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Evil-Lite
01-06-2007, 06:27
Had a few games in the last week that made the gaming group think about the outcome. After thinking about the outcome I thought of different situations that could occur and would those be handled the same. I wonder how other people would use the rules to interpret the outcome.

First situation.

A Dwarf Warrior unit is sandwiched between two units (Front and Rear) with a second Dwarf Long Beard unit in the flank of the Rear unit.

Hopefully that is clear enough. Now to the questions:

1. If the Longbeards kill off every model they are fighting (ok, there was a character in the unit) can they over run even if the entire combat was lost?

2. If the Longbeards are fighting zombies and the Dwarf Warriors are fighting Ghouls to the front. If the zombies are killed from combat resolution and the Ghouls flee from being broken. What choices do the Longbeards have? Can they over run the now dead zombies? Can they chase the ghouls even though not in base contact?

Second situation:

A unit of Kroxigars are attacking the flank of a skeleton unit and whittle it down to 1 rank. A Vampire is the only model on the side of the Kroxigars and 3 Skeletons are on the opposite side with a unit of Terradons attacking them (the Vampire and skeletons are in the same unit). On the flank of the Terradons is a ranked unit of zombies.

1. If the remaining skeletons are killed by the Terradons what would happen with the combat? Would the Vampire and Kroxigars slide over to be in contact with the Terradons? Would the Terradons and Zombies slide over to make contact with the vampire? Would the combat be split into two seperate battles at that point?

Gorbad Ironclaw
01-06-2007, 07:36
Q1: No, you can't. It's still one big combat, so if you lose it, you lost it. You won't get seperated out from the combat until after that step, so no overrunning.

Q2: If you win and wipes out the unit they were fighting, then yes, they can overrun. I don't think you can pursue a unit your not actually fighting, but that one is a bit more tricky(meaning, I'd have to get my rulebook)

Q3: You would shuffle it so that everybody was still in contact. How you do it is left pretty much up to yourself, as there are no real rules guidelines on how to do it.

Atrahasis
01-06-2007, 10:16
Q1: No, you can't. It's still one big combat, so if you lose it, you lost it. You won't get seperated out from the combat until after that step, so no overrunning.There is no requirement that a unit be on the winning side to be able to overrun, only that it wipes out all "its enemies". Whether that means all the enemy models involved in the combat or just the ones fighting that particular unit is open to debate.


Q2: If you win and wipes out the unit they were fighting, then yes, they can overrun. I don't think you can pursue a unit your not actually fighting, but that one is a bit more tricky(meaning, I'd have to get my rulebook)The Longbeards pursue the ghouls or test to restrain. pp44


Q3: You would shuffle it so that everybody was still in contact. How you do it is left pretty much up to yourself, as there are no real rules guidelines on how to do it.Agreed.

Masque
01-06-2007, 11:09
There is no requirement that a unit be on the winning side to be able to overrun, only that it wipes out all "its enemies". Whether that means all the enemy models involved in the combat or just the ones fighting that particular unit is open to debate.

There is another requirement. The unit can only overrun if it charged and killed all it's enemies in the first round of combat.

BRB, page 43, Overrun:
"If a unit charges into combat and, by the end of that turn's combat phase all its enemies have been wiped out..."


The Longbeards pursue the ghouls or test to restrain. pp44

I really don't think this is right.

BRB, Page 40, Declare Pursuit Intentions:
"If a unit wins a combat and the enemies it is in contact with flee, then the victorious unit must normally pursue."
BRB, Page 44, Multiple Fleeing & Pursuing:
"A victorious unit that can pursue may choose to pursue any of the enemies that were engaged with it and are now fleeing away from it."

Atrahasis
01-06-2007, 11:15
I really don't think this is right.

BRB, Page 40, Declare Pursuit Intentions:
"If a unit wins a combat and the enemies it is in contact with flee, then the victorious unit must normally pursue."
BRB, Page 44, Multiple Fleeing & Pursuing
"A victorious unit that can pursue may choose to pursue any of the enemies that were engaged with it and are now fleeing away from it."

That's what I get for reading the summary rather than the full rule.

DeathlessDraich
01-06-2007, 13:36
Second situation:
I'm not exactly sure of the exact positions of each unit but:

1) If the Terradons were initially not in btb contact with the Vampire Lord, the combat could be split into two - Vampire Lord vs Kroxis and Terradons vs Zombies, if both players decide that the Vampire Lord is a new unit.

2) If VC wins the combat, only the zombies can redress ranks to maximise. Kroxis can only redress if they slay the Vampire Lord, while Terradons, skellies or Vampire Lord can never redress to maximise.

Evil-Lite
02-06-2007, 01:48
Thanks for the answers. The last two questions are the answers I thought they would be. The first question I am still undecided on.

I do not see the Longbeards taking a break test because they have no enemy in contact with them (although they would still supply rank bonus and kills to the combat resolution. No flank though).

If the Longbeards are able to do an over run, who would go first? Break test on the Warriors and pursue roll (if warriors broke) for the enemy unit or the Longbeards over-run? Could make a huge factor in who gets a flank charge.

Jonke
02-06-2007, 02:00
There is no requirement that a unit be on the winning side to be able to overrun, only that it wipes out all "its enemies". Whether that means all the enemy models involved in the combat or just the ones fighting that particular unit is open to debate.

A unit can't lose combat if they wipe out their enemy. Thus if a unit loses combat they have not wiped out their enemy. "Its enemies" must refer to all enemy units in the combat.

Peace!