foot of gork so dont hedge your bets on it. I still stand by the bunging him in a unit and bumping tyhe night gobbos up to at least 25 if not 30.

the dark Elf warrior units do NEED to be 20, the 9 points you have spare will not give them enough. Dropping the beastmaster and getting 2 units of Dark riders with musicians and then using the remainder to bump up the warriors might be a good idea, as Zapherion said.

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 17:42
Just want to check - I can only have 4 characters maximum at 2,000 points, can't I? If it is as I think, that rules out a second Orc shaman then.

Can I shove an Orc Shaman in a Night Gobbo unit (unsure - I've seen it done, but dunno if it's legal)?

I think I might get rid of the Dark Elves from the list, as the army seems really small. I know Elven armies are small anyways, but my love of Fantasy creatures has made the army even smaller still.

So, what do you reckon between Orcs and Beasts? (or is DE still a contender, despite the size?)

EndlessBug
31-05-2007, 18:04
i'd personally go Orcs and Goblins, they'll be much more fun to play and although I would change a few things in the list it seems ok. though no you cant have more than 4 heroes in a 2k game for O&G's.

The Dark Elves are fine though, you have got 3 big beasties to play with. Do whoever you like regardless of apparent strength or weakness.

Zapherion
31-05-2007, 18:56
odd question...what wud u use the warlord for? cos i see uve put him on a boar but havent included any boar boyz
Also, and this may be an orcy thing, but y havent u given the goblins full command. i dont hav the orc army book, nor hav i ever played against them so i dont know how it works, but just seems odd that ur not giving them a standard

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 19:07
I'll explain:

The Warboss is mounted for extra armour, and an improved movement rate. He sits behind my lines, ready to charge to wherever he is needed most at that current time. Also, be being central, he contributes leadership to the units around him, making them stick around for a bit longer.

I decided not to take Standards in the Gobbos for a simple reason: They flee. Lots (especially with 20, as I have). Since this means they run from combat more often than win it, I thought I wouldn't take the risk of handing extra points over to the opponent for capturing standards.

The Bosses are only in the units so that if there is an attached character (like the Night Gobbo Shaman) and the enemy challenge, I can accept it on the Unit Champion - and keep the Shaman safe for a little longer - another Orc unit might come to the rescue and keep the Shaman in the game.

Took Musicians so that if I do escape the enemy when I flee, I have an improved chance of rallying.

EndlessBug
31-05-2007, 20:58
all fine, although your warboss will be shot, if he's not in a unit then he is targetable in the new rules, and who wont pass up the change to reduce your leadership and get those nice VPs for killing the general?

you can, although I hate it when people do this, put the boar mounted character in a unit of infantry.

Treadhead_1st
31-05-2007, 21:25
Well, I've learned from 40K that you can only be shot if you can be seen. I don't see why a mounted unit is good in Infantry - they are usually mounted for speed, and the infantry just slows them down (ie, I dislike it too).

Methinks my Giant is going to be on heavy "block LOS" duty.


I think I am going to go for the Orcs and Gobbos. Maybe I can come back to one of the other armies when I am done...

Thanks for all the help guys.

Zapherion
01-06-2007, 12:48
random question as i dont hav the rule book handy....a mounted model cant be shot at if there is infantry in the way can it? the infantry still blocks line of sight yea? i cnt remember lol. if this is the case, u cn hide ur general behind a unit of orcs and unleash him when combat begins (tho the orcs will hav to hold long enough for him to manouver. Personally tho, id still put him on foot and stick him in a unit o orcs. that way hes not gunna get shot, and is in the thick o the fighting from the first moment...which is much more orky

Treadhead_1st
01-06-2007, 12:52
but he can charge further on the Boar, which helps him to "choose" combats more easily.

Foot is tempting, as it would make a Blorc really useful, but I am just unsure, as it would mean he is stuck to supporting a limited area of the battlefield.

I've been thinking about it on this thread, about developing my O&G army above: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86817

EndlessBug
01-06-2007, 14:26
yes he can hide behind a unit of infantry, only large targets can see over them/ or be seen over so as to be shot. Though if the enemy has a hill then he can draw LOS to him as the hill allows it to act as a Large target so to speak.

Putting him in the unit is a must in most cases these days.