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View Full Version : A new take on Daemon Princes



Kerill
11-08-2005, 10:18
Related to my Belakor rant (that Daemon Princes should show more variety and some are truly powerful, at least equal to Greater Daemons) I have come up with the following modifications for Daemon Princes, Exalted Daemons:

Daemon Princes and Exalted Daemons start without wings and have the following costs:

Exalted Daemon- 185 points
Daemon Prince- 255 points

They may alter their stats as follows:

The model gains wings and can fly: 45 points

Increase/Decrease M by 1 – 20 points (can increase or decrease by up to 2 points, if the model has wings it cannot change the M stat.
Increase/Decrease Ws by 1- 20 points (can increase or decrease by 1 point)
Increase/Decrease S by 1- 20 points (can increase or decrease by 1 point)
Increase/Decrease W by 1- 50 points (can increase or decrease by 1 point) If a Daemon Prince increases its wounds in this way it becomes a large target but gains US equal to its wounds (US5 or 6 if it has the mark of nurgle). In addition the model uses a rare choice in addition to a lord and hero choice.
Increase/Decrease I by 1- 5 points (can increase or decrease by up to 2 points)
Increase/Decrease A by 1- 25 points (can increase or decrease by 1 point)

These costs have been taken from a comparison of daemons, magic items and other armies and have more or less been the same through every version of WH.

For those interested if you reduce greater daemons to the same value stats as Daemon Princes, and removing the cost of their gifts they cost the following:
Great Unclean one- 225 points
Lord of Change- 275 points (but has wings worth 45 points)
Bloodthirster- 270 points (but has wings worth 45 points)
Keeper of Secrets- 230 points.

This means that the Daemon Prince/Exalted Daemon are slightly overcosted (especially if you add in the magic level- Greater Daemons seem to pay about 140 points for magic level 4, but Daemon Princes would pay 200.

The maximum power Daemon Prince (with wings) would be:

M Ws BS S T W I A LD
6 9 0 6 6 5 10 6 9

And costs 445 points, 645 points if level 4 mage (so a fair bit more expensive than an equivalent Daemon (still generallyt weaker than any GD) and without gifts but the Prince is more flexible in its gift choice which balances this.).

Sample Daemons:

Illretch the Pustulent

Illretch often takes to battle accompanying plaguebearers and mortal followers where his radiance of disease and corruption helps them stay in the field to the dismay of their enemies.

M Ws BS S T W I A LD
4 7 0 5 6 4 6 6 9

Illretch has the mark of Nurgle, the daemonic gifts radiance of dark glory, Plague flail, Master of Mortals and diabolic splendour is a level 3 sorcerer and costs 510 points

Master of Whispers

This powerful Daemon Prince has a host of daemonic servitors at his command and is gifted by Tzeentch to hear the whispered thoughts of mortals everywhere in the Universe. This allows him to hatch fiendish plans and spread the evil of change through the warhammer world. When forced to come personally to the mortal world his anger lets him fight with a fury matched only by the servants of Khorne.

M Ws BS S T W I A LD
7 9 0 6 6 5 8 6 9

He has the mark of Tzeentch and the Daemonic gifts soul hunger, daemon blade, master of sorcery and power vortex. He costs 645 points

What do you all think? Do you think they are overpowered? Would you agree to your opponent using these rules? I think DP and ED as not particularly effective for the cost and hero slots. Although their statline cost, ability to cause terror and fly is only slightly overexpensive, their inability to take equipment options weakens them greatly. This would make them much more interesting, closer to the fluff and more useful in general.

Styles
11-08-2005, 10:49
I like it. Would be good to have some more variation.

Baindread
11-08-2005, 10:55
I think it is a quite good idea. If it weren't for the great flexibility Chaos already have it would be a great idea. I like it a lot.

Selsaral
11-08-2005, 13:49
The flying thing alone always bothered me. I always wished it was an option. Seems sort of silly for a Nurgle Daemon prince who wants to walk around with 4 move plaguebearers to HAVE to pay for wings that probably could never lift his fat body anyways.

x-esiv-4c
11-08-2005, 14:41
I think it's pretty cool, I like the fact that it gives the chaos player way more flexibility and more personality for the daemons.

Runt Nosher
11-08-2005, 19:43
I think it works balance wise for most Daemon Princes, other than Khornate ones IMHO. The 35 point mark for a Prince I think takes into the account the weakness of him Flying and it being easy to bait him. I made a pretty sick Khorne Prince with those rules and he is relatively inexpensive for being a ridiculous combat monster...

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 9 - 6 5 5 9 6 10

Diabolic Splendor
Soul Hunger
Spellbreaker

He is 475 points so it's not that bad but he doesn't fly so charge of 12 makes him much easier to control. He is US 5 and sure takes a rare, but in a Daemonic Legion this guy would be absolutely disgusting. 7 S6 rerollable attacks and being able to take on a flank... blade of ether would max him out at pretty high I just think this guy is a little unbalanced...

Kerill
12-08-2005, 04:33
Runt Nosher:

You are right in that Khorne Daemons will come out cheaper since the other DP and Exalteds overpay for magic levels. Still I think the wings are not a disadvantage with the mark- you can fly out of charge arcs etc. much easier and, importantly you can move so that several units will be in your charge arc andd you can choose 1 whereas the M6 prince will be limited in this way.

The reason I think the Khorne mark is cheaper by 5 points than the lord is that the immunity to psychology from frenzy is no benefit to them since they already have it for free- hence its 5 points cheaper.

Stat wise these Daemon Princes will always be weaker than the GD but daemonic blade and soul hunger puts them on par I reackon, they just die easier and have lower US.

Markconz
14-08-2005, 02:23
I agree it would be nice not to have to take wings...