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Ymir
06-06-2007, 22:05
I'm playing the Tomb Kings, and will be facing an orc army on Sunday; 2000 points. The thing is, I'm pretty new at this, and the only time I've met orcs before, I got crushed. So I was looking for some general tips. What are Tomb Kings advantages/weaknesses against orcs? What units should I field? And so on. (Note; the opponent plays a pure orc army. No goblins and such).

Things I'm thinking of is:
- The Orcs have high toughness. My archers won't do much damage at all against them. Maybe I should skip archers altogether, and prioritize large blocks of skeletons as core; outnumbering for fear and all that.

For other core, I was thinking of fielding one or two tomb swarm bases, and a unit of eight skeleton heavy cavalry with a tomb prince in chariot in the middle.

As specials go; 19 tomb guards w. a tomb prince or a liche priest, 3 chariots. But maybe ushabti would be a good idea, again considering the orchs high toughness?

As general strategy go, I'm thinking of doing some kind of gunline with a Screaming Skull Catapult and a Casket of Souls; and generally a magic heavy-list, with a liche high priest and two liche priest, only one tomb prince. How strong are orc magic? If I field the casket, maybe three priest are a total waste of points?

The other option I've been considering are more heavy on the hard-hitting specials; ushabti, tomb guard, more tomb princes, again with one or two large blocks of ordinary skeleton warriors as core. But then I can hardly afford the casket; It seems I have to choose between gunline or heavy support-approach.

What do you guys think?

/Ymir

sephiroth87
06-06-2007, 22:32
I would load up on archers, like to the tune of 40. I would take 2 tomb scorpions, a unit of tomb guard, the casket of souls, 2 skull catapults, and as much magic as I could cram in. For even better results, make a big unit of 20 man skeleton archers and have your priests make them shoot in the magic phase. You'll kill more with them than with the catapults, but the catapults make orcs panic left and right. It's up to you on which units you want to shoot in the magic phase. Combined with everything else, the orc player really shouldn't have much left.

For even more fun, take queen khalida (I think that's her name, but we always call her queen latifah). She's hella expensive, but the poision on the archers will help you wipe out whole orc blocks at a time.

Orc magic is really good, but many orc players disregard it because it's dangerous. I personally love it and have stomped many an army with the mighty Foot of Gork.

Rövhalt
06-06-2007, 22:43
I say atleast one unit of 25 fully tooled up warriors with an icon bearer with the banner of undying legion. This unit has proved itself too me many a time in battle and rarely disapointed me. It stood against a unit of 18 hammerers with a fully cheesed out dwarf lord on shield for three turns before finally making the little stunties flee.
So go with what you are thinking. Big units backed up by hard hitting beast like Ushabti.

And if you know you are facing a giant then swarms are your friend.

Cragspyder
06-06-2007, 23:08
I'm playing the Tomb Kings, and will be facing an orc army on Sunday; 2000 points. The thing is, I'm pretty new at this, and the only time I've met orcs before, I got crushed. So I was looking for some general tips. What are Tomb Kings advantages/weaknesses against orcs? What units should I field? And so on. (Note; the opponent plays a pure orc army. No goblins and such).

Things I'm thinking of is:
- The Orcs have high toughness. My archers won't do much damage at all against them. Maybe I should skip archers altogether, and prioritize large blocks of skeletons as core; outnumbering for fear and all that.

For other core, I was thinking of fielding one or two tomb swarm bases, and a unit of eight skeleton heavy cavalry with a tomb prince in chariot in the middle.

As specials go; 19 tomb guards w. a tomb prince or a liche priest, 3 chariots. But maybe ushabti would be a good idea, again considering the orchs high toughness?


A few things to consider:

Archers are likely a waste, as you said, especially since you plan to bring Screaming Skulls and the Casket.

However, your intended Horseman unit is illegal; you cannot have a tomb prince on a chariot accompany any unit except a unit of chariots.

If you really want to bring Heavy Horsemen, I really suggest you either go all out with 15 in 3 ranks of 5 with full command and buy a magic banner for them, or bring em down to 5 with no command and use them to negate ranks on things. Or do what many TK players have suggested and don't field em at all.

A Tomb Prince in a three chariot unit is a good hammer unit. However, Ushabti may be a waste as Orcs really do not have great armour saves, though the extra strength may help vs. the Orc Toughness.

The Orcs I play always use 2 of their 35 point Bolt Throwers so I would bring a Scorpion or some Carrion to at least deal with them or a potential Doom Diver.

Boar Boyz can be nasty, especially if they survive through the WAAAGH! call, but your Skeleton Blocks should be able to hold out until a Hammer arrives.

An almost exclusive Orc force will probably consist of lots of big blocks of Boyz, Big 'Uns and Black Orcs, supported by Boar Boyz and maybe Arrer Boyz.
From some of the ideas you mentioned, I would recommend you bring:

2 SSC or 1 SSC and the Casket

2 Units of Chariots if possible as hammers, at least 1 with a Tomb Prince (and give him Chariot of Fire!), if you've got the points or you don't want to go 3 Priests, stick your second Tomb Prince with the Tomb Guard.

2 Big Blocks of Skeleton Warriors (HW and Shield)

Your Block of Tomb Guard (possibly with Tomb Prince with Great weapon)

Your Swarms in ICFB to take out war machines or mages, also a Tomb Scorpion or a unit of Carrion (5 Carrion might be a good idea as you can auto-kill units who flee through them)

Maybe 5 Heavy or 5 Light Cav to divert or expose Boar Boyz to charges.

A LP to man the casket or the SSCs.

Your LHP with the Cloak of the Dunes to help everywhere.

That's probably all the points you got.

Orcs by themselves really aren't that flexible, their greatest Strength is hard ranked combat, if you flank them with a chariot unit they are likely done and it is difficult to support each other. Watch out for the WAAGH! call!

If he pops in some Goblin Fast Cavalry to mess with you, or weirder stuff like Chariots or Squigs, you might have more problems, but if he just brings blocks of massed Orcs you should be able to defeat them.

Big WAAAGH! magic can be really hurty, which is why I suggest Tomb Scorpion or Carrion to eat the shamans.

Ymir
06-06-2007, 23:32
However, your intended Horseman unit is illegal; you cannot have a tomb prince on a chariot accompany any unit except a unit of chariots.

Ah, yes, you're right of course. I noticed that now. Too bad, everyone I'm playing with said that you could, and I've already made a nice moving tray for them :(

Well...at least now I won't feel the need to paint up my tomb prince in chariot until sunday ...

Good tip about the ushabti also; maybe I can do without them in this game. I really can't afford both them and the casket.

My large (30) block of skeletons w light armour, hw and shield seems like a good idea, according to you all...guess I'll definitely use that.

/Ymir

warlord hack'a
07-06-2007, 09:10
if he brings vanilla orcs only without support then you can handle him, which is only to be expected as he is taking only a small part of his choices so he is deliberately making his army weaker..

If he brings however a balanced force of orcs with some svg orcs, some chariots, orcs with double choppas and some orc boyz then you are in more of a problem, especially if he selects his characters well. But you would have been in even more trouble if he would have brought a balanced force of orcs&goblins, using cheap wolfriders, cheap bolt throwers and a few fanatics to take out your chariots.

So, seeing that he will bring orcs only I would put a lot in shooting to take down his special choices, normal block of orcs is not that good in hth, but a block of orc big uns, svg orcs or black orcs will ruin your day..

Revamp
09-07-2007, 16:08
Casket of Souls is highly useful here, the only reason it could fail to regain its points cost is how cheap orcs are.

Place it on a hill and they are going to have one horrible advance, considering their low leadership with a few good rolls you could depopulate entire units with ease.

Combine this with Queen Khalida and her poisoned arrows (auto-wounding on sixes is a Gods-sent considering the average Orc save) and you can cause immense carnage before they are anywhere near you.

I would not skimp on the Lich Priests even if you opt against archers: their incantations can be useful in many different ways. Try and give one of them the item that causes terror, the greatest weakness of the orcs (apart perhaps for their tendancy to attack each other instead of the enemy) is their low LD and thankfully as a Tomb King general you have many more tools to exploit that with than most.