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Kahadras
06-06-2007, 11:01
Recently I have been invited to start playing Warhammer again by a couple of mates. After casting round for a new army I decided to go back to one that I haven't visited for years, Undead.

Flipping through the VC book I decided to run with a pretty standard Von Carstein list. The problem came when I found out who I'd be playing against. I've fought against most armies that are currently represented in Warhammer but I've never faced off against Ogres. This is slightly worrying as the club that I've been invited to has no less than three Ogre players (as well as an O&G, Dwarf and Empire player).

Basicaly I'd like some advise on tactics and army composition. At the present moment I've got a unit of skeletons, a necromancer and Manfred von Carstein (who I'm going to use for my army general). The original plan for the army was to create a solid base of skeletons (three or four 20 man units), hide a necromancer or two in them along with a Wight Lord, then have a fast element consisting of Dire Wolves, Vampire bats and my Vampire leading a unit of Black knights.

I've not had chance to look thorough the Ogre Kingdoms armies book yet but I've heard quite a bit of doom saying amoung other people over my chances of being able to reliably beat them.

Kahadras

The Thnikkaman
06-06-2007, 11:05
I've started playing Ogres recently and a mate of mine plays blood dragon VC.

One thing ogres really cant handle is ethereal creatures. More specifically, banshees and spirit hosts.

banshees are great against ogres because of their mediocre leadership, as well as the fact that banshees are a lot more manoeverable.

Spirit hosts are downright dangerous to ogre kingdoms because they lack the static rank bonus to wear them down. Very few things in the ogre kingdoms list are magical attacks - the big threats to them are tyrants with magic weapons, butchers with magic spells and bound items and the arctic death monkeys (yhetees with magical attacks).

Spirit hosts can quite easily tie up a unit of ogres and win with their large number of attacks and immunity to mundane weapons.

Also, ghouls are pretty good against ogres too. Their poisoned attacks are excellent against the tough but not well armoured ogres.

Kahadras
06-06-2007, 16:06
So etherial is good. I'll probably add a Banshee or two into the army to provide some annoyance. My main worry comes from the units of bulls that are going to hit my lines. A spirit host is OK but you are limited to one unit of them and they can't be everywhere at once.

Kahadras

Baron Von Rotten
07-06-2007, 02:49
Ethereal is Good. But Magic is also Good. Raise units of skellies, and angle them to get those bulls moving in all sorts of crazy-ass directions. Then flank them with your Rank and file troops. This is especially effective when used in conjuction with wights.

Necromancy is the best supportive magic that there is. Invocation, Hellish Vigor and the Dance are awesome.

BVR

Billpete002
07-06-2007, 07:35
I've also found that terror causing units work really well against ogres. I had 1 black coach and 1 screaming helm. I put these on the flanks and moved them froward with the rest of the line

his flanks broke because of terror tests, and I enveloped him because he was locked in combat with my hordes of zombies and skellies. so my knights and coach hit them on the flanks of the ogres that were in combat.

I think the game ended by his turn 3 (he went second).

Gobbas
07-06-2007, 11:47
Terror tests against an ogre army? Ogres causes fear and as such terror only counts as fear against them, so no terror tests other than against gnoblars.

eleveninches
07-06-2007, 12:32
I am not a fan of manfred. I would much prefer to spend the points on a customised vampire count/lord than be stuck with a guy who is more expensive than a bloodthirster.

I used a HE army a week or 2 ago, and completely owned the enemy army. Vauls unmasking stripped manfred of his ward save and free spell, and then made him miscast on any double as well. He only just made it into combat, and ended up being the last unit left on the battlefield, then getting killed by a few bolt-thrower shots into him. He is not worth it for 650 points.

Instead, i would go for a vampire count or master necromancer and some more undead units.

I dread facing ogres with my VC army, as one of their key tactics (causing fear) is useless against the ogres

Gobbas
07-06-2007, 12:38
Black knights, crused book and banner of the barrows could be quite useful.

Dead Man Walking
08-06-2007, 04:17
I have found that a good tactic against Ogres is to camp a flank. Ogre players tend to have to spread thier entire army across the leangth of thier table edge and if you camp on one side of the table and use a unit of flyers or fast cav to march block the ones on the other side of the table those units will -never- see combat and you only have to win on your end of the table.

Gobbas
08-06-2007, 04:30
Well if a decent player sees that the opponent concentrates on one flank, he will not spread out as much, Downside with being in one flank though, is that you most certainly will get flanked, which is devestating for most armies, VC included.

xenotaph
08-06-2007, 04:30
I bet that gaze of nagash would work wonders against the ogres. Rod of flaming death may be good as well (panic tests are your friend when fighting ogres).

Gobbas
08-06-2007, 05:07
Panic tests are good, but remember that you need to do a lot of wounds to make it happen. most units are 4 + a character, that means 6 wounds minimum for a panic test from shooting. And most Ogre armies have a few butchers in them, so magic defence is atleast decent.

Scythe
08-06-2007, 11:46
But then, the rod of flaming death causes an auto panic test if it does at least 1 wound. ;)

Still not a game winning item tough...

Rabban
08-06-2007, 12:35
But then, the rod of flaming death causes an auto panic test if it does at least 1 wound. ;)


No, it needs to cause at least one casualty, not wound. This makes it less useful against ogres unless you have already wounded one of them.

Baron Von Rotten
09-06-2007, 03:52
I have found that a good tactic against Ogres is to camp a flank. Ogre players tend to have to spread thier entire army across the leangth of thier table edge and if you camp on one side of the table and use a unit of flyers or fast cav to march block the ones on the other side of the table those units will -never- see combat and you only have to win on your end of the table.

This seems like a weak-ass "Dwarf" Tactic. Tsk-Tsk.
I think Gav Thorpe called it "Bear Mountain" or whatever.
This is not how undead was meant to be played.....
I know that you can be more creative with your strategy and tactics than this!

BVR

Scythe
10-06-2007, 09:41
No, it needs to cause at least one casualty, not wound. This makes it less useful against ogres unless you have already wounded one of them.

Ahh, of course. My undead knowledge is getting rusty...:p