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scarvet
06-06-2007, 00:30
Of course that is questionable, but what do you think?

Although a lot of people talk about how bad WoW(World of warcraft) addict is, but that is just what playing MMORPG is like: this is your second life if you want to do better. Like the internet, you get to communicant and know people; of course, you can help them in the game, or even RL if them share their problem with you.

CCG on another hand, most of them is just buy more and try to smash your opponent with rares. But what about CCG like balance rares(like you need more mana/gold/points/resource)? or like Pirate? It is a CCG, but it is also a table top game. However, if you have a better collection, you still have better chance of winning.

For tabletop gaming, you still have to spend time and money(even if you make you own, what about material?) just like MMO and CCG.

So, does any of them "better" than others? or any one of them is worst?

Corax
06-06-2007, 07:57
I can only speak in terms of CCGs and wargames, as MMORPGs have never really been my thing. Generally, I would say that they both have advantages and disadvantages.

The great thing about CCG's is that not creative skill is required (no painting, modelling, etc.) and you can get your deck ready and go out and play without lugging boxes of models and dice and books, etc. around with you. Its far less demanding in terms of skills than wargames. The downside, as you have noted, is that you are constantly spending money to keep up as new sets are released. Although not all games are completely rare driven (forcing you to buy cards by the box), most evolve constantly, meaning that you have to have at least some of the new cards to stay competitive. Constant expenditure is part and parcel of the hobby.

OTOH, while there are significant initial set-up costs with wargaming, once you have an army, there is not much you need to spend, except the occassional rules update or new unit to supliment what you already have. The downside is that a lot more time and effort is required to get set up so that you can play, and there are a lot of things to have to carry around to play, whereas a deck of cards fits in your pocket.

I've played a lot of both types over the years and they have their pros and cons. I've mostly gotten fed up with pouring endless sums of money into CCGs and stuck to 40k. I still dabble in my favourite CCG (Legend of the Five Rings), but I would not start playing another one (mind you, I said that after Magic in 1995). I like the creative aspect of wargaming - when you buy a model for your army, you have to spend time building and painting it and there is an achievement involved, even before you use it in a game. Therefore, the enjoyment is extended over a much longer period of time. With a CCG card, you just get it and put it in your deck - this is less involving and less satisfying overall (IMO). In my view, CCG's have the advantage of convenience, but lack the depth and variety of wargames. Finally, one should also not discount the all important cost factor, which favours wargames great longevity.

Hellebore
06-06-2007, 08:18
You aren't really going to get a good sample set on a wargaming website, but I prefer wargames.

I really enjoy converting and building my own armies, writing about them and themeing them to my imaginings.

You get nice art work with a CCG, but that's it. MMOs give you absolutely no tactile possessable object, unlike WGs and CCGs.

I vote wargames ... not really surpring...

Hellebore

starlight
06-06-2007, 08:21
Neither better nor worse, just different.

Personally I'm a fan of TTWG and Video Games, but haven't spent much time on MMOs.

It all comes down to what you like to do with your time and money.:D

Bombot
06-06-2007, 08:45
I've gotten better games out of CCGs than I ever have out of wargaming. But having to keep spending money to keep up gets old after so many years and putting together your army for a wargame is fun.

hairyman
06-06-2007, 10:05
Pen and paper rpg's beat everything else hands down, in my world anyway. Board games and toy soldiers are fun, online gaming is also a lot of fun, but none of them come near the depth and hours you can put into a proper rpg.

snurl
06-06-2007, 10:07
Tabletop mini games are great. I always used minis with RPG's for combat too, so I count the two in the same category.

hairyman
06-06-2007, 10:13
Really? Thats wierd. I've always viewed war gaming as closer to a good board game than it is to an RPG. Never wanted to use mini's in an RPG though.

Brother Loki
06-06-2007, 10:23
Not better, just different. All have their pro's and cons:

Wargames - need lots of space to play and lots of heavy kit, but have cool models and more of a 'hooby' with painting and modelling.
CCGs - easy to carry a deck with you and get pick up games, usually quick to play (except B5 or VtES ;)) but you need to spend a lot of money to be competitive.
MMORGs - can play with people all over the world, pretty graphics and stuff, but a massive time commitment.
RPGs - needs a group, often a regular weekly comitment.

I enjoy all of them in different ways.

Pete

Adept
06-06-2007, 11:10
I've always preferred Tabletop Miniatures games. I've never really liked pen-and-paper RPGs. I can appreciate that some guys do, and I also like RPGs, but I prefer to use the 360 for my RPG fix.

snurl
06-06-2007, 11:31
Really? Thats wierd. I've always viewed war gaming as closer to a good board game than it is to an RPG. Never wanted to use mini's in an RPG though.

They are real handy for keeping track of who is where and in the way/range of whom during RPG combat. You don't need a lot of figures, unless you run into a lot of monsters/bandits/leprechauns/etc.

Hellebore
06-06-2007, 11:32
RPGs are similar to MMOs though in that there is no tangible product - it's all virtual. You can use a miniature to represent you, but it isn't necessary.

WGs though encourage a culture of miniatures. They don't strictly need them either, but the game is first and foremost about collecting the miniatures.


I really enjoy RPGs for their ability to tell a story, and go into depth about a world, but I love the conversion and construction of a TTWG.

Hellebore

snurl
06-06-2007, 11:37
We use my homebrewed RPG system with the combat system lifted from the Mordheim rules. It makes for some quick and brutal fights, along with all of the roleplay the party wants to do.

Hellebore
06-06-2007, 11:41
Have you tried the WFRP V2 rules? I find them quite fun and brutal (especially when I'm the GM :D).

Hellebore

Wolf Scout Ewan
06-06-2007, 12:04
Speaking as someone who has tried quite a few MMO's I can say they are some of the best entertainment around.

Getting together with a few m8's to take on huge and nasty monsters gives me a huge buzz.

I play more MMO than I do hobby stuff nowadays. Though MMO's have helped me with social anxiety and depression. Now instead of hiding at home I socialise with others on the net.

Wez
06-06-2007, 22:15
I don't know what the following mean/stand for:

MMORPG
MMO
CCG
WFRP
TTWG

Do I win or lose?

Damien 1427
06-06-2007, 22:23
CCGs are a money-sink. Pure and simple. Card games that are released as complete, pre-made decks (Like that Penny Arcade game with Tycho and Gabe decks) are a bit better in my eyes, but CCGs are the devil incarnate.

MMORPGs compared to tabletop wargames? Ngggh. Different beasts entirely.

Arkzein
06-06-2007, 23:48
Dabbled in them all but miniature gaming is the only thing that has stayed the course, so of naturally I'm biased.

MMOs have a stigma attached that they leave you with "nothing". (although one could argue friends made with the social aspect, or the rise of the fledgling virtual property market is something tangible) but I've always found this rather an odd statement, as sport, hiking,... hell, even sitting watching the TV, leave the same.

They give entertainment, and though the actual monetary cost is low they, generally, cost time. A lot of time. Myself I've not really played one much since early 2002 (dabbled casually in a few though) but generally find I get more enjoyment doing other things. (I just don't have time enough to devote to games and the heavy social aspect they inevitably induce). Also the issue of how one views online "friendships", myself I can only think of people I've met as true friends and don't really go for chatting much to folks online. (at least socially, discussion and debates etc. fine though ;))

Miniature gaming. Can take both a lot of time *and* money, but doesn't require either. (Big difference from a simple second hand ebay army and a lovingly converted, bits ordered, display quality army). Personally I've found it to have the greatest social aspect of all of them, and possibly the most fulfilling as you have something to show for your trouble at the end of the day.

CCGs (note I never did touch Magic) can cost a lot of money as well, but also not so much (if just playing with a few friends for fun, especially the lesser known games). Can be fabulous for strategy, and give some great gameplay which those who haven't given it a go can sometimes scoff at... there's something about gambling and the turn of a card as well that has it;s own appeal moreso than the roll of the dice. (for me anyway).

RPGs. Brilliant for folks who love the fluff and telling and story rather than competition. Socially tends to be a very closed group though, get in with your regular group and keep the same company/friends for years is common (at least in my experience). Probably the cheapest of all the options, though there's always the beer and pizza to think of! *laughs*


Anyway my thoughts come down one thing. The "best" is whatever one enjoys most. For me MMORPGs are too time consuming, RPGs I'm uncomfortable with without a group I know well (Though love them when I have, a lot of in jokes with myself and some old mates, mention the word "pancake".....), CCGs just feel like I'm spending too much money for something of little substance. Miniatures though, no qualms. Expensive, time consuming, but I can look at the end product and be content with that.

Ah, felt good to have a good old ramble again. ;)

Corax
07-06-2007, 11:05
I don't know what the following mean/stand for:

Fear not, I shall assist.

MMORPG - Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game
MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online - Short for MMORPG
CCG - Collectable Card Game
WFRP - Warhammer Fantasy RolePlaying
TTWG - Table Top War Game

PS: The amount of HTML coding needed for this made me :cries:

Frodo34x
07-06-2007, 16:42
I've gotten better games out of CCGs than I ever have out of wargaming. But having to keep spending money to keep up gets old after so many years and putting together your army for a wargame is fun.
I feel more or less exactly the same.

sanctusmortis
07-06-2007, 20:45
I would say that TTRPG is a more diverse and fun field than the "set missions" play of an MMO. CCGs are, well, card games, to be honest, and incomparable to the other two as they're more in line with board games like Catan.

And LARP is even more fun...

Kohhna
07-06-2007, 23:18
They are all inferior to NPGs (Nude Party games).

Personally i'm playing a lot of Magic these days and having a lot more fun that I did all the years I played Warhammer and 40K, but that's not to denigrate either its just that Magic suits my particular needs much more at the moment.