PDA

View Full Version : What direction is the new Tyranid background being moved in?



Nazguire
09-04-2005, 01:32
As title.

Is the background going to be moved more towards the intelligent predator that adapts to everything it encounters (e.g. Zoanthroapes for Eldar, Tyrant Guard for Adeptus Astartes) with stories depicting Imperial Guard/SM/CSM/whateva fighting the nids only to have a previously effective tactic thrown in their faces?
Or is it going to be more down the tedious boring all consuming space predator with no real intellect other than feed feed FEED! ?

Thoughts about what it may be moved towards and what you want it to be moved towards

Strikerkc
09-04-2005, 02:03
I certainly hope it's more like the evolving intelegent predator. The "Consume for the sake of it" deal is less than compeling.

Yog Sogoth
09-04-2005, 03:17
As far as I can tell the third edition fluff changed the Tyranids drastically. Gave them much less character and made them more animalistic. Less like bio-engineered warriors and more like super animals. I prefer the second edition fluff.

The new models seem to be revisiting the second edition style, perhaps the fluff will follow.

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-04-2005, 03:42
But they are super-animals, they don't have a purpose except to kill, then absorb.

Marsekay
09-04-2005, 04:20
Imagine the Tyranids evolving battlecries based off human interaction, that would confuse the IG amazingly.

Highly efficient biological killing machines, with all the vocal ability of a parrot, running at the IG lines shouting
"HELLO!"

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-04-2005, 04:25
LOL! Or "GOOD MORNING! HOW ARE YOU TODAY!"

Maybe they'll just copy other armies' battlecries, it would be fun watching a horde of gaunts screaming "REPENT FOR TOMMOROW YOU DIE!"

gLOBS
09-04-2005, 04:31
Wow if I were in that situation that would mess with me alot more than hisses.

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-04-2005, 04:38
Maybe a new kind of tyranid that cries out the enemy's warcry to confuse them, then run in fast and kick their asses.

Tyranid: REPENT FOR TOMMOROW YOU DIE!
Dark Angel: That's MY LINE!! Oh crap *splat*

Marsekay
09-04-2005, 05:21
I guess it would be a bit like predator.

"Want some...candy...Mr?"

*CHOP*

Marsekay
09-04-2005, 05:26
Or even evolve War songs after that.

Picture the scene, an IG platoon is dug in in a ruined fortress atop a hill firing down on an oncoming Nid horde.
The IG are awaiting reinforcements.


IG trooper.
"Sir i hear singing from behind our lines!"

Cue dreadfull parrot style singing

IG captain.
"AHHHH at last the 214th have bothered to arrive! just keep going lads! Reinforcements will be here very shortly!"

The singing nids therefore enter the rear of the IG lines, with the IG facing the wtrong direction concentrating on the oncoming horde. hence they die , Fast.

Nazguire
09-04-2005, 05:51
As far as I can tell the third edition fluff changed the Tyranids drastically. Gave them much less character and made them more animalistic. Less like bio-engineered warriors and more like super animals. I prefer the second edition fluff.

The new models seem to be revisiting the second edition style, perhaps the fluff will follow.

Indeed, reading the 3rd Edition told me little other than they were a bunch of bugs that wanted to star in Aliens but didn't quite make it. I've always pictured them or it even, as a giant malign predator that will actually think in order to defeat the enemy by adapting to their prey with wierd and wonderful genetic deviations...but currently the only deviation I see is the oh so wonderous..yawn..spikes and the ol' Soviet tactic of swamp the enemy until he dies.

twisted_mentat
09-04-2005, 05:59
Inquisition Records Zeta-Vermillion-99901

Disciption : Recording from Krieg Storm Trooper Squad Alfa

Transcript

*Crackle* Where are they?!
Sir, i don't know.
Keep that Flamer ready.
Sir....I hear something.

*Distant" Good Morning...

What the Bloody Hell was that?
Listen, again!"

*closer* Would you like some Tea, Mr Quibbles?

What the hell is going on out there!
Contact! Bearing 7-4-7!
Fire at anything with claws!
by the Golden Throne there they are!

Isn't it a nice day for a walk in the park?

Fire Fire Fire!
*sound of hellguns and flamers being fired"

Would you like some Jelly Babies?

Arrrgh! they're overrunning our...aaaah my leg!!!!! Emperor Save...*squwak*

Have a pleasent night..

*Static*

End of Line

gLOBS
09-04-2005, 06:06
I think it would be great for instance if the tyranids evolved a critter that could receive and emmit radio(or vox, or whatever) and transmit out signals. It would be like a parrot and listen in and then randomly give out perfectly mimicked orders at the wrong times and confuse the vox operators and sgts into committing wrong orders.

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-04-2005, 06:15
Or even evolve War songs after that.

Maybe they'll sing Seven Nation Army by the White Stripes, that would be so cool.

Guardsman: Listen, what's that?

Tyranid: I'm gonna fight 'em off, a seven nation army couldn't hold me back.

Commander: Sounds like musi... CRAPSTICKS! *splat*

Khaine's Messenger
09-04-2005, 08:03
I'd be more scared if a Lictor was about to waste a Catachan and said...."Would you like some candy?" [/Predator 2]

Still, there's been a general trend to make Tyranids more stupid, less organized, and generally less Illuminatus in their maneuverings. The deconstruction of the idea of the workability of an over-arching hivemind, eg, that showed up around the 3rd edition release. I preferred their portrayal in, iirc it was titled, "Hive Fleet Horror" in Dark Imperium, as uncaring harvesters who, as far as the one hive fleet and the psyker probing it knew, expected to sweep through all galaxies eventually, sometimes even doubling back (which is why I like Ancient Hive Fleet theories, most of which don't really work due to the "new and improved" timeline we have with the War in Heaven). My favorite Tyranid "quote"....SURVIVE! AND SURVIVE FOREVER! (from the story mentioned above). I'm not really familiar with 2nd edition nids much (read their 2nd ed codex through once, I think, and there wasn't really much I think that contradicted what I know), though, so I'm afraid I don't know what some of you are talking about when you say they lost some of their "character."

Thankfully Genestealer Cults don't look like they're going anywhere. :)

Yog Sogoth
09-04-2005, 08:14
Thankfully Genestealer Cults don't look like they're going anywhere. :)

Do you mean, there not going anywhere as in:

There good and here to stay (which there not, there out of the new codex.)

Or

They suck and there not going anywhere?

Which reminds me...what happend to the cult? Third edition wiped them off the face of the earth, which is a damn shame.

Black Ambience
09-04-2005, 09:12
Indeed, reading the 3rd Edition told me little other than they were a bunch of bugs that wanted to star in Aliens but didn't quite make it. I've always pictured them or it even, as a giant malign predator that will actually think in order to defeat the enemy by adapting to their prey with wierd and wonderful genetic deviations...but currently the only deviation I see is the oh so wonderous..yawn..spikes and the ol' Soviet tactic of swamp the enemy until he dies.

But then you must remember that the V3 Codex had a ridiculously small amount of fluff in it. I'll always think of that book as "wow look at us! We've created a new model for absolutely everything and you can stick Biomorphs where ever you want!!!111oneoneone". The Tyranid fluff in the Codex never had a chance to go anywhere.

However, the Adeptus Biologis (Sherman Bishop) articles about the Tyranids really captured the "engineered alien technology" feel that the Tyranids can have, and was far superior to anything GW written.

With the advent of the larger Codices, I expect the V4 Codex to have a lot more room for fluff - just look at the contrast between the V3 and V4 Chaos books!

Rich
09-04-2005, 10:36
As title.

Is the background going to be moved more towards the intelligent predator that adapts to everything it encounters (e.g. Zoanthroapes for Eldar, Tyrant Guard for Adeptus Astartes) with stories depicting Imperial Guard/SM/CSM/whateva fighting the nids only to have a previously effective tactic thrown in their faces?
Or is it going to be more down the tedious boring all consuming space predator with no real intellect other than feed feed FEED! ?

Thoughts about what it may be moved towards and what you want it to be moved towards

I like the idea of the intelligent predator also, and certainly some of the fluff (re. "Warriors of Ultramar") has them reacting to previous tactics and attempting to out-wit their enemies. I would imagine that this list will focus on Hive Fleet Leviathan, and will flesh out the background for that particular force (which is I believe currently fighting Orks whilst avoiding necrons).

Black Ambience
09-04-2005, 13:07
(which is I believe currently fighting Orks whilst avoiding necrons).

Noo, don't say that! You'll spark off a thousand Dyson Sphere threads! :p

The Inedible
09-04-2005, 20:28
Yeah I'd love to see more adaptability in the 'nids in fluff and on the table. The idea of without number gaunts is nice though they give up VP's something like the necron's fade out rules would work better IMHO. You could keep regenerating guants until the enemy kills so many or something.

I agree that V3 really did make the 'nids more generic. All they do know is run around and eat, they've lost all malign purpose or deeper intelligence. I get the impression that in the past the 'nids were a lot more sneaky, rather than just charging head on they found ways to exploit their enemies' weaknesses through evolution.

astrocortex
09-04-2005, 21:22
I think it would be great for instance if the tyranids evolved a critter that could receive and emmit radio(or vox, or whatever) and transmit out signals. It would be like a parrot and listen in and then randomly give out perfectly mimicked orders at the wrong times and confuse the vox operators and sgts into committing wrong orders.

Although not quite the same, Dan Abnett touched upon this in Titan Book 2, with the 'nids overwhelming the mind impulse links of a titan then using it to broadcast fake vox signals.

I think your sort of evolution would be something that would be mutated into a synapse creature or as a new ability for the Zoanthropes.

Inquisitor Engel
09-04-2005, 21:48
However, the Adeptus Biologis (Sherman Bishop) articles about the Tyranids really captured the "engineered alien technology" feel that the Tyranids can have, and was far superior to anything GW written.
Yep, and contrary to GW's usual policy of not having anything published anywhere (including online) not being legitimate for being published, it did.

That usual policy is what's preventing me from putting any of my Eldar work on Portent. :(

The background for the new Nid Codex seems pretty dark, but I don't think it has the number of implications it could have. If you ask me, the Nids are far and away the greatest threat to the Galaxy.

Chaos with the exception of daemons, has a potentially finate number of mortal followers, and without followers, daemons can't manifest. The Necrons are absolutely finite, they don't build NEW Warriors, just create new ones, the Eldar are dying, the Tau could be easily wiped out with a crusade the size of Macharius old crusade and the Orks are too disorganized to pose a threat.

Nids on the other hand RECYCLE THEIR DEAD and each minor victory can increase their force. The only limitation to the number of Nids is the amount of organic matter in the galaxy.

Nazguire
10-04-2005, 04:19
Yep, and contrary to GW's usual policy of not having anything published anywhere (including online) not being legitimate for being published, it did.

That usual policy is what's preventing me from putting any of my Eldar work on Portent. :(

The background for the new Nid Codex seems pretty dark, but I don't think it has the number of implications it could have. If you ask me, the Nids are far and away the greatest threat to the Galaxy.

Chaos with the exception of daemons, has a potentially finate number of mortal followers, and without followers, daemons can't manifest. The Necrons are absolutely finite, they don't build NEW Warriors, just create new ones, the Eldar are dying, the Tau could be easily wiped out with a crusade the size of Macharius old crusade and the Orks are too disorganized to pose a threat.

Nids on the other hand RECYCLE THEIR DEAD and each minor victory can increase their force. The only limitation to the number of Nids is the amount of organic matter in the galaxy.

The Necrons dont' build new Warriors...yet they create new ones...?
:confused: ;) lol

It seems to me that the Tyranids are the more predictable to beat. I don't know too much about their space cabilities but if they are just large bugs that are very sleepy and just drift through space, then wouldn't a large space fleet of the Imperium be the key to success?

Marsekay
10-04-2005, 06:13
Although not quite the same, Dan Abnett touched upon this in Titan Book 2, with the 'nids overwhelming the mind impulse links of a titan then using it to broadcast fake vox signals.

I think your sort of evolution would be something that would be mutated into a synapse creature or as a new ability for the Zoanthropes.

Imagine an ability, that a Certain Tyranid may take, that when you "shoot" your opponents HQ or maybe any other unit,, and the opponent rolls under his leadership, the tyranid player then gets control of any unit within 6" due to the tyranids giving "fake" commands.

Maybe the unit they want to move also has to roll under leadership, because i am sure some units wouldnt be fooled that easily???

An expensive Unit/Upgrade methinks...

Inquisitor Engel
10-04-2005, 06:41
The Necrons dont' build new Warriors...yet they create new ones...?
Yeah... They rebuild damaged ones, but once something is beyond repair, that's it. If you destroy a Tomb World, there's TONS of Necrons that will never, ever fight again.

Tyranids just pump new ones out of the Norn Queens and ships. :p

Wraith
10-04-2005, 10:06
Engel is right in my opinion -- Necrons do not make new necrons to replace battle losses.

Necrons will repair those other Necrons which can be salavaged BUT when a necron gets 'vaped' or something it's gone short of ressurection orb (instant killed for example).

HOWEVER Necrons are recruiting all the time -- Pariah cyborgs are the C'tan's new ideal for the galaxy and have the Necrons harvesting and converting as many as they can. Eventually almost all the Necrons will be destroyed but the ranks of Pariah cyborgs will continue to grow thanks to reproductive efforts of humanity.

Black Ambience
10-04-2005, 11:15
And in addition to the ever-growing numbers of Pariahs, we have only seen up to the second stage of the Necron Revival. There could be all sorts of horrors laying formant beneath our very feet...

It would be interesting to see how a Pariah-based Necron force would work (in the future of course), because a lot of Necron technology seems to revolve around the Necrons being, well, Necron (teleportation and so on).

Rich
10-04-2005, 11:24
And in addition to the ever-growing numbers of Pariahs, we have only seen up to the second stage of the Necron Revival. There could be all sorts of horrors laying formant beneath our very feet...

I read a quote that the necron technology seen to date is only that which the Necrons see useful for harvesting - they have yet to deploy their actual military hardware (I'm assuming that by this they mean titans, superheavies and so forth).

Khaine's Messenger
11-04-2005, 03:25
There good and here to stay (which there not, there out of the new codex.)

Or

They suck and there not going anywhere?

Bah, that's just a false dilemma. Unless they suffer a Squating, they exist in the background and GW will not, and probably has no will to, change this fact (indeed, GSC feature prominently in many short stories and book plots). Whether or not they exist in the rules is really none of my concern, as long as GW doesn't forget to give them their due in terms of background. I'd like an official AdMech list, too, but it's gonna be a while....


Which reminds me...what happend to the cult? Third edition wiped them off the face of the earth, which is a damn shame.

:rolleyes: Their rules have disappeared, yes (beyond a few CJ articles), but just because they don't have rules, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Sephiroth
11-04-2005, 05:03
Yeah... They rebuild damaged ones, but once something is beyond repair, that's it.

Ah, but is there any evidence to indicate that is so? The background hints at the opposite. ;)

Typheron
11-04-2005, 09:56
Well theres a new model thats some sort of genestealer called a brood lord which looks like some sort of big genestealer:

http://img224.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img224&image=broodlord29xc.jpg

so either there giving nids sargets of some kind or it could be one of the possable forces in the codex is some sort of Genestealer strong force.

zealousheretic
11-04-2005, 14:30
The broodlord is intended to let you field a stealer-themed army list.

It's also possibly intended as something of a "midrange" HQ choice, tougher than Warriors but cheaper than a Tyrant.

Inquisitor Samos
11-04-2005, 16:24
It seems to me that the Tyranids are the more predictable to beat. I don't know too much about their space cabilities but if they are just large bugs that are very sleepy and just drift through space, then wouldn't a large space fleet of the Imperium be the key to success?

:eek: .......ah, no, they are not very sleepy, and they do not just drift through space!

Their fleets are composed of some fairly nasty bioship types, some large and tough, others smaller and very fast. Although their larger ships are slow compared to some fleets, they tend to advance implacably, and are also supported by escorts and clouds of attack organisms that are very very numerous! Also, like their surface forces, the fleets tend to continually improve and evolve, new types and new capabilities emerging to deal with new threats...... what worked in the last battle may be next to useless the next time. They are sheer nightmares at close range, and tend to favor horde attacks by bio-ordnance, and close range fire, ramming, and boarding actions where they overwhelm their victims with troops (the same ones that are seen in surface actions).

Back when the Tyranids attacked the Ultramarines' homeworld of Macragge, the Ultramarines' fleet elements just barely managed to fend off the space assault with the help of a large battlefleet from the naval base at Bakka, both being badly mauled in the process. And this was before the Tyranids had much experience facing Imperial fleets, and thus had not had the chance to evolve new capabilities..........