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Da GoBBo
30-05-2007, 19:48
Last weekend I had game against empire. My oponent used outriders with repeater handguns, a move or shoot weapon. The fast cavalary rules says fast cavalry can always shoot whether the move or march. Does this overwrite the movement restriction on move or shoot weapons as well? And what if the outriders would have flying mounts? I seemed kinda silly to us for them not bein able to move and shoot.

Festus
30-05-2007, 19:52
Hi

Move or Shoot weapons are just that: You may either move or shoot with them, not both. So Outriders may not shoot after moving - even if they are fast cav (they are the only instance of this combination AFAIK).

Festus

Da GoBBo
30-05-2007, 20:00
A thx, we figured that because the fast cavalry section was after the weapons section, the weapon rule would be overwritten, but that is kind of a lame excuse. Didn't feel comfortable with it.

Griefbringer
30-05-2007, 20:03
A thx, we figured that because the fast cavalry section was after the weapons section, the weapon rule would be overwritten, but that is kind of a lame excuse.

They are both in the advanced rules section, and the order of the rules in that section does not give them any hierarchy.

neverwinter
30-05-2007, 20:07
no fast cav can move and shoot u always go by the rule book so if it say that fast cav can always shoot they always can shoot even if they move

Da GoBBo
30-05-2007, 20:15
They are both in the advanced rules section, and the order of the rules in that section does not give them any hierarchy.

hehe, come to think of it, it's sortta weird that basic rules will be overwritten whenever possible.

The Dark One
30-05-2007, 21:47
no fast cav can move and shoot u always go by the rule book so if it say that fast cav can always shoot they always can shoot even if they move

i disagree, regardless if you are fast cavery or not the gun sayz move or shoot. so if they move they can not shoot

Rabban
31-05-2007, 00:20
no fast cav can move and shoot u always go by the rule book so if it say that fast cav can always shoot they always can shoot even if they move

Yes, the rule book is correct, fast cavalry may shoot if they move/march, but not with move or shoot weapons. The ability to shoot means nothing if your weapon disallows it.

EvC
31-05-2007, 00:29
Can fast cavalry still shoot normal weapons if they reform?

mikec_81
31-05-2007, 00:32
fast cavalry reforms for free but it still counts have having moved.

Atrahasis
31-05-2007, 00:57
They also always count as having moved when they rally from a feigned flight, making outriders fairly useless in traditional fast cavalry roles.

They're better as a compact and flexible weapons platform in the main gunline than as a "fast cav" unit as such.

EvC
31-05-2007, 12:00
fast cavalry reforms for free but it still counts have having moved.

What if we were talking about Fast Cavalry with bows, for example? Edit: Ahh, theunwantedbeing answers this, thanks!

ZeroTwentythree
31-05-2007, 12:20
I don't have the rules in front of me, so I don't have the exact quote, but it doesn't say they "always shoot," it says they may shoot even if they march, but still suffer the -1 to hit penalty for moving.

If a weapon is "move or fire" there is nothing in the statement that negates this. The model has still moved.

theunwantedbeing
31-05-2007, 12:33
Yeah fast cavalry has no rule that states they may "always shoot".
"fast cavalry can shoot even when marching or reforming,but still suffer the -1 to hit for moving"

Move or fire weapons.
"A model that is armed with a move or fire weapon may not fire his weapon if he has moved at all during that turn"

So they cant move and shoot with more or fire weapons.

lparigi34
31-05-2007, 12:35
The units cant shoot if marched (unit rule)

Fast Cav can shoot even if it marched (unit rule)

Move-or-Fire weapons cannot shoot if the unit moves (weapon rule)

The fact that Fast Cav have different shoot-while-moving rules does not overrride the MoF rule of some weapons. If it would it should have been clearly stated, and it was not.

Masque
31-05-2007, 14:42
I can't see any way to interpret the rules so that Outriders can move and shoot...unless they march. ;)

Da GoBBo
02-06-2007, 10:26
hehe, I agree. It's just that it seems silly for FC unit which is supposed to shoot the crap out of most things not bein to move and shoot "I'v got all these special rules that allow me to move in all kinds of fashions and shoot in the meantime as well, I just don't have the weapon to abuse em". Atrahasis allready brought it up. What's the point of putting em on horseback?

Festus
02-06-2007, 10:42
What's the point of putting em on horseback?
Quick redeployment. A very viable tactical option: With their kind of firepower, having the unit redeploy in a turn by 16" can be enough of a deterrent against Skirmishers and Elite Infantry units. Not to mention other Fast Cavalry.

They can be very useful in the right army...

Festus

ZomboCom
02-06-2007, 13:16
Think of it this way..

You sit them back and shoot like normal hangunners, but when the enemy gets near to charging you you just skip away to a new position.

alextroy
02-06-2007, 15:55
And don't forget the 360 degree LOS for shooting that Fast Cavalry has. Mighty useful when you can fire the entire unit nearly sideways or even behind themselves.