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Autobot HQ
03-06-2007, 10:50
Taking advice from another esteemed member of our group, I present to you a Vision of what this group is, what ideas I have and where I see us going. Also, there is a poll (Yes another one) just to see if everyone is happy with the Swiss System. Ok, on with the rant...I mean, Vision.

When I looked upon the league about a year ago, I saw so much potential for fun, exciting things that could revolve around the league. WSTV for example, which everyone loved in the Division One. Then more and more ideas of specialist tournaments with a theme, logos and the idea of a magazine. I wanted to encourage people to join so they could be apart of a friendly enjoyable league before they moved onto the Premiership and faced the real bad boys. Then I had an oppotunity to take over and run the entire group, which I'll say right now I relished. I could redesign the page, introduce new ideas and fine tune the rules. And dear lord it took fine tuning after I got my hands on it. I wrote things that made perfect sense to me at the time, but read badly. It confused people, and at first we were lost.

Fast forward to today, and I believe that whilst we are still somewhat lost, we can see the light through the trees. The rules of the league themselves are now clear and much more precise, the page itself looks good and the MITB incentive seems to work well. People who join can instantly understand the rules and they are not so strict that it feels restrictive. I feel that at the moment, the only area of confusion is how the actual League itself will be run, and once that is established we shall in fact have a working, fully functioning group. And that's cool.

My vision of the future is grand, make no mistake. We now have eighteen members all who appear active (bar Riddy, but I believe he is on holiday though I may be mistaken). However, even with eighteen players I do not want to rest on my laurels. I want more players, more teams and more options. Once the league itself is on track and essentially running itself, I want to take this league to the place I originally wanted: A fun place for people to play. I want to run specialist tournaments, much like the Weapon Master idea that Benny ran with. I want to do Doubles Tournaments and I want to run Knock-Out Tournaments woth grand titles and prizes, if only in the shape of pictures for you team page. I want to encourage a real RolePlay attitude to running a team, with people wanting to write about their teams success and wanting to write about how Ogreos Cookies want to sponsor a player. This is my vision.

I believe that as of now, the system we should use is the Swiss System. It ensures players are playing against people who can win and lose as much as they can, and I believe that by enforcing strict deadlines that we can make sure the games get played quickly and efficently. Not allowing extentions based on "I couldn't get on", although individual circumstances are different. A hard deadline is what is needed I believe. This is the first time I've really stepped up and wanted to enforce such a deadline, but it is needed if the league is going to play well under the Swiss System.

Also, I would like to say that whilst I am indeed President Elect of The Warseer Blood Bowl League, I occasionally need curving in the right direction. In this regards, I will now be using my lieutenants Yorkiebar and Bennistein in any and all big decisions and will NOT be changing any rules until I have their consent also. Power should not rest with one person, it just doesn't help the system.

Thank you for your time and patience in reading this post. Please, post your comments, thoughts and your own visions of this league. In one week I will re-address this post and restart the next round in the league. I hope to get ALL of your thoughts on this.


Many regards, Stuart
President Elect of Warseer Blood Bowl League

tenpole
03-06-2007, 11:01
Thats one week guys to get the dis town aint big enuff tournament finished.

Yorkiebar
03-06-2007, 11:07
Gah, misclick. I meant to vote Swiss.

tenpole
03-06-2007, 11:10
There was no option for scheduled round robin. So out of the proposed choices I choose Swiss as I prefer this to open round robin.

Had there been an ordinary Round robin choice that is the one I would pick (The tournament Structure used in the WSFA - Did Y' Spill Me Pint).

Deng Ham
03-06-2007, 11:12
To me 18 payer is too mutch to have in a single group. I woud love to see smaler groups with 4-6 teams in each. And that the winners end up playing a Ko cup.
It's not too important to face off agains equal teams. Half of the fun in a league is facing up against the bigger teams. And to do the unexpected.

So my vote for league settup. Woud be the same system used in soccer euro and world cups.

And a big YES to the strict deadline. Now we know that the league moves forward. And I can plan on getting the game sett.

Yorkiebar
03-06-2007, 11:22
Iscariot, can I remind you that a KO needs to be set up before next season to decide who gets the cup this season?

PhrollikK
03-06-2007, 11:44
Swiss all the way. Although I don't like how the swiss system has paired opponents in the past it still works well, especially in regards to having scheduled games against set opponents.

I would like to notify el presidenté that I will be on holiday 2 weeks from 15th June, so if I'm not available to play then don't hold your breath... Internet availabaility is still a question mark for the holiday ;)

Keravin
03-06-2007, 11:53
I'd still prefer to have the variety that more than one team per player allows. Some people can choose to focus on one, but for those of us with the time I still think having multiple different teams would be a plus.

Swiss just means that first game of every new competition I get my butt kicked by Gres.

tenpole
03-06-2007, 13:05
You can have a variety of teams LRB5 warseer, stunty warseer or official warseer.

LordSnotball
03-06-2007, 14:15
Variety of teams from the guy who wants to boot 1 orc team... Tenpole, you do realise that we have 3 human teams too, dont you?

we actually have 17 players, riddy and sigmarschamp have been inactive in over a month, so i think its best not to count them in...

I'd propose splitting the group into 3 ranges, 100-150, 151-200, and 201+. Th0r would prefer just 100-150, and 151+, but the TR difference it too high IMO, and ppl would ust choose not to play matches...

Personally i like the regular Round Robin (that Tenpole uses) the most, as the players who finish their matches 1st get the opportunity to play their next match before the deadline arrives. in the carcass tourney, that meant i got 3 matches in 1 afternoon (losing all of them obviously)... this speeds up the tourney, esp compared to the swiss system

2nd choice would be open round robin, coz then i can arrange to play anyone, regardless of TR, and dont have to wait for anyone... over the last week i had 4 matches arranged, with a bit of motivation, open round robin could be interesting...

3rd choice KO tournaments, as long as they are short... 8-4-2 is the maximum, the prob is that if u get kicked out 1st round, u have to wait a month before u get to play again, i dislike that.

4th choice Swiss. I dont trust the seeding... *shrug*

the most important thing for me is seeing the matches take place within a set time limit... i still reckon the 1st/15th of the month system is the best and least ambiguous... what ive seen so far is flexibility, and delaying 14 coaches for the benefit of 2. id like that to change...

other than that, i also agree that you need someone to consult with. tbh till now i've seen you more as an Ogre with Loner Skill rather than a team player passing the ball onto a rookie lineman to help us all grow with the league...

let's hope that this will help us turn a new leaf and things will start going more smoothly now... fore-warning, deadlines, equality, fairness and fairplay, and we might find more ppl from here in WS joining our league...

May your Positionals become Star Players without Niggles!
(BB version of "Live long and prosper")

tenpole
03-06-2007, 17:04
Variety of teams from the guy who wants to boot 1 orc team... Tenpole, you do realise that we have 3 human teams too, dont you?



So, I play an Orc team. and don't like the crowding. There are two types of team for me currently, orcs and not orcs.

If Ncicckkc does not turn up before the president will officially end all tournaments I will drop my orc team as Phrollikk kicked my orcs in.

LordSnotball
03-06-2007, 17:08
*tickle tenpole*

tenpole
03-06-2007, 18:05
My Vision

I will have coaches that reply to pm's.

th0r
03-06-2007, 18:12
My Vision

Play at least 1 game a week.

LordSnotball
03-06-2007, 18:17
My Vision:

a hairy cheerleader shaving her chest...

and to play 1 match a week too

Lardidar
03-06-2007, 18:35
One match a week seems fair,

I like the idea of the football world cup style, mini groups of 4-5 teams with top 2 going to play in a KO.

I aint voting though as I am happy to play whatever style, so long as I am told who my opponent is I don't mind.

Fredox
04-06-2007, 11:45
Personally i like the regular Round Robin (that Tenpole uses) the most, as the players who finish their matches 1st get the opportunity to play their next match before the deadline arrives. in the carcass tourney, that meant i got 3 matches in 1 afternoon (losing all of them obviously)... this speeds up the tourney, esp compared to the swiss system


Exactly what he said. Getting to play matches before the last round ends can help. I've done this on a couple of occasions and it meant that my opponents didn't have to wait untill I got back from my time away. Alternativly it lets most of the leage move on rather than waiting for somebody to finnish thier swiss round robin game so we can find out who our next opponent is.

LordSnotball
04-06-2007, 19:22
i agree with fredox who's agreeing with me...

roses are red
violets are blue
im a split personality
and so am i

Arkzein
04-06-2007, 21:28
Just to chime in. Dust off the old rhetoric ;)

It would be a set round robin for my money, one week per game, with official matches only allowing for SPP. (And to that end structuring the fixtures so that no two games running are played against "bashy" teams, ie always one "recovery" game.) Good ole bias in that for me, given I first ran such a league format and maybe only a couple of games a week would be possible for me anyway now. When only playing that amount puts one too far behind to bother (ie by week two I may be on 110TR and a fellow newbie in my lower league could be 220 having started the same time)... ;)

Structure, I wouldn't use TR as it will always be in flux and isn't a perfect estimate of team strength or player skill (Some can do wonders with only a few rats ;)). Rather normal pyramid system with promotions and relegations which will sort things much more conclusively. (Ie A League, B1, B2 ,B3 of which the top team of each goes to A) Always thought about 6 teams per league would leave things finished fast. (5/6weeks per season inclusing organising time)

And then for those who want to play more, an open league with as many teams as you want. Open Round robin may even work well for it.

There are more longwinded posts of me spewing this forth somewhere around here. :P

Anyway, things back to normal for me now, about to head back to Ireland, haven't even thought about BB again until now given I'll be dusting the Malefactors off for some Real games in the League back there.

[/lurk]

Deng Ham
04-06-2007, 21:33
woot... Arks back...
Thought that the zombies had taken controll of you

PhrollikK
04-06-2007, 21:55
Good to see you again Arkzein! And as always you speaketh the truth! :)

tenpole
04-06-2007, 22:57
Welcome Arkzein. Good to hear from you again. Any time you want to come back to WSFA (stunty) give me a shout.

Actually I will ask you to come back with a stunty team. Its still a good crowd.

LordSnotball
05-06-2007, 07:07
For the reference... once in a tournament, your team can't upload any games not directly from the tournament...

and when you play a round robin, you don't decide in advance who is playing whom, it is relatively random, but each coach will get to play everyone else in the tourney... the only thing u can do is replace a cpl of coaches with tourneyfillers, and re-instate the coaches in a different order, but as far as im concerned thats tampering and cheating...

i'd prefer to play 3 straight bashy teams tbh...

i'll shut up now :)

-Snottie

Search
05-06-2007, 13:08
What I would like to see is a bit more interactivity in our league.

Right now we have only 1 tournament at the time and it can be quite some time between games.
This is a sad thing because I like playing against you guys, it improves my skills and gives me something to look forward to.

Some ideas that I would propose.

Let people have multiple teams ( up till 3) and let them decide if they enter a tournament or not, have a low level , a medium level and a high level team around.

Theme months.
It would be fun to have a running theme for the league such as for example a racial hatred tournament.
A number of ppl bring in a freshly created team that will only play in that tournament.
Only race vs race is allowed so for example we have one of Dwarves vs orcs , then half of the members play dwarves and the other ones play orcs.
After the month the teams leave the tournney again or them may become one of your regular teams.

Have a overall ranking.
Now we get points in tournaments but a ranking system would be fun and good for bragging rights.
Have ppl who do well in tourney amass points and have the leaders play each other.

OverallI'm happy with the league but as I said, some more interactivity would make it even more fun.

Searchonomicon

tenpole
05-06-2007, 16:31
It had been discussed multiple times one team only. It had been discussed and decided I thought the standard round robin was the way we would play.

There are other warseer groups to enter other teams, the stunty and LRB5 group.

LordSnotball
06-06-2007, 07:01
well, IMO Stu shoulda started this vision thread b4 leaving to go on holiday, let us brew and discuss for 10 days, come back, analyse the results and set up a new league within 24hrs...

tbh i prefer having the discussion now than having the tourney start and then start arguing about it, like last time...

Anyway, i'm hoping that on saturday we'll have a new tourney... as far as i can tell its 50% between swiss and round robin, so i'm hoping we get 3 round robin groups this time, 6 teams each.

the only catch is that Riddy is in the 1st group who's been inactive 75 odd days, and i'm not sure how active nkicik is in the 3rd group. if we invite 3 tourney fillers and add them to the tourney, we could leave 1 space open in case a new member joins...

Anyway, WS could be on a good track, or it could just me more of the same in a different colour... time will tell...

tenpole
06-06-2007, 08:56
Stu has come back from holiday. Unless he extended it for more than two weeks which would explain his disappearance and lack of PM.

After every tournament there is a discussion about which format to use but the outcome is never used. A fixed round robin was decided but is completely ignored this time.

LordSnotball
06-06-2007, 12:25
really??? i thought it was the open round robin that everyone agreed to but no1 voted for...

ah well, now i know :)

tenpole
06-06-2007, 18:09
I think it was only Benny who wanted open round robin

Jet
06-06-2007, 19:11
Grouped TR open round robin is definitely my best idea.

As tenpole says, I seemed to be the only person pushing the idea a while ago but it seems I have some quiet allies...

LordSnotball
09-06-2007, 16:03
OK, the poll is due to end today i think... wonder when we'll be getting the new tourney!!!!

Autobot HQ
09-06-2007, 18:51
Well, it's been a week and I've returned to this thread as I promised, and it seems that, counting Yorkies mistake that the Swiss System wins out. However, the balance is very very finally split and we have a couple of votes for no system at all. So, with everyones approval of course, what i'd like to do is propose the following.

How about we actually have the league broken up with tournaments that use the Swiss System or knock-out system, whilst having a set round-robin between them, each comprimising of 6 teams. This would take 2 months to play through with a 10 day time limit on each game, leaving us the 3rd month for whatever tournament we can arrange between the top 4 of each group. This also leaves the third month free for those who didn't qualify to play games between themselves, so cover grudge matches and what-not. After every league 'Quarter' we'd handle promotions and demotions between the top/bottom 2 players of each group. Once/if we ever got to 24 players we'd start a new group or even change it to 8 man groups, whatever worked best.

This works to please fans of both system as well as openly show who is playin who next so you can organise these games, helpin to stay in that 10 day limit. For those of you I've confused, and you know who you are, it'd look like this:

Warseer League Quarter One (Set Round Robin - Deadlines: 11th, 21st, 31st of each month)
The Carcassone Joust (Knock out tourny, deadline of 1 month)
Warseer League Quarter Two (see quarter one)
The Badland Breakdown (Swiss system 8 players deadline of 1 month)
Warseer League Quarter Three (See Quarter one)
The Fumbbl Fallout (Swiss System doubles tournament)
Warseer League Quarter Four (See quarter one, points tally indicates winner of the Warseer Cup)
The Christmas Cup (Knock out tourny)

How would something like that sound to you guys? To me it combines everything you all want, but I don't want to go ahead and tell you all that is how it's gunna be unless you think it's what you want. So let me know.

I would of just made the choice but as it's so finely cut I believe this suits everyones need.

Whilst we wait for approval from you all, I've had to end the Orc bash-fest, and instead have set up two Set Round Robin tournaments, so everyone who hasn't been in one of these can get a feel for it. Enjoy the Warseer Warzone Tournament North & South.

Iscariot

tenpole
09-06-2007, 19:10
I got confused reading it so I skipped to Giants in the playground which I did understand. Cool.

I give up with arguing this and that.
Just point me at which team I have to beat and when by and I will do the rest.

Deng Ham
09-06-2007, 20:25
Shure whatever... I just want to play. So sett something up.

I think it's nice with something to break up a long league. Or rahter, don't have sutch a long league. So that one get time to finish a season and then have a cup

Lardidar
09-06-2007, 22:07
If I read and understood it properly then I think it will be a very nice system.

10 Days to get a game played is more than fair and it should lead to much faster paced BB action.

Cheers,

Deng Ham
09-06-2007, 23:08
Well done... The league is up and running. I'm glad to see that there is two divisions... How does it work with transfering teams from one to the other after the end of the season?

The only thing that conserns me, is that the PP grils somehow have managed to get placed in the North league. And with the rought competition they will get. I doubt that there will be mutch left of the team at seasons end. So if any of you where looking forward to having a good time with my girls. You better hope that you are early on our calender.

th0r
10-06-2007, 02:47
To me this sounds good. I think having the same system again and again would grow tedious and take some of the fun out of it. I'd still like to see some themed tournaments, but maybe we can do that in the 3rd month. I think the big thing right now is too make sure everyone plays there games in a timely matter so as to give the new system a good go instead of complaining right off the bat.

Also, as snotball has said, we need to get back into the fluff and start some grudges (as in fun, not actual hate lol).

Jet
14-06-2007, 21:46
I've forfeited skinny's game since it appears he may not be able to make it into the deadline. Now we need to know if Iscariot/Autobot-HQ is going to be able to play his first game within the deadline, 5 more days I believe.

I thought he would have been here in a flash to have another game against his favourite elves :D :rolleyes: .

th0r
14-06-2007, 21:53
*yawn*... would be nice to move this tournament along

LordSnotball
15-06-2007, 09:50
10 days is enough, another 5 to go... if ppl are organised they can start talking to their next opponent already, and the 2nd round might be finished even sooner

-Snottie