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SisterMordagg
01-06-2007, 03:03
I have never seen anyone play it, let alone talk about it.

Kargush
01-06-2007, 13:46
I have never seen anyone play it, let alone talk about it.

Well, if you want to discuss Warmaster, I'm happy to oblige... I'm a little miffed myself over the lack of "action" here...

Anyways, I play Mortal Chaos, how about you? I've got a saround 1.5K pts painted, another 2-3K pts in blisters waiting for some love and attention. heavily Khornate themed btw...

Crube
01-06-2007, 14:03
WM was osmething I started back when it 1st came out, but a distinct lack of players, and a lack of support from GW (as far as I was concerned) put the kybosh on for me...

Still is a great game, though criminally undervalued in my opinion.

scarletsquig
01-06-2007, 15:27
I played a couple of times, rules system seemed a bit bizzare compared to other 10 mm systems I've tried.

Still wouldn't mind attempting to play games of "mini warhammer" using the models though, the dinky things look neat.

WarbossKurgan
01-06-2007, 15:42
As far as I was concerned Warmaster suffered from them same draw-back as Epic, Inquisitor and Aeronautica Imperialis: Scale.

I already have a large collection of 28mm scale terrain and models and in all these games a large proportion of the collection is useless. To play them I would basically be starting again from scratch - and since I only ever play with fully painted armies and on fully painted terrain (since that is a major part of my enjoyment of any game) that would mean a significant commitment of time and money before my first game!

That thought just put me off before I started! :(

scarletsquig
01-06-2007, 16:49
True.. I remember when inquisitor came out we all just played it using converted 40k models.

Hercco
02-06-2007, 08:09
I've got three buddies with Warmaster armies. Although we don't game as much as before (living in different cities, jobs, school, etc.) we get to do some battles now and then. I have well over 2000p. of High Elves painted.

When we started playing we barely built any terrain for it. We simply used our old WFB/40k trees, rocks formations, hills, etc. We don't consider them "off scale" but "magical" ;). Warmaster scale buildings are really quick and easy to do since you don't have to bother that much with detail.

In my opinion Warmaster is the best game GW has put out. I'm quite surprised how few people actually play it. And at first it wasn't really due to lack of support from GW; there was a decent amount of articles in WD when the game came out and during the Albion and Storm of Chaos campaigns. And what comes to armies, all WFB armies except for Wood Elves, Ogre Kingdoms (than gods :p) and Beastmen have minies and rules available. And come to think about it none of the missing armies really suit for WM anyway.

I guess what hurts WM and others specialist games most is that they're not available at hobby stores and they don't get two or three army books a year and 40 pages of advertising a month.

Angelwing
03-06-2007, 03:36
Sheer lack of interest from players in my local groups made it a no-no for me. Pity, as i really like the tk models.

Slartibartfast
03-06-2007, 05:06
I don't see it as dead, just limping along. Just like all Specialist games a dedicated core of players can revieve it. All these great games suffer from the same problem, lack of exposure. If you and a buddy started playing it on a small scale and did it consistantly it would grow into a following. I have seen it happen with Epic and BFG and sometime later this year I plan to do the same thing around here with WM.

Chaos and Evil
03-06-2007, 13:19
I single-handedly created the Epic scene in my area, with over 20 players now...

Be enthusiastic, get a few demo armies, and convert 'em!

liquiddream78
04-06-2007, 01:15
I have five people in my gaming group that all have warmaster armies. I acutally just got in to it about a month ago. We are starting a campaign in July and cannot wait for it to start.

Like Chaos said just get one other person into it start playing consitently and you will create a following. Like the old saying goes "If you play it they will come".

fracas
04-06-2007, 12:33
the problem also lies in the fact that GW stores consider specialist games a different company, making it even harder to play in GW stores.

Woudschim
04-06-2007, 13:49
Warmaster is the only GW game I play, it is the best game GW has ever produced, I have the luck to have my girlfriend as regular opponent, Warmaster suffers from non-promotion from GW, which saddens me, the game is elegant and simple in rules, though complex and diverse in tactics, the miniatures are brilliant, and the look of real army’s instead of the warhammer skirmishes between 200 men is awesome.

MordrekDaMean
05-06-2007, 16:40
WM is the buissness. One more month and our WM campaign will have been on for a whole year!!! We're playing it with the old Mighty Empires rules. My chaos armies are in heated contest with the high elves over the penninsula that lies between our two empires!!!
I have over 5000 pts of mortal chaos and over 6000 in tomb kings. With 2000 pts of empire and lizardmen to help convert any who show interest...
its too bad GW shunted it off to the corner. At least Warmaster Ancients keeps releasing new rules. I hope they do a seige suppliment soon, that the only area where WM lacks.

Angry Lawyer
05-06-2007, 20:06
The main killer for me was the difficulty to personalise it. It's really, really hard to convert anything at such a small scale, and converting is one of the big pullers for me with Fantasy.

-Angry Lawyer

Lord Lucifer
13-06-2007, 04:08
It'll only be dead if no-one talks about it.
At my club, no-one played it for years.
Then I raised the possibility of a Mighty Empires campaign for it. Now there's 8 players and I've just picked up enough Orcs to flesh out my force.

Rock on :)
Chez
-Lucifer

Woudschim
13-06-2007, 10:01
Indeed, everybody thinks no-one play's it, But I've got 4 regular players now, spread across the country :)

I opened up a Warmaster blog in the painting forums, just to show people, to make everyone familiar with it, to tell it is still existant :P

DarthIbis
14-06-2007, 04:00
This game has always intrigued me. I have a bunch of Elf blisters, probably enough for 1 or 2K worth of troops. I just haven't put anything together, not to mention nobody to play against here (that I know of.)

Lord Lucifer
14-06-2007, 04:23
Darth, find a friend and twist their arm into giving it a try. That's all you really need to get a game started.


Thing about WarMaster players is they're almost all 'closet' players, because they all believe no-one else plays it. I'm frankly shocked at the number of WarMaster-capable players I've got locally. I figured I'd have about 4 tops
Go figure

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2007, 05:04
The real trick is to pursuade one other person to play, and then play conspicuously infront of the other players. Fairly quickly the "hey, I must be missing out" feeling will start to spread...

Woudschim
14-06-2007, 12:13
Thing about WarMaster players is they're almost all 'closet' players, because they all believe no-one else plays it. I'm frankly shocked at the number of WarMaster-capable players I've got locally.
Go figure

I encountered the same thing, if GW would support the specialist-games more, there should be more playing of them. I'm sure most of the kids these days don't even know about them, the ones that do know think nobody is playing them.

Mister Hat
14-06-2007, 15:44
Anyways, I play Mortal Chaos, how about you? I've got a saround 1.5K pts painted, another 2-3K pts in blisters waiting for some love and attention. heavily Khornate themed btw...

I am in a very similar position here in the UK. I have around 3000pts of painted Khorne Mortals, 3000pts of unpainted empire and literally NO opponents. I am in a fairly busy club, but no-one seems in the least bit interested in starting.

This is a shame because WM is one of GWs best systems for tactical play. You really need to think and plan ahead.

I am going to keep banging on about it, though. Sooner or later someone will cave in, right?

Woudschim
14-06-2007, 21:44
I very much hope so, is there really no-one interested?

I like Warmaster indeed for the planning it requires, "shall I move brigade A twice for advantage X, but risking a failed command and not being able to move brigade B to protect A's flank, or must I move Brigade C first," lovely.

Have you tried bringing your armies, plonking them on the table and inviting others to learn and play?

Lord Lucifer
16-06-2007, 13:47
Two games of it played in my games room today. Conclusion? Elves must die :mad:

:p
I've got my work cut out for me with Orcs

Woudschim
16-06-2007, 19:52
Dark elves or High elves?

I never played with or against high elves, but I've lost only one battle using my dark elves (1000 points, due to a very bad dice roll)

I think my girlfriend really likes dark elves now... :angel:

Lord Lucifer
17-06-2007, 04:11
High Elves. Reaper Bolt Throwers hitting on 3+ are just nasty. Especially with two units sitting point-blank with a pair of High Mages casting Heaven's Fire so they get to shoot twice per magic phase.
My poor Giant never stood a chance :(

I'm starting to be bitter about Orc Generals. 95 points for Ld8, you can boost it up with a Crown of Command, but that's just for one test per round. They end being more expensive and less effective than elven generals.
Grrrr, bitter :p

Woudschim
17-06-2007, 14:30
Just remember that orcs have the very best leadership around, if you know how to use them.

If you play 2000 points, you can have 5 Ld 8 characters, and another 6 Ld 7 charachers, two of them being able to cast magic as well, and another 2 goblin shamans.

That means you can break up your army into small blocks, instead of moving brigades of four units around, try using two units together, if the command fails, you can have another go with another character and the other 2 units ;)

And their magic rocks, fielding 4 magic caster means you can always get some spells through, and you are able to threat the opponents army from more sides, I always use two or three shamans together, to be able to get the spells through. And just threatening your opponent with magic means you can dictate his movement, something that's very important of course! unfortunately orcs do not have much firepower to support the magic, I never take stone throwers, you can buy 2 orc units and a goblin unit instead of 4 throwers.

And use your goblins as screens, putting them forward so they will be regarded as the closest target, forcing your opponent to shoot them, hopefully he doesn't shoot the whole unit apart, then leave the goblins for what they are, and your opponent can only claim 15 measly victory points. :) Other nice things to do is luring frenzied troops away with wolfriders, but HE don't have frenzied troops..

And, if your opponent focusses his fire like he did, that means that there is a big weakness somewhere else, you've got the advantage of outnumbering, so you can use a part of your army to exploit that weakness, thereby using the giant as bait.

I hope this helps, I play Orcs and goblins as well, and they are a difficult army.

Oh, and another thing, don't ever put your trolls in a forest, but I guess you figured that out already :D

Greetings!

Lord Lucifer
17-06-2007, 14:57
Yeah yeah yeah, I've read the Orc tactica on the Specialist Games site too :p

Sorry, your advice was almost verbatim :)

The problem with this 'wealth of leadership' is it renders the rest of the army destitute when it comes to points. I can take the bucketload of Ld8 commanders, but filling out those character slots weighs in at 745 points.
And that's without picking up anything handy like the Sword of Might, Crown of Command, or a Wyvern or two.

Every point counts.

Woudschim
17-06-2007, 15:19
In 2000 points, I take two orc heroes, 3 goblin heroes, and three shamen. Which works fair enough. I lost only once :P

I make brigades of three or two units, always including a goblin unit. It is very easy to attack both the front and the flank of the enemy. my main tactic is forcing a break in the crucial parts of the enemy, and of course a good general will guard this part just as good, and that's where the threatening comes in, If I can't break his army there, He will pay for it dearly in another part of is army.

Lord Lucifer
18-06-2007, 04:22
My problem was running into a Elven gunline whilst half my combat capability faltered on the startingline, whilst the Giant was the only one that ended up advancing into range.

Then crucially, all command tests failed, leaving minimal sections of my army to attempt to win the game on initiative, only to run headlong into a dragon, and a heckuvalotta bad dice.

I'll get that elf yet, though. He'll get what's coming to him

Woudschim
18-06-2007, 17:49
Ah, bad dice rolls :(

I wish you good luck on your next elf-mashing-fest!

Lord Lucifer
19-06-2007, 02:40
Next elf-mashing will involve four Shamans and more units.
The longer it takes to hit Break Point the longer I have to turn those four attacks per stand into a bunch of dead elves.
I just need to ensure I can get enough troops into the thick of it as soon as I can.

Red Skullz
20-06-2007, 10:01
I haven`t played WM yet but I have been recruiting gamers for many years now with great success to WHFB, 40K, BB & Necro.

The trick is simple. You start off first, show off your minis, talk about the rules, setting, etc. When you get someone interested set it all in a narrative setting from the start. Arrange matches weekly or whatever fits best, get those who are interested in miniature wargaming over just to watch you play, lend out books and well eventually it will catch on :)

For example. I wanted to play 40K but everyone else in my group only wanted to play WHFB. I took a "risk" and aimed myself at a 400 pts ork (mini)horde, talked a lot about it, showed off my minis and those available and suddenly we where two players. I then set it all in a narrative setting with the classic good vs evil and we started pulling more players into it. I registered the results mailing it to everyone + some more people and now our main game in the group is 40K :cool:
I think the key elements where, start off small, narrative with a story people easily can relate to and force players to play scenarios that are related to the results/narrative.

Hope that helps, WM might be my way back into fantasy wargaming so I`ll be watching this forum a bit more closely :)

R

Woudschim
20-06-2007, 12:08
The problem is that I don't play warhammer, so I don't have a gaming group with a supply of would-be-warmaster players :p

Me and my girlfriend often play in independent gaming-stores though, and often we get some attention from the other gamers there.

I will be expanding my dark elf army soon by the way, from 1300 to 2000 points, and my girlfriend will also expand from 1600 dwarfs to 2000, we will then have better advertising material :D

Until now, we played 1500 points, or 2000 orcs vs 1500 dwarves + 500 empire

wreiro
05-07-2007, 13:53
Ah, bad dice rolls :(

I wish you good luck on your next elf-mashing-fest!

I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not allowed to use my HE in my gaming group :( after I halved a 2000pt empire army and only gave away half an eagles unit worth of victory points. I just had to start using my other armies instead!

WM is a great game, it is far and away the best game GW have produced.

Just one more point I think Beastmen would make a great horde army for WM. On the table top an army would look great painted as a single warband or as a few warbands brought together under one very powerful warlord.

DarthIbis
05-07-2007, 15:32
I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not allowed to use my HE in my gaming group :(
Why?
Not being a stats junkie, I couldn't say for sure that they are "overpowered" but if that's not the case, it sounds like your associates are just whiners if they won't let you field a legit army that doesn't break any standard rules.

Woudschim
05-07-2007, 17:10
I once won a battle losing only two stands (from two different units!)

No army is overpowered though.

Warmaster is indeed the best game GW ever made.

I got my mail order in today, my dark elf army is upgraded to 2000 points!

the army list:

general - sceptre of sovereignty
2 heroes
sorceress on manticore with sword of might, she will be a mobile, spellcasting, terrorcausing combat monster

6 warriors,
4 crossbowmen
4 dark riders
2 cold ones
2 bolt throwers

and one odd unit of witch elves with a sword of fate, I am pondering about them,.. I plan to use my army in the following blocks:

2x two regiments of warriors + crossbowmen
2x warriors, bolt thrower and crossbowmen
2x two units dark riders
1x cold ones

The witch elves don't fit with anything, maybe one of the warrior/crossbow regiments, but it ruins the symmetry in the army, something that I have used with great effect. A unit of harpies is not an option, since I want a tight command, a unit of harpies is just another unit to command, and possibly fail to command, something I do not want to happen. I am thinking of removing them altogether, and just play with 1925 points, maybe with some extra magic item. I feel they are just going to be an obstacle.

wreiro
06-07-2007, 14:31
Why?
Not being a stats junkie, I couldn't say for sure that they are "overpowered" but if that's not the case, it sounds like your associates are just whiners if they won't let you field a legit army that doesn't break any standard rules.

I was playing when the rules came out so their magic was brilliant, their shooting is great, their ld is high and they came get loads of silverhelm and chariots. No other army has the large choice of troops, which aren't that expensive in points.

My battle line of troops would regularly move from the deployment zone to the mid line of the field and wait for the cavalry to romp down a flank with a mage in tow to offer some magical offence as well.

Also they are a bunch of whinners!!! :D

Lord Lucifer
06-07-2007, 14:52
Yeah, Elves can be nasty.
Their archers are accurate as hell, and fight every inch as well as Imperial Halberdiers.
Their basic line infantry, Spearmen, have decent saves for a decent cost.
The abundance of Silver Helms and Reaver Cavalry make them fast, and those Silver Helms are durable to a frustrating degree.
Then you chuck a dragon into the unit to make it steamroll anything with a pulse

And those bolt throwers are just nasty. Get the damn point-eared Mage to cast the spell that allows them to shoot again, and your second mage next to your second Bolt Thrower unit...

Advancing on an Elf army hurts like hell.

Woudschim
06-07-2007, 17:29
A nice dark rider attack and a cold one charge will teach them.

bastards!

Today I bought a ..silly amount of warmaster, for an even sillyer amount of money, all new, in blisters, about 50 units, for a about 70 euro's, absurd really, a lot of orcs, chaos, empire, kislev, lizardmen, dwarves. Great deal! :D

DarthIbis
06-07-2007, 19:21
Today I bought a ..silly amount of warmaster, for an even sillyer amount of money
It'll be nice if it can manage to make a nice comeback... then those of us who stocked up while the prices are down will be in great shape.

I've got the better part of two whole armies over the last six months.
(Now I just have to get them assembled and painted.)

wreiro
07-07-2007, 00:38
Yeah the buying of WM figures is the easy part! I think I have in the region of 15, 000 points of various armies I would really like to paint.

Lord Lucifer
07-07-2007, 07:02
Dark Riders to whip around the flank and drive archer units into each other should work brilliantly.
Anything with a save is useful against Elves. having a plethora of hits to absorb shooting damage isn't the greatest defence when each wound causes drive-back :(


So I'm facing off against 1,250points of Elves and 1,250points of Dogs of War with my 2,000points of Orcs and Gobbos, and I only have four Orc units, my BoarBoyz are almost double the cost of those fantastic RnF Orcs, and my gobbos may be more liability than blessing.

Concentrate on the Humans to reach Break Point I think, if I break one of the two armies the game is counted as a draw :D

Woudschim
07-07-2007, 08:46
dogs of war, a very nice army to play with, just mind those pikes, they are horrible. *evil grin*

Lord Lucifer
07-07-2007, 10:27
Really? The close-formation Pikemen are really that bad?

Woudschim
09-07-2007, 13:18
Horrible for the opponent, that is. Even when charged you can cram 18 attacks in a 6cm wide frontage, which is ridiculously powerfull. just make sure to protect the flank with a unit handgunners or swordsmen.

but I once kicked the asses of two units slayers when they charged frontally in two units of pikes. They are one of the best infantry shock troops around.

azraelezekiel
10-07-2007, 22:41
High Elves. Reaper Bolt Throwers hitting on 3+ are just nasty. Especially with two units sitting point-blank with a pair of High Mages casting Heaven's Fire so they get to shoot twice per magic phase.
My poor Giant never stood a chance :(

I'm starting to be bitter about Orc Generals. 95 points for Ld8, you can boost it up with a Crown of Command, but that's just for one test per round. They end being more expensive and less effective than elven generals.
Grrrr, bitter :p

Just anote here, you were skanked with the spell use.
The spell does not affect artillery ;)
But a way around it if you are High Elves is to add reavers to your bolt thrower brigade.
I laugh as my opponents mortal chaos knights wither in the arrow storm:D

azraelezekiel
10-07-2007, 22:43
Just one more point I think Beastmen would make a great horde army for WM. On the table top an army would look great painted as a single warband or as a few warbands brought together under one very powerful warlord.

This is currently under review in playtesting

azraelezekiel
10-07-2007, 22:45
And those bolt throwers are just nasty. Get the damn point-eared Mage to cast the spell that allows them to shoot again, and your second mage next to your second Bolt Thrower unit...

Advancing on an Elf army hurts like hell.
Heaven's fire doesn't work on artillery!

azraelezekiel
10-07-2007, 22:50
I got back into gaming a year ago via WM.
Took me ages to find an opponent in a very large metropolitan area.
I play against one guy regularly and another one not so.
But in this year I have managed to collect & paint/model 9 official armies and 3 unofficial aremies all to a minimum of 2000 points.

Everytime we play , do people say 'oh I have a WM army I might bring it for a game next time.'
It never happens but I agree with the comments regarding better promotion by GW/SG.

Playtesting is currently going on to ratify issues with a few of the official forces.
There is also rumours of a new style of army that would allow a few more forces to be released.

The big question is though, will the models ever be made to support the new armie's rules?

nick
11-07-2007, 02:04
I've been meaning to get myself a WM army for years and actually almost got one when I was getting WarSeer going. I've always like the concept and the fact that you have a massive army of little minis makes transporting multiple forces really simple.

Actually an interesting story for my portent days, GW sent us a preview copy of Warmaster but no minis what so ever. As a result we played through a couple of games using little pieces of paper to represent each unit. It looked like those battle maps you see in history books :) To this date I don't believe I've ever played a game using minis other than a GW store.

Anyway that's my late night rambling done.

Nick

DarthIbis
11-07-2007, 03:26
That's right, Nick. Now-a-days you can just about put together a good-size Warmaster force for under a hundred bucks. (Some races are easier to come by than others.)

I think Warmaster, Epic and Gothic are great and my interest in them actually got me to learn more about 40k and WFB.

Lord Lucifer
11-07-2007, 13:19
Back when it was released, a mate and I both picked up a rulebook each, which seemed novel at the time (buying just a rulebook with no miniatures, that's wierd!) and played game after game after game with 20mm by 40mm rectangles cut out of cardboard harvested from my family's love of breakfast cereal.
Each unit was noted in poor handwriting
You'd be hard-pressed to find an easier army to transport than a full 2,000point force of Cardboard Rectangle Soldiers

Seemed to be the most common result of our games was a mutual draw when both commanders got killed in the same fight :D

Woudschim
11-07-2007, 14:50
haha! odd situation!

I only once killed a general, my girlfriends general was forced to move into a unit slayers when I moved over it, and it got caught in a combat in turn 3, the slayers where wiped out, together with her general. One of the most boring games though, winning in turn three after half an hour :P.

I do also recall a game in which I put an Empire wizard in front of the enemy, further than 30cm away from my own units, I still do not know what got into me, I just forgot the rule. Needless to say, the wizard was killed, and I also lost the battle :P

Lord Lucifer
14-07-2007, 08:28
WARMASTER LIVES!

Today at my games club, three games of it were played.

The Skaven narrowly defeated the steadfast Dwarfs.

In the case of the Empire and Elves (2,500points between them) vs. the hordes of Chaos (2,000points), the Elves were driven off in disgrace whilst the Empire and Chaos forces ended up in a stalemate.


My game was supposed to be another two-on-one where the High Elves and Dogs of War had the advantage over me, but I ended up facing only the Dogs of War as the Elf player came down with the flu.
The bloodiest 2000pts vs. 2000pts game I've ever played, quickly ensued.

And by quickly, I mean slowly. This was brutal and grinding.

My force list was:
4xOrcs
7xGoblins
2xWolf Riders
2xBoar Riders
1xChariots
1xGiant
1xTrolls
1xOgres
General with Magical Doohickey
2xOrc Heroes
2xOrc Heroes on Wyverns
2xOrc Shamans
2xGoblin Shamans

Each flank was anchored by two ineffectual units of Goblins, with the remaininf three taking up the right-side of my centre, marching boldly towards some ruins and achieving very little
To the right of them, one unit each of Boars and Wolfies advanced.
To the left of my middle ground, the Giant and my combat infantry made a steady advance, with cavalry and chariotry sitting sadly neglected after a failed Command roll.

4 Shamans got to work with the GERROFF! spells, knocking a Dogs of War Tuska off the table, and forcing back the Dwarfs facing my right flank

The opponent failed all command rolls in the first turn.
Next turn, the advance continued for the infantry, whilst the left-wing cavalry got to moving. Success!
The goblins continued to not matter to anyone, and the right-wing cavalry sat pretty for a turn.

Magic again saw disruption of enemy lines.

The Dogs of War succeeded in commanding with two of their four characters, and got their centre line of Infantry to move forward cautiously, the Crossbowmen regiments fanned out to take firing positions on a hill, and some Dwarfs and Swordsmen advanced to the cover of some woods.


Crunch time.
The left-wing cavalry advanced ready to charge... then blundered!
The My first infantry block failed to move, so I decided to hold pretty with my battle line.
I redeployed my right-wing Cavalry, sent them straight to the front lines to sit next to the infantry.

This time around, all my magic failed. All of it, on 5+ to cast.


The enemy advance similarly faltered with the Tuska elephant advancing for a charge, then failing the requisite command roll. Terrific.
With that, the pike line held firm, whilst the crossbowmen opened up on the solid wall of Orcs, Trolls, Ogres, Boarboyz, and all manner of nastiness.
They succeeded in driving the Orcs and Ogres back, but no Confusion resulted.

Acting largely on initiative, the Giant charged some Crossbowmen, the Boarboyz did likewise, the left-wing Boardboyz hit the Tuska, and the Chariots slammed into the enemy Ogres

The Boarboyz were boosted with the WAAAGH!, allowing them to decimate the Tuska in a single round of combat.
The Chariots likewise annihilated the Ogres, although it took them two rounds to finish them off.
The Giant smashed the entire regiment of Crossbowmen, but suffering two hits in the attack, decided to withdraw rather than Advance into the Pikemen.
Unfortunately, the Giant only withdrew a pathetic 6cm, leaving it painfully exposed for an Initiative Charge from the Pikemen.
The right-wing Boarboyz were the stars, however, obliterating their Crossbowmen opposition, Advancing into the flank of the Pikemen on the hill, driving them back so that they contacted some more Crossbowmen in the flank, and crushed the lot of them, before withdrawing away as quickly as possible... which happened to be 5cm :(


Now, the Dogs of War launched their counter-offensive, slamming their Pike Blocks into my Orcs, Orcs, and Trolls.
Luckily I was well supported by way of supporting stands, and roundly beat the enemy, but decided to hold my ground for fear of losing units that were quite capable of charging next turn.
More pikers aimed for the Giant, and cut it down in two rounds of combat. Eeek!

Unfortunately for the end game, my advance drew me out of formation, and, surrounded by the enemy I could not afford to lose many combats as they would expose the rear of my formation.


The closing turns are a blur, but my right-most boarboyz bought the farm when the Birdmen of Catraza got to grips with them, with Spearman support.

Ultimately I lost two units of Orcs, two units of Goblins, a unit of Boarboyz, a Giant, my Ogres, and a Hero or two
However, I forced the enemy to break, taking out more than 12 of his units, and pulling off the bloodiest win I've managed lately.


Marathon effort, feels so good to be finished :D

Cpt. Drill
15-07-2007, 01:31
"GORDON... I MEAN WARMASTER IS ALIVE!?"

Wow man nice to hear about you game! its good warmaster has taken off for you... would like to read morwe also see some pics of armies!

Brandir
15-07-2007, 09:32
Warmaster is a superb game, as are the other games using the Warmaster rules engine: Blitzkreig Commander, Cold War Commander, Warmaster Ancients and Battle of the Five Armies.

In fact, reading this thread has just inspired me to dig out my Warmaster stuff and try and interest fellow club members next week.

Woudschim
15-07-2007, 10:20
Great to see a comeback from Warmaster!

@ lord lucifer:

Sounds like a very interesting game!

This last friday I played an introduction battle in the local games store, with a new recruit. Too bad I forgot his army, we planned to play a 1500 points battle empire/orcs.

I was forced to split my orc army, and just show him the basics of moving/shooting and combat. It did not mind really, the store closed early, so we wouldn't have the time to play a 1500 points battle anyway. He liked it very much though, and will start collecting chaos!

Lord Lucifer
15-07-2007, 14:12
I trust the Orcs won? :p

We've got a wildcard Lizardmen player hitting from the south of the campaign map. He's starting WarMaster because of the campaign, never played before in his life.
Keen to see how he gets on :D

My opponent has played a few games of Battle of Five Armies, but never full WarMaster
One player has played a total of three or four games, using Lizardmen... he's the dodgy Elf, he wasn't cheating with his High Elves, they were honest mistakes


I really like my newly configured army. Dropping the Crown of Command was the best thing I could've done.

azraelezekiel
15-07-2007, 15:42
he's the dodgy Elf, he wasn't cheating with his High Elves, they were honest mistakes

:) This happened to me the other day.
It was only in the final round did we realise it didn't affect the bolt thrower.
Made no difference really though. As I used the reaver/bolt thrower combo and slaughter any of those chaos scum who came in range :evilgrin:
There is a rumour that the bolt throwers are also going to lose their +1 shooting bonus:cries:

Woudschim
19-07-2007, 17:46
I did another introduction battle today, with a guy who has played a lot of wargames in his life :P

1500 points Empire / Orcs.

Note to myself: Flaggelants in the flanks of boar riders are nasty.
another note to myself: always deploy goblins at the egde of a wood when threatened by cavalry. My unit was charged by Imperial knights, managed to inflict three! stand and shoot hits, took two hits, and retreated into the woods :P'

A great game, and next time we will play 2000 points dark elves/orcs.

azraelezekiel
19-07-2007, 18:14
Importantly, did you get him hooked?

Woudschim
19-07-2007, 18:32
I did! :)

At least he wants to play enough battles to understand the rules fully, to see what kind of game it really is. So that is great already.

Lord Lucifer
09-09-2007, 01:50
So I've got my brand spankin' new Black Orcs, two units of Savage Orc Boarboyz, a Character Pack, and the Battle of Five Armies Storm Giant.
My Orc army is growing, all is right with the world.

Unfortunately my chariots haven't arrived yet, but they should be getting here soon.


My club campaign is going great.
9 players: Two High Elves, one Chaos Mortals, one Dwarf, one Skaven, one Empire, one Lizardmen, one Dogs of War, and my Orcs.

Third round has been played, I finally got beaten by Dwarfs, because my ally brought along only one Commander and therefore couldn't move his damn army!
1,250 points of Orcs against 2,000points of Dwarfs, not a pretty sight.

At least I wasn't broken, though.
Got a few nitpicky rules arguments which kinda spoiled the fun. I need to print out and bring along the errata to smooth things over in the future

azraelezekiel
10-09-2007, 18:30
You are very lucky to have so many local players.
Around here there is one other chap who plays sporadically and then I pressgang my nephew to play.

Gabacho Mk.II
10-09-2007, 23:22
Well, let me see if my added inspiration helps... ;)



I have decided to run my third WarMaster campaign, starting this November 3rd.


So far, my old buddies who gamed WarMaster have expressed a slight eagerness. Am trying to get all 7 back into the game again (last time we have a total of 14 players on the roster, but only 8 managed to show up regularly), but I don't know yet.

Any advice?

Gabacho Mk.II
10-09-2007, 23:24
Oh, concerning armies:

> I ran Empire last time, and Lizardmen the first campaign
> The following races are represented - Chaos, Bretonnians, 2 Khemri, 2 Orcs, 1 High Elves, 1 Empire and 1 Lizardmen (both being my forces)


> Am planning on a map campaign using the Mighty Empires release, but I haven't sat down to design the rules that will incorporate that... Might use a generic map like before.

Lord Lucifer
11-09-2007, 01:23
I'm running it under the Warmaster Mighty Empires campaign rules
Very easy, very effective

Gabacho Mk.II
11-09-2007, 06:33
I dont know, Mighty Empires rules-set is somewhat blah... My hope is that in the near future, GW will release additional support for WarMaster through the Mighty Empires system. There must surely be a single wise person in all of GW, no? ;)


I will keep everyone updated as to the WarMaster campaign through this thread. Wish us luck.:chrome:

Lord Lucifer
11-09-2007, 13:22
Is that the new Mighty Empires campaign set, or the rule set that appeared in WarMag, that you're referring to as blah?

Haven't even looked at the new rules, I like the WarMag 'Mighty Empires' rule set because it's simple, and easy, and guarantees everyone plays each game turn.
I've found simplicity to be very important in carrying out campaigns. Non-restrictive and easy to use.

Minibull
11-09-2007, 13:39
FYI (and I apologize if it has been posted before), GW has put the old Warmaster Mighty Empire rules on their web site as a free download:

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/mightyempires/gaming/orig_rules/default.htm

yarrek
13-09-2007, 23:42
WHY IS SPACE HULK DEAD?!!
Warmaster was the best strategy game. Space Hulk was the best board game.
WHY ARE THEY DEAD?!!
GW management is just plane stupid. We want to spend money on those games, but it looks like GW doesn't want our money, grrrrr...
Warmaster might be still available on mail order, but try to order something from here (I mean Australia). The cost, the loooooooong wait, why would I bother? On top of that, no one around is playing it. I hope my WM army will have a better chance, maybe in another world.
Recently I found the Hordes of the Things. Very easy to play and requires similar level of strategy thinking as Warmaster. You can use any figures. It's great for modeling and I've seen some great conversions around (I play high elves, I need beasts. What can I convert to high elf beasts?). The best of all, there are lots of HOTT players here, mostly playing 28mm scale.
I am still trying to get space hulk from e-bay, but all that's available are some heavily used second hand sets with missing parts, ugh..
GW just doesn't want my money...

SON OF LION
14-09-2007, 09:06
If you get people fired up about playing it then GW UK mail order isn't out of the question.

I"m in LL's campaign and five people have either bought a new warmaster army or added stuff to what they already have. There was another person who was keen as well but he couldn't get ready in time.

I actually think that the support for the specialist games to be pretty good. Yeah, there isn't much new releases and yeah, they really should do a mass shipment to GW Oz once a year to save on shipment costs if you want to buy a couple of things, but they have done really well with the living rulebooks (free!) and supporting fan sites of these games. GW doesn't want your money but they sure want you to keep playing.

Lord Lucifer
16-09-2007, 10:24
Lion, there's been HEAPS of new releases over the years.
They've added a host of new armies, so it's not a lack of progress.
There's new rules and new products being made fairly regularly for all Specialist Games.
It's just a pain to procure, and not widely advertised

yarrek
16-09-2007, 23:43
There is no support for specialist games in Oz.
Online store has only WH, 40k & Lotr, for everything else it will redirect you to UK or US online store, that's why the wait is sooo long.
I have to move back to Europe..

azraelezekiel
01-10-2007, 20:57
Wouldn't bother mate.
Looks like we are all going to be unsupported soon.
See SG forums.

especially with comments like this
'In order for SG to work they needed their own casting machine (which originally WAS the plan when SG was first formed). This would have allowed them to do their own lower production runs (much like a Crocodile Game, Heresy or Impact! does) with much less cost involved.

They nixed the seperate casting machine and honestly ... SG was pretty much doomed from the moment that happened (ie from the start). It just took several years for it be apparant the effect of being required to use Citadel for the miniatures run would have on SG's ability to operate.'

Brandir
01-10-2007, 22:11
I suspect that Specialist Games makes more money than many miniatures manufacturers in the UK.

Wouldn't it be a good idea if GW licenced out some SG IP so the games could continue to be developed and supported?

scarletsquig
02-10-2007, 17:19
I suspect that Specialist Games makes more money than many miniatures manufacturers in the UK.

Wouldn't it be a good idea if GW licenced out some SG IP so the games could continue to be developed and supported?

It'd be a fantastic idea, but I suspect that their iron grip on their IP means that they would rather see their games die rather than having another company do a much better job of it, despite the fact that they could make a lot of profit out of such a deal, by making the third party do all the work and simply coming along to claim the royalties from time to time.

GW knows that it's specialist games would be major competition to it's main line if another company ever got their hands on them.

Mr Zephy
02-10-2007, 18:24
Lion, there's been HEAPS of new releases over the years.
They've added a host of new armies, so it's not a lack of progress.
There's new rules and new products being made fairly regularly for all Specialist Games.
It's just a pain to procure, and not widely advertised

Really? what was the last thing made for Necromunda?

(because if there's been anything i've missed, i might like to buy it :D)

memitchell747
05-10-2007, 07:44
Really? what was the last thing made for Necromunda?

(because if there's been anything i've missed, i might like to buy it :D)

Probably the Goliath Bounty Hunter. The other BH's, including the Female one before that. Before that, updated Goliaths, Scavvies, Enforcers, and Ratskins and Enforcers. The Necro range is up to date and probably needed the least attention.

Mordheim is fully functional. Lot's of WFB crossover minis.

Blood Bowl is fine.

I don't know about Inquisitor, though I suspect many folks use 40K scale minis.

BFG probably does not have every race represented, only 10. Not a problem playing campaigns.

Epic is the problem child. They tried to redo everything, and they simply did not get it all done. I think they dropped the ball here. This should have been their top priority, and I think would have been the most lucrative SG. And, no, I don't play the game.

Warmaster is fully functional, though it does not have the 16 WFB armies. It is missing Wood Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, and Ogre Kingdoms. But, it got Araby, a whole new army.

The big, unconfirmed rumor is that there wont be any more releases for SGs. Who knows, that sounds unlikely. It is more likely there wont be a schedule of releases, just haphazard stuff. The miniatures needed to play all the games are still available, via mail order. WM is hardly affected if the rumor is true, unless you just have to have a Wood Elf or Chaos Dwarf army.

Oz is a perennial problem. The Ozzies perennial complain, and the impression is that SG is dead, and has been dead for years. Not true, and I sympathize with them.

It is true GW hardly promotes SGs, and that has been the case for years. I dont think that will change in our lifetimes.

I am just in the last two weeks trying to start WM for the first time. Finding willing opponents is not easy. It actually seems to work against me that their is a local WMA following, they are snobby about fantasy WM.

memitchell747
05-10-2007, 16:20
Spoke too soon. One day later, in Fantic 94, it is said that the SG bi-annual releases are done, with nothing specifically planned for now.

http://www.specialist-games.com/Default.asp

Anvilbrow
19-10-2007, 06:01
I have managed to rope a few people into playing Warmaster by providing everything. I have collected every army released except for Araby to a point minimum of 2k. Surprising how many people are willing to play if they have to make no investment.

memitchell747
21-10-2007, 07:31
My problem is I have only played a couple of learning games. I think I could find more opponents if I had tow armies, instead of one, but I dont want to invest more in a game I'm not even sure I like.

azraelezekiel
21-10-2007, 09:16
Have you tried using cardboard proxies?
That way you can decide what forces you like, other than that try picking up a cheap second army off of eBay or bartertown.

But the main reason WM is dying is lack of opponents :(

Khorghan
28-10-2007, 18:01
the miniature scale is too small to make good minis IMO i dont even know how the game works but minis are the first thing you see and it didnt catch on with me

wreiro
29-10-2007, 12:18
Really! I think we will have to agree to disagree Khorghan! I think that the warmaster range has some of the best models GW have done! But that is my opinion.

fracas
29-10-2007, 12:26
the minnies can seem daunting but once you get going they are fairly easy to paint and look great on the table top

Khorghan
30-10-2007, 04:14
its not that id have troubling painting them its just i think the sculpting looks crap.

do you actually think these are GWs greatest models, theres nothing to them-just the basic out line of the troop based on the 28mm version.

Mr Zephy
30-10-2007, 18:23
Well, they're 6mm figures, and they compare favourably to some others in the same scale from other manufacturers.

wreiro
01-11-2007, 14:24
Yeah totally Khorghan. The Bretonnian range is fantastic for a start (ok maybe not the men at arms but the rest of the ramge), the Araby stuff looks great and the empire general that is sitting at a table its just quality! Yeah they are only 10mm but I think they are brilliant! I might be slightly biased because I was waiting for "epic" warhammer for about 10 years. I just love all things WM!

I think I have just talked myself into painting some more units! Damn!

Stella Cadente
01-11-2007, 14:57
I remember playing this game when it first came out, I thought it was very good, very nice rules system, but I wasn't able to start at the time due to having no money, but great game

but it is hard to play summit GW doesn't support....probably cus theres no space marines in it

Khorghan
01-11-2007, 18:13
the models are probably top quality for the scale-i just think the scale is too small although i imagine it looks really cool to play a massive game with them.

wreiro
02-11-2007, 10:21
It is brilliant to see a fully painted army on the battle field but it is especially good for WM since the scale is so small the colours really bring the figures to life. Biggest battle I have fought was a 3000pt where I supplied all the figures. Could go bigger but the alliances could be a bit bizarre, High Elves and Bretonians allied to Skaven against an Orc, Chaos or combination of both army at about 5000pt.

noneshallpass!
20-01-2008, 22:50
I never payed much thought to this game when it was released, but now(like I also has started to do with Epic) I find it more intresting.

Is one rank/strip(or is it called stand) of soliders considered to be a unit (30p for skeletons, 60 for HE etc)?

What is normal points to play with? 2000p like Warhammer?

fracas
21-01-2008, 00:01
most units are three stands per unit

memitchell747
21-01-2008, 03:07
I never payed much thought to this game when it was released, but now(like I also has started to do with Epic) I find it more intresting.

Is one rank/strip(or is it called stand) of soliders considered to be a unit (30p for skeletons, 60 for HE etc)?

What is normal points to play with? 2000p like Warhammer?

A strip usually has five infatry, or two cavalry. Two strips glued to a 40mmX20mm plastic base is a stand. Three stands is a unit. Some units, like artillery have less stands. 2000pt.s is about right for a game.

Rufus_Shinra
11-11-2008, 20:56
I'm new to Warmaster. It is not dead.
But here...in Moscow....well....I think there are 2 players in all..)
Now I stop whining and say this is the most Fascinating miniature game. I think I'll start a blog here.

horizon
12-11-2008, 19:29
Funny enough the Warmaster game engine is quite praised and used in many other games (historicals etc).

Ronin_eX
22-01-2009, 07:50
I've been looking at Warmaster for a while. I started WFB a little while ago and while it fits the scale of the background better than 40k in most cases that feeling of massive armies clashing over miles of ground simply isn't there.

I love Epic and it is currently my large scale 40k game of choice (with 2nd for skirmish games) and I'd love to pick up some Warmaster stuff to demo.

What is a good demo point level to play at. I was thinking Dwarfs (my WFB army) and Chaos would be a fun match up but I need to know how large to go with them as if I only get a single army it will take some doing to get other players in on it (I've already demo'd the hell out of Infinity but between WFB and 40k most players don't have the money for more).

As for the minis I personally prefer 6mm-15mm when it comes to wargaming large level stuff personally. Painted up it looks amazing (especially legions of 6mm-10mm stuff) and it gives this great sense of scale of the battle.

28mm is great for seeing the individual troops but when I want thousands of troops standing off against each other then nothing beat small scale stuff. I love the feeling of seeing a 6mm Epic army lined up on the field and every time I look at pictures of Warmaster games I love the masses of ranked up troops marching toward each other.

So between the ease of painting and the way the finished product look small scales are a winner for me. The only place I like 25mm-32mm is in squad level skirmish (platoon at most). Up at the scale of WFB/40k it simply makes things feel cramped and close without enough room to truly manoeuvre (and the weapon ranges tend to be odd as well to facilitate the cramped conditions).

fracas
22-01-2009, 17:35
i would say easiest demo points would be 1k
allowing you a little bit of everything


and i agree that warmaster armies do look great painted on the table top

Cpt. Drill
22-01-2009, 18:06
If 6-15mm is your preferred scale, you should definatly play warmaster! The armys look great and it is the best playing GW game.

For a demo game it could be worth getting the 'Battle of Five Armies' box as it comes with about 1000pts of good and evil for no to much money and it has the same rules system as warmaster (one or two very minor differences) you could then go onto using the models in a many other warmaster armies (It has alot of stuff for Orcs and a few units of elves, dwarves and men) If you really enjoy painting one of them then you could easily bolster the army from there!

I wouldnt really recommend Dwarves and Chaos (other than the fact that they are the two most elite armies so require buying the leaste amount of stuff!) Because they are two of the heavier armies and combats can be a bit of a grind! Empire and chaos are two really nice armies to match up... Empire with a good amount of shooting and lots of cheap infantry vs Chaos with their lack of shooting but the most hard core units in the game!

I would pick an army a bit different to chaos if your set on dwarves (as they are your WHFB army) possibly elves, Undead (or VC), Araby or brets. to be honest anyone apart from chaos.

It could be worth trying to get an army that could be used for anceints aswell. Araby, Empire and Brets can all be used easily for WMA. The system si great a little more in depth than WM and if you can get a game and enjoy the era then you will really be happy that you chose such an army!

fracas
22-01-2009, 19:18
dwarves vs orcs&globins or vs skaven would be classic
but since skaven is all infantry O&G with wolves, boars, chariots, and a wyvern would be very characterful

Ronin_eX
22-01-2009, 21:37
Hmm, in that case Orcs & Goblins seem the best fit then (interesting that Chaos are quite similar to Dwarfs in that respect) as they make for the classic grudge match list and it would be an interesting experience as I tend to play small, elite armies in most games. But Dwarfs will certainly be my primary, I love the stunties too much. :D

Cpt. Drill
22-01-2009, 23:34
Dont gbet me wrong, Dwarves and chaos still have massive differences... one has some powerful artillary and the other has some brutal shock units! Just for the most of it heavy units will be fighting heavy units which misses some of the fun and tactics of the game.

If you are going to do Dwarves and O&G then I would definatly suggest battle of five armies. It has two units of dwarf warriors which you can use directly and it has eight units of orcs plus four units of wolf riders... If you bought the metal counterparts that would be 109 instead of the 50 for the game which you get a whole load of other junk in!

Ronin_eX
23-01-2009, 08:12
Sounds great for a starter though I've been shopping around at other 10mm providers to see what the prices are like as GW seems to be a tad expensive in comparison when it comes to buying individual units.

Which, on topic, seems to be, at least in my eyes, a reason many of their specialist games see so little action, they are poorly priced compared to other offerings in the industry in this regard. GZG/Brigade prices compared to Epic is no contest and places like Irregular and several others beat GW pricing for Warmaster.

It is unfortunate that they jacked the price up so much because their 6mm-10mm games are brilliant compared to the core stuff (even BFG is pretty good for emulating the source material though I still prefer FT/Starmada for my starship gaming). Even some packaged army deals for Warmaster would help make these games more accesible, here's hoping if SG reboots that they go that direction. Offering on-line package deals that make their prices competitive in the 10mm Fantasy market would really help them out.

Cpt. Drill
23-01-2009, 11:59
Its true that there are alot of companies that make highly comparable figures in standard to GW's.


Gw should really bring the price down for the specialist games... Not just so I can buy more toy soldiers for my money, but these games were on their back foot befor and now its just to much for new people to get started... its a real shame seeing as how excillent warmaster is!

mickc22
31-01-2009, 09:15
I didn't realise it was that quiet, probably why I'm having trouble selling my High Elf Warhost :rolleyes:

..and the chances of GW bringing prices down is pretty slim, when I used to work at Maidstone company policy was "no sales, ever" of any kind. Stopped us doing the grab bags, etc. Mind you that was a long time ago :D


-mick

Nuada
02-02-2009, 09:22
probably why I'm having trouble selling my High Elf Warhost

Several friends of mine are about to start warmaster, he's a big High Elf fan as well. How much are you asking for them?

Zephro
11-02-2009, 23:59
Warmaster is probably the most well thought out and elegant rule system GW have ever put out. I think it suffered for GW being seen as a model company almost, with painting and modelling being huge parts of the "hobbY" they try to sell.

Warmaster Ancients works fantastically well.

zoggin-eck
12-02-2009, 09:55
Warmaster is probably the most well thought out and elegant rule system GW have ever put out. I think it suffered for GW being seen as a model company almost, with painting and modelling being huge parts of the "hobbY" they try to sell.

Agreed about it being well thought out and elegant!
What bothers me though is that as a company trying to sell the figures they still didn't do that well. I've seen some fantastic armies on the net and this site alone, and armies on a scale that actually makes the game worthwhile. I think they did the same thing with Epic 40k, advertising a big battle game by showing just a few stands among poor terrain.

Did you see the terrain in some of the reports? Or the article on making a battlefield which was a green table with a sprinkling of hobby store lichen, some scattered sand and stones? Hardly inspiring. Show me a huge town or city under siege, rolling hills and a mass of troops!

BrutalRage
16-05-2011, 14:47
I wanna get back into Warmaster, i had so much fun back in the day with my tomb king army :)

i lost a few models during a move though, so first gotta get some chariots, bowmen and inf to fill out my 2K points again :>

tinfish666
17-05-2011, 13:26
you should maybe have started a new thread rather than resurrect a 2 year old one.

There is a more active community over on the specialist games forums:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/sg/forum/index.php

have a look there.

azraelezekiel
17-05-2011, 18:29
you should maybe have started a new thread rather than resurrect a 2 year old one.


It does say he plays tomb kings :P

BrutalRage
18-05-2011, 06:16
It does say he plays tomb kings :P

exactly :> * orders lich priests to casts raise dead on topic*

Jean1951
16-08-2011, 20:41
Warmaster is far from gone. Just need to dust off the figures.

Jean

Vos
17-08-2011, 11:39
Echoing others: Warmaster is not dead. It's just pretty dead on this forum.

I would actually say that it's thrived since being given over to the fanatic community. The fact that the rules are stable and not being continually tweaked (excuse to sell the latest edition) makes the game more stable for our group. New army lists are being brought out and that keeps the game fresh. The fact there are more armies out for warmaster now than WHFB helps!

Get the bulk of your stuff from e bay and just 'fill out' any gaps with an order from GW - it's much cheaper.

Best game GW ever released in my humble opinion.

Vos

Amnar
18-08-2011, 20:29
Warmaster is hands down my fave GW game. If only I could paint more quickly....

fracas
18-08-2011, 21:02
Warmaster is more active here

http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php

Nuada
21-08-2011, 10:11
Warmaster is hands down my fave GW game.

It's my favourite as well. Warmaster and Blood Bowl are the best 2 games they've made. (i've not tried BFG, but i've heard good things about it)

It's a shame there aren't more players with WM armies where i live. We've only got 4 players. I'd like a massive 6-a-side gam, each player with 2k or 3k armies

Avatar of the Eldar
31-08-2011, 06:40
Warmaster is more active here

http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php

I've had the Warmaster rules for years and I love the mechanics. But no one in my gaming group has shown any interest. But now I'm looking for something new and I'm looking for resources.

So I just tried to go the link you recommended to register and I get this annoying error message reporting I'm banned, no mater what link I click on - home, help, register.

:wtf:

Geep
31-08-2011, 07:05
Odd... Check your PM's.

zoggin-eck
31-08-2011, 07:43
So I just tried to go the link you recommended to register and I get this annoying error message reporting I'm banned, no mater what link I click on - home, help, register.

:wtf:

http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=510.0

Vos
31-08-2011, 08:48
Try avoiding the link and just finding the website with Google then try to join manually?

Vos

Avatar of the Eldar
31-08-2011, 19:18
Thanks guys! (esp. Geep)

I shot Lex an email and he responded double quick. He says it's sorted.

I'll try again when I get to my personal laptop afterwork.

fracas
01-09-2011, 02:59
Hope that get sorted.
See you there.

Avatar of the Eldar
01-09-2011, 04:02
I'm in. Just posted a couple questions for the community there.

Slayerthane
16-01-2012, 22:39
My game store is actually in the middle of a warmaster map campaign right now. Before now, I also never saw anyone play but I have since purchased a couple armies. The main reason for success at my store is that the guy running the league has 8 different warmaster armies so players who don't have an army can participate as well. That's the only way I see warmaster being a viable gaming option. There just never were enough players who wanted to buy an army for it.

Spectrar Ghost
16-01-2012, 23:19
Two reasons, one common with all SGs, and fairly unique to WM.

1) Without a serious driving force, stores have no active support. If an employee starts getting people interested, SGs become popular. We recently had this happen with BB.

2) Cost. My Skaven are about $200 per thousand right now. There is no way that the amount of metal you get in a blister is worth $12-$15.

Nuada
18-01-2012, 13:18
Two reasons, one common with all SGs, and fairly unique to WM.

2) Cost.

Isn't a Warmaster army close to 50% of the cost of a warhammer army?

For a 3000 point army in Warmaster it'll cost you about 250
For a 3000 point army in warhammer it'll cost about 450-500

...and with the warmaster army you'll have loads more units on the table. It feels more like an army, i always felt warhammer felt like a skirmish game



Not saying either of the games are cheap, just saying that if you had a wargammer eager to start a new system then warmaster is cheaper than their core game.

Skaven are the extreme example in both games, if you go for the biggest horde you can get. :p



I personally think the real reason it's not played very often is advertising.
There is more profit to be made from 40k and WHFB, that's why they push both systems and get people to buy into it

Spectrar Ghost
18-01-2012, 13:46
It's true that Skaven are a high cost army in both games (my Skaven have 27 units at 2k). One of the guys in my group has a 34 unit VC army at 2k, though. It's a beast.

Anyhow, the problem as I see it is that I can't justify paying $15 per regiment. I just bit the bullet to bring my army up to 2k, but I'm not sure I'll go further.

To put this in perspective, My Skaven would cost around $450 to start from new to the 3k level. For $350 I can get 5k of Early Imperial Romans (an entire Legion, if each stand is a Century) for Warmaster Ancients from Baccus. Incidentally the unit counts are comparable: 13 each at 1k, 27 (Skaven) vs. 28 (Roman) at 2k, and 72 (Skaven) vs. 79 (Roman) at 5k. Oh, the 5k of Skaven works out to around $900 new.

The biggest thing about the price for me is psychological, though. If I hold a stand of Warmaster in my hand, it doesn't look or feel like $5. The same can be said of a Epic Leman Russ. $3-$3.50 is my psychological limit for a model that size.

Nuada
18-01-2012, 14:13
Well, i'm the worst person to ask because i paid less then 50% RRP for all my armies.

Baccus are 6mm aren't they? They were cheap, but we couldn't bring ourselves to buy the figures, didn't like them. There are other companies that produce 10mm figures (kallistra, pendraken etc) but i haven't seen any that top the GW WM range yet.

I can see what you mean by the cost v's the weight in your hand. But for me the ease of storage and transportation outweighs the........weight. :D
For example, my entire 3000 pnt dark army fits into an A4 box folder. My 3k WHFB O&G army has to be stored away into a glass cabinet, then transported in a massive carrying case, a smaller carrying case, and one A4 box folder.

Now and again there's WM armies on ebay that are cheap. I got a 3000 point very well painted Empire army for 30

Spectrar Ghost
18-01-2012, 14:28
Baccus is 6mm. Of course that means that the number of individuals on a a base doubles, which just adds to the feel of scale. :)

I did look at Kallistra Ratmen, but the savings didn't offset what look to be mediocre sculpts to me. Certainly they wouldn't fit with the stuff I already have. I agree that Warmaster has yet to be outdone in the 10mm Fantasy market.

The storage is nice. Not quite as easy as Epic, but better than the core games for sure. A GW case each for Skaven (2k, though 3k would fit) and Dark Elves (3k). I have my various Epic IG in a single large GW case. All 30k of it. (excepting flyers, which I still haven't found a good solution for)

wreiro
18-01-2012, 14:38
The pricing does seem a bit strange (High Elf boltthrowers for example)! But I agree that the figures are far and away better than anything else I have seen.

3K of Empire for 30 wish I had seen that!

Thanks
H

Nuada
18-01-2012, 14:54
The pricing does seem a bit strange (High Elf boltthrowers for example)! But I agree that the figures are far and away better than anything else I have seen.

3K of Empire for 30 wish I had seen that!

Thanks
H

You do get two Bolt Throwers in a unit. So that's 3.60 per bolt thrower. I think all the warmachines are the same.

The Empire ebay army was a mistake by the person that put it up, i was lucky :D
I was just after the Warmaster book (it's before i realised the rules and the armies are a free download) She had the rulebook clearly showing and a biscuit tin full of something, but the contents weren't visable. I could just see the top of 2 steam tanks. I sent her an email asking if it was a WM empire and for more photos. She gave no reply, so i took the risk.

I think it must have been a wife throwing out her husbands "old toys" She could have easily got 150-200 with good photos.

I'm giving the empire army to a friend of mine this week, that'll be 6 Warmaster players in our group :p bad news is he'll be getting more cannons than he can legally field!! For some reason the army contains about 12 cannons. :cries:

wreiro
18-01-2012, 15:16
Thats true buit 2 bolt throwers is 1 unit and a very small amount of metal!

That was luck for you! Ah... to have six keen WM players would be a joy. Will have to ask around the people I used to play for a game as I am getting the WM itch again just talking about it! I'll have to get a few more units painted as well.

Thanks
H

azraelezekiel
23-01-2012, 11:30
Best way to get folks interested is to run demo nights, provide them with everything and ensure they have a good time.
It's what I did and we have a few players our way, whereas others have done demo nights and then used it as an excuse to kick noobs around the table, funnily enough, they didn't play again :)

As for the price of stuff, if you trawl this site, ebay and others you can fall on bargains (not quite 30 for 3k) but it can be done.
Just watch the specifications and ask for clarification as lots of people list stuff in strips/bases/units meaning different things.

I also have a 3k unpainted empire army I am willing to part with cheap or in 1k blocks.
PM me if interested.

There is also talk of a couple of 'tournaments' in the UK this year ;)

kyussinchains
26-01-2012, 16:01
I think WM never got the support that other SG did, Epic in it's 'space marine' guise was the 3rd core game for a long time so there was a much bigger fanbase to draw on, blood bowl, necromunda and mordheim are skirmish games, bordering and indeed being board games. BFG is essentially man o war in space, and inquisitor I know nothing about....

I remember when WM first came out, virtually all of my warhammer playing buddies dismissed it as a terrible idea, and it probably suffered that reaction from many existing WFB players, unlike 40k which has titans and war engines which generally don't exist in a 40k game, warmaster was just WFB with smaller miniatures to my buddies and I, with nothing 'different' (I hesitate to mention a whole elegant ruleset encouraging genuine tactical play...) to bring to the party, my buddies and I had each built up large WFB armies, so we could have large scale games if we wanted....

I think those reasons may have contributed if not being the root cause...

azraelezekiel
31-01-2012, 15:00
I think WM never got the support that other SG did, Epic in it's 'space marine' guise was the 3rd core game for a long time so there was a much bigger fanbase to draw on, blood bowl, necromunda and mordheim are skirmish games, bordering and indeed being board games. BFG is essentially man o war in space, and inquisitor I know nothing about....

I remember when WM first came out, virtually all of my warhammer playing buddies dismissed it as a terrible idea, and it probably suffered that reaction from many existing WFB players, unlike 40k which has titans and war engines which generally don't exist in a 40k game, warmaster was just WFB with smaller miniatures to my buddies and I, with nothing 'different' (I hesitate to mention a whole elegant ruleset encouraging genuine tactical play...) to bring to the party, my buddies and I had each built up large WFB armies, so we could have large scale games if we wanted....

I think those reasons may have contributed if not being the root cause...

Have you ever played Warmaster?

kyussinchains
31-01-2012, 18:42
nope, although I would like to, if there was anyone around to play with

I should also add that my post was discussing why I think it has suffered, I certainly judged it so when it came out, I think you may have misunderstood it, I'm not bashing it, but discussing why I never had any interest in the game in an attempt to perhaps demonstrate why many other people never picked it up either and it's languishing in the current SG limbo

What in terms of miniatures (not including the araby experiment) does WM have use that WFB doesn't? epic armageddon has titans, superheavies, tank companies, all things that the average 40k player either doesn't own, or doesn't make regular use of...

to the casual observer it may seem that warmaster is just 'tiny warhammer' now I'm aware that isn't the case, but I still think it's how the game was viewed

Vos
02-02-2012, 20:29
The visual attraction of warmaster is the fact you are playing with thousands of little figures as opposed to just a hundred or two. Visually, it looks every bit as good as WHFB but only if you play with large armies on each side and nice terrrain. What it has that WHFB does not have is the fact you can do 120 man cavalry charges and flank marches with a thousand infantry. You can lose a brigade of infantry like you would lose a pawn in chess to gaina tactical advantage. Unlike in many games of 28mm where every unit and every dice roll really counts and 1 bad roll/round loses you the game.

Oh, and it's a really balanced, elegant and subtle system.

Vos

kyussinchains
03-02-2012, 08:39
yup, having read the rulebook, as well as becoming totally disenfranchised with WFB, I see the appeal of the game much more now.

I agree the huge battle thing to a point, but a 10k game of warhammer looks pretty epic in size, even if it's only just about representative of a standard game of warmaster

I'm totally not bashing the game at all here, I really like it, and I fully intend to pick up a couple of armies (probably brets and vamps as I've always liked them in WFB) in future, I'm just offering potential reasons as to why it never 'took off' like some of the other SG, it has great miniatures and a fantastic ruleset, but evidently those things aren't what everyone wants!

I know epic armageddon is undergoing a bit of a resurgence at the moment, I'm playing in a tournament tomorrow with 30 entrants, if it's not already happening, I think more people are looking to branch out into alternative wargames and maybe warmaster will gain a bit of popularity.... :)

Nuada
03-02-2012, 09:11
I'm just offering potential reasons as to why it never 'took off' like some of the other SG, it has great miniatures and a fantastic ruleset, but evidently those things aren't what everyone wants!
I think the reason is something you highlighted in an earlier post. People are very suspicious of anything GW brings out, all their attempts at a new system are seen as yet another way to part their customers with money. I see GW as the equivalent to Man Utd, everybody loves to hate them. People aren't keen on buying into a new system. Mordheim, Necromunda and Blood Bowl are all games where you have around 10 figures. With warmaster you need an army, so you have to commit time and effort and gamble that a) you'll have opponents to fight against and b) the game is good

For me personally we tried out warmaster towards the end of 7th edition warhammer. We haven't bothered with warhammer ever since (we prefer 8th ed to 7th) and i'm gutted we didn't try warmaster earlier. Now i'm selling all my warhammer figures, warmaster is a much better game. We now have a group of 6 WM players

Cuttle
05-02-2012, 18:10
Hi folks,

just joined the forums, and noticed this thread - really interesting to me at the moment because I'm in the process of trying to get some of my gaming buddies interested in Warmaster. Agree totally with the idea that people are reluctant to commit themselves to a new gaming system, so I've been buying bits and pieces from Ebay to get three small armies for Warmaster, in the hope that I can run some games for folks without them having to buy their own armies. My target audience is other WFB gamers who will probably want to translate their armies into the equivalent Warmaster armies if they do get into it, undead all round then! Interestingly, none of my gaming group had ever really heard of Warmaster before, and none had played epic 40K either.....but then neither system has been pushed in-store here or in White Dwarf etc for years, which as people have mentioned previously has no doubt had a lot to do with the lack of uptake....

zerodemon
05-02-2012, 18:35
The problem with Warmaster was GW never really bothered with it. It had the unfortunate position of being one of the later SG and GW kinda just threw it out and waited to see if it stuck. It didn't.

Great game though.

brm130
23-04-2012, 03:48
It also suffered some early crossover problems with WHFB. The Tomb Kings, Kislev, and Araby armies didn't (at the time) exist. And some popular FB armies like the Skaven, Vampire Counts, Daemons, and Dark Elves all came out way after the game had been apparently discontinued. I can't recall if Brettonia and Wood Elves even came out.

It's a shame, really since by all accounts it's a brilliant game and the models look great on the table. I played it a few times around launch, but it just never took off.

Vos
24-04-2012, 21:04
I am part of a group of 6 that all play warmaster as much (some of us more) than we play WHFB or 40K now. We have every army between us and we play HUGE games (10K a side is the record).

Just convert people one at a time.......

Vos

wreiro
25-04-2012, 11:34
@Vos that sounds awesome. I would love to get back into warmaster since I have 6 armies totalling over 15000pt. But nobody I know plays regularly. Dont suppose your group is near Edinburgh ;)?

Nurglitch_PS
25-04-2012, 16:28
I have recently bought a ton of games rulebooks. I tried DBA, but got repulsed both by the "Bakerese" language and Phil Bakers' attitude to those who tried to make his game clearer. So I bought the Warmaster Ancients rulebook and fell in love with the game. I've never ever seen a rule set so easy, clear and graceful. I managed to acquire Warmaster Ancient Armies and the Warmaster Medieval is right now in the post, headed towards me. I have since bought FoG and Hail Ceasar but Warmaster Ancients still appeals to me the most. Tomorrow I'm playing a 1000p game with a friend, Romans vs Britons.

Vos
25-04-2012, 17:07
Wreiro

Sorry, no, were based around Preston/Southport in the North West of England. The best way to convert someone is to get 2 armies yourself and paint them to a decent standard, practice a couple of solo battles then invite them round for a test game. A lot of effort but its worth it..... Warmaster is the best game GW has ever made in my humble opinion.
Vos

wreiro
26-04-2012, 12:56
Vos, oh well it was worth asking! Yeah I have like 5 armies some of the figures are even painted. I played a few gmaes when it can out and one about a year ago as a demo for a friend. Will have to push a couple of folk to play another game soon.

H

sigur
26-04-2012, 13:11
It's always a bit weird when people assume that a system isn't present simply because it's not mentioned in 40k General or WHFB General (or the PPP sections) all the time. Warmaster is pretty darned alive and, in my opinion as someone who plays 40k and WHFB, is quite a bit healthier than 40k and WHFB. ;)

Amnar
26-04-2012, 19:42
It's pretty dead in my area, which is a shame because I love it. We have a small gaming group that loves it, but it's hard to attract new blood....

Jind_Singh
25-05-2012, 16:52
It's pretty dead in my area, which is a shame because I love it. We have a small gaming group that loves it, but it's hard to attract new blood....

Woah! You live in Vancouver?! Excellent - I just got myself a painted Empire army, unassembled Empire, and Orcs & Goblins - I too want to grow a group! Maybe we should meet up in July to get in a friendly game?!

(As I'm in the UK until June 15th!)

Whitesilk
03-06-2012, 17:57
Its dead in my area...looong dead. At the time I and a store employ were the only ones playing (I know he was bashed into playing by his boss)! hahahaha

Though...anyone in MD that plays? Drop me a line. I'd love to get reintroduced to the system.

Verm1s
03-06-2012, 20:07
It's pretty dead in my area, which is a shame because I love it. We have a small gaming group that loves it

I'll react with more concern if you say you also have several larger gaming groups in your area. :p Even so, as long as you have someone to play it with...

Me, I'm going to try and get two groups interested. See the sig.

(One has a guy who already plays Warmaster Ancients, but tends to break out in hives at the mention of the word 'fantasy')

Amnar
17-06-2012, 21:02
Woah! You live in Vancouver?! Excellent - I just got myself a painted Empire army, unassembled Empire, and Orcs & Goblins - I too want to grow a group! Maybe we should meet up in July to get in a friendly game?!

(As I'm in the UK until June 15th!)

Sounds good bud, hit me up when you're back in town.

yabbadabba
17-06-2012, 21:39
I have 2x6k armies - Tomb Kings and Empire. In fact they maybe bigger than that. At the moment I think SGs are GWs hidden gems, and I kind of hope it stays this way.

As usual with these things, the reasons why GW dropped WM from the stores are more complex than "they didn't support it". As a store manager at the time I can say that was not the case at all.

Vos
18-06-2012, 20:03
I just hope they stay low profile enough to continue. Apart from the cupboard space they're using up and the caster's time to spin up the moulds, its not as if its actually diverting any real running costs to keep it going. It's a pity Rick was never allowed to do his 2nd edition Warmaster. No chance of that now! Still I suppose they're only protecting their IP.

I probably have over 50K points of various armies for warmaster including 10K of Chaos and 10K of Orcs and Goblins. The Empire are next!!!!

Vos (Warmaster Nutter)

NemesisCH
26-06-2012, 00:02
We are just about to start again with the Warmaster. It took a long time, but now I'm finally back playing WM with 4 more players. In coordination with an other club, we have decided to use the Warmaster scale (10mm/12mm) in the historical setting too. Before someone asks, we are in Switzerland (Europe). We will participate at this years German Games Day with a Warmaster game table.

KentishNomad
18-07-2012, 08:46
Warmaster was a great game, why were GW against a 2nd edition? I'm sure fans would be happy to contribute for free...

Battlefleet Gothic has experienced something of a renaissance so there's no reason why we can't work towards the same with warmaster.

yabbadabba
18-07-2012, 08:49
@KentishNomad - there are plenty of threads on Warseer about SGs and the ins and outs of the product. Have a search and you will get more answers than you want.

Cobalt
05-08-2012, 11:45
We are just about to start again with the Warmaster. It took a long time, but now I'm finally back playing WM with 4 more players. In coordination with an other club, we have decided to use the Warmaster scale (10mm/12mm) in the historical setting too. Before someone asks, we are in Switzerland (Europe). We will participate at this years German Games Day with a Warmaster game table.

Hey NemesisCH, I just moved to Zurich, with Orcs, Empire, Dwarfs, etc... all looking for new friends to grind their axes on...Where do you guys meet?

smaul
04-09-2012, 21:41
well, Im brand new to this forum for WM so some of us continue to trickle in. I have the rulebook, the downloads of GW site and 3 starter army boxes I got cheap, Empire, High Elves and Orcs with some extra blisters in each.

Im going to work on a 500 point army for Undead, and maybe high elves to fight them. until I can suck a few guys into this game :)

Autumn Leaves
30-05-2013, 22:30
There is still a core group of players out there doing 10mm warmaster and warmaster ancients.

Woudschim
05-09-2013, 10:27
Awesome, I found one, maybe two people interested in playing Warmaster (both with large enough armies to fight some big battles!

I miss playing the game, time to dust off my orcs and goblins, and start making new terrain.

quizmaster
19-01-2014, 15:13
Awesome, I found one, maybe two people interested in playing Warmaster (both with large enough armies to fight some big battles!

I miss playing the game, time to dust off my orcs and goblins, and start making new terrain. Check out 'The Pretzhelburgh Chronicles'in the Fantasy project log for my Empire Army And the real good part I live in the Netherlands so playing is an option

Sotek
19-01-2014, 18:48
Seen it played once, never got into it. No one I know played fantasy let alone WMaster

Quiet Sage
20-07-2015, 15:21
There's actually quite a lot of gamers using Warmaster historical rules, and most of them also have fantasy. There's also the WW2 version (Blitzkrieg Commanders IIRC), which is nice.
So the rules have a hard core of fans that continue to play it, but yeah, not a lot of new comers.
What attracts most is the big army feel, what chases many away is the way command works. Still, it's a nice set to play epic looking battles in a reasonable time to a proper finish.

EagleWarrior
21-07-2015, 10:45
Warmaster never did as well as epic and never got the 'glory days' that that system did. I think there are a number of reasons for this. The first is when it started. Epic (or Epic type games) started not long after 40k, early on while GW was finding it's feet and was giving support for far more games than we see today. It received many versions, lots of rounds of models added to the range and developed a large fan base. By the time Warmaster hit the scene, GW was already starting to focus on it's main games of 40k and Fantasy, and would soon be adding LotR to the mix. Warmaster only got one rules addition (and it was a bit strange, dragons on their own being way less powerful than dragons in units etc.), not many models and only really one round of enthusiasm from White Dwarf.

Secondly, in my opinion, was the decision to go for 10mm instead of 6mm. Less informed players who didn't know about the 10mm scene outside GW found it odd that 'mini Fantasy' was a different scale to 'mini 40k', and it blocked any conversions between the two model sets (fatasy orcs as snakebites, ogres with guns as ogrins etc.), decreasing uptake. For players that DID know about the 10mm scene, Warmaster didn't really stand out from the crowd. The models were lower quality than most of GW stuff and didn't stand out from any number of small scale 10mm manufacturers. They didn't even have the virtue of looking much like their Fantasy counterparts, as the designers made the (in my opinion very poor) decision to go in different directions for a lot of the miniatures.

The final problem, and the one that killed it for me, was that all the models were metal. This is, of course, indicative of the other problems of little support from GW and being no real difference from any other 10mm game (especially fantasy ones), but for me it was the final nail in the coffin. Those big blocks of metal troops fused together were impossible to convert (I tried) and not even having basic troops in plastic is a real pig.

All in all, I think it just never picked up enough players to make enough of a fan base. I move around a lot and whenever I get to a new gaming club I find quite a few people who say 'I used to play Epic, I've probably got an army or two I can bring next week' but that just isn't so for Warmaster. I'm very pleased whenever I do see it, and I'd love to see it get the love it deserved, but as GW has even scrapped Warhammer, I think anything would have to come from fans.

EagleWarrior
21-07-2015, 10:47
I've had an idea for a while of sculpting some lizardmen models that look more like the modern ones with the head headcrests and casting them in resin. Would anybody be interested in such a thing?

Aldhick
21-07-2015, 14:43
Strongly disagree on the quality of WM sculpst... in fact in this scale they didn't have any match (in technical as well as artistic quality) for many years..
Actually there is quite active fan base spread around the world gatherin here: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php
The lizardmen army idea has also seen the light of the day http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_100_101&products_id=12981

Samsonov
21-07-2015, 17:56
I've had an idea for a while of sculpting some lizardmen models that look more like the modern ones with the head headcrests and casting them in resin. Would anybody be interested in such a thing?
Not me personally (I'm 6mm fantasy personally) but there have been recent kickstarters for 10mm models compatible with warmaster. I suspect lizardmen would have an audience.

EagleWarrior
21-07-2015, 20:23
I do quite like the idea of using 6mm models for Warmaster and sticking to the same base size and rules.

Samsonov
21-07-2015, 20:35
If you are not familiar with them, these are excellent 6mm: http://www.microworldgames.com/collections/6mm-fantasy I fit 18 models on a single 20mm by 40mm base. Never saw GW 10mm in the flesh but I find the 6mm stuff gives a better feel of mass than the 10mm historicals I've seen.

Senbei
21-07-2015, 21:17
Warmaster never did as well as epic and never got the 'glory days' that that system did. I think there are a number of reasons for this. The first is when it started. Epic (or Epic type games) started not long after 40k, early on while GW was finding it's feet and was giving support for far more games than we see today. It received many versions, lots of rounds of models added to the range and developed a large fan base. By the time Warmaster hit the scene, GW was already starting to focus on it's main games of 40k and Fantasy, and would soon be adding LotR to the mix. Warmaster only got one rules addition (and it was a bit strange, dragons on their own being way less powerful than dragons in units etc.), not many models and only really one round of enthusiasm from White Dwarf.

Secondly, in my opinion, was the decision to go for 10mm instead of 6mm. Less informed players who didn't know about the 10mm scene outside GW found it odd that 'mini Fantasy' was a different scale to 'mini 40k', and it blocked any conversions between the two model sets (fatasy orcs as snakebites, ogres with guns as ogrins etc.), decreasing uptake. For players that DID know about the 10mm scene, Warmaster didn't really stand out from the crowd. The models were lower quality than most of GW stuff and didn't stand out from any number of small scale 10mm manufacturers. They didn't even have the virtue of looking much like their Fantasy counterparts, as the designers made the (in my opinion very poor) decision to go in different directions for a lot of the miniatures.

The final problem, and the one that killed it for me, was that all the models were metal. This is, of course, indicative of the other problems of little support from GW and being no real difference from any other 10mm game (especially fantasy ones), but for me it was the final nail in the coffin. Those big blocks of metal troops fused together were impossible to convert (I tried) and not even having basic troops in plastic is a real pig.

All in all, I think it just never picked up enough players to make enough of a fan base. I move around a lot and whenever I get to a new gaming club I find quite a few people who say 'I used to play Epic, I've probably got an army or two I can bring next week' but that just isn't so for Warmaster. I'm very pleased whenever I do see it, and I'd love to see it get the love it deserved, but as GW has even scrapped Warhammer, I think anything would have to come from fans.

Also, don't forget that, at the time, an army in Epic had significantly more unit choices than its 40k counterpart. A good number of units from 40k were in Epic first... mostly tanks, but also some monsters and a few more obscure infantry types. There are still a ton of Epic vehicles that have never made it into 28mm, despite the best attempts of Epicast and Armorcast.

Warmaster also never managed that and never had anything to fill the gap filled by Titans in Epic.

Geep
25-07-2015, 10:02
Warmaster did have some things before Warhammer- like the Khemri Sphinx and, I think, Bone Giant.
Some things were in Warmaster that never reached Warhammer at all, like the Araby army, and the expanded Kislev range.
The style of the models did fit the current Warhammer range- at the time of sculpting. It's just a little awkward that the Warhammer range was changing just as Warmaster came out. Some 'new' style sculpts were made- like a floating Slann, rather than a carried one, but by the time they were out GW had already drastically scaled back all Specialist Games production.
It's also very unfortunate that, when GW cut the Specialist Games cord, they did so with ultimate brutality- projects on the verge of release were scrapped, and exist nowadays as near-myth (Warmaster Dwarf Ironbreakers). Some may have seen a few days of release, or an event-only presence, but no more- like Dwarf Hammerers, and on the Epic side of things the Stormwind book.

Fortunately, as posters above have linked to, Warmaster is still around and has dedicated players. The number of alternative sculptors is amazing given the relative size of the player base, and the quality of some is exceptional. It's quite easy now for new players to be recruited thanks to these alternative casts.

The_Real_Chris
28-07-2015, 15:37
The casts were excellent and fairly unique. No other company made 10mm strips like them.

For good reason, if you ever talk to Rick P about casting them he will revel they were hell on rubber moulds. In short they were a lot more expensive to cast and in retrospect GW wished they had done seperate troops!

It also suffered from the Sci Fi preference amoung GW customers. Epic 4th ed sold 4 times as much as warmaster (according to Jervis), considering one was launched before SG and one after, that is pretty surprising.

Samsonov
28-07-2015, 16:11
It also suffered from the Sci Fi preference amoung GW customers. Epic 4th ed sold 4 times as much as warmaster (according to Jervis), considering one was launched before SG and one after, that is pretty surprising.I never got into 4th ed Epic or Warmaster at the time, what was the comparrative buy in cost? Epic 3rd ed was I believe comparatively cheap, whereas when the specialist games website launched epic 4th ed looked quite expensive, but does anyone know about initial release?

On another note, Epic already had a sold player base whereas Warmaster was completely new.

Vos
01-08-2015, 19:04
I am a hard core warmaster player and have been since it came out. It was so good it basically killed my interest in WHFB in 28mm scale. I own 6000 to 10000 point sized armies of nearly all of the races.
It has a fanatical following but its probably one of the smallest followings of the specialist games, smaller than Epic (which I also love). Its most definitely not dead and there are TONS of proxy and alternative models if you search the web for 10 and 15mm fantasy figures. The 'specialist arms' web site is the single biggest site where the warmaster community hangs out. Units like dwarf iron breakers and dwarf hammerers, Halfling hot pots, pygmies, goblin suicide flyers (sorry don't know what they're called, the ones with pointy hats that are fired at the enemy) and many other gems that were never officially released used to be around and you could get them if you knew the right people and had deep pockets (sorry but no, I can't get them anymore before anyone asks).

I collect 10mm in other genre's and I think that many of the warmaster models still hold up as some of the finest 10mm I've seen. The araby and skaven are particularly detailed, characterful and well proportioned. There is the odd race which isn't generally considered to be quite as good as the others depending on who the sculptor was but I won't name names as this is personal opinion and I don't want to offend anyone. I know that some of these sculptors of the original GW ranges are being commissioned to make new figures by fans (that don't mess with GW IP of course, but then again, GW can't copyright all of its ranges as most of them were based on historical soldiers/armies.

Warmaster did o.k. but it just wasn't profitable enough to be kept alive. One of the main contributing reasons it was binned was that the moulds were all going and the management didn't want to re-invest any new resources in the game when they could make more money making space marines and other stuff. I'm not happy about that but I invested so heavily for so long in that game that I had nearly everything anyway when the plug was pulled. New players will not have any problem coming into the game if they want to play a certain army e.g. Empire or Araby but may struggle more if they want to play others e.g. Skaven.

Back in the day a blister was a unit and you probably needed an average minimum unit count of 20 to play a small but decent game. So compared to big Warhammer it was cheap. Mind you, it's still cheap compared to Warhammer even if you're buying warmaster off e bay!!! :)

Best game GW ever made IMHO.

Vos

The_Real_Chris
01-08-2015, 20:46
Best game GW ever made IMHO.

Vos

Warmaster is 100% the best rules concept GW did. Warmaster wasn't the best implementation though due to cav, but check out Warmaster ancients to see the fixes.

But yes, want a go to system for a historical period? Warmaster. Blitzkrieg commanded is ace, Cold War commander handles the period better than anything else (decades ahead of challenger 2000 :) ). Warmaster ancients is in a crowded field but you pick it up faster than anything else due to familiarity with the core system.

Sci fi didn't work that well, not sure why though. Still
It alerted me to space 1999 eagle transports in 1/300 :)


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The_Real_Chris
01-08-2015, 20:56
I never got into 4th ed Epic or Warmaster at the time, what was the comparrative buy in cost? Epic 3rd ed was I believe comparatively cheap, whereas when the specialist games website launched epic 4th ed looked quite expensive, but does anyone know about initial release?

On another note, Epic already had a sold player base whereas Warmaster was completely new.

A lot of epic sales were the new units to existing players. Otherwise thanks to the plastic infantry it could be very cheap to get an army together. Backward compatibility with eBay made stuff like marines a 20 army potentially. Then you might want a few of the new units and so on...


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