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Aflo
09-06-2007, 19:38
So here's the situation: My unit of chaos knights has just beaten down a chariot. They overun and just barely clip a unit of dark elf warriors. What would I do; alighn the knights to the unit of elves so my whole unit is in base to base contact, or, would I keep the knights in the position they were in when they clipped, and have only 1 of my knights in combat?
This situation occured in a game I had on Tueday. We resolved it like the second option, but neither of us were sure and couldn't find anything specific in the rulebook (this was a quick skim mind you). Any help would be great :)

Regards
Aflo (Adam)

Negativemoney
09-06-2007, 19:50
you treat the overun/pursuit as a new charge and you must wheel the best you can to maximise models against that unit.

Please note: You can only do this once you are found to be able to clip that unit when you make the roll and move strait.

Rules for this can be found in the rulebook on page 45 first line of the second colum.

DeathlessDraich
09-06-2007, 19:57
Two ways are commonly used:

1) Abide by the Appendix (which recommends instead of stipulates), provided in the latest FAQ and adjust both units until they maximise models.

2) Allow clipping and hope that Free manoeuvres at the end of combat will solve the problem in the next round. If clipping persists after that - leave town!

This is an area which GW refuses to resolve so players have to do it themselves unfortunately. Refusal of rules resolution leads to rules masturbation! :p

theunwantedbeing
09-06-2007, 20:04
Yeah page 45 covers this nicely.
You wheel to get as many models as possible into base contact like a normal charge.

Aflo
09-06-2007, 20:21
Ok, thanks guys. Shame my rule lawyering isn't quite up to scratch as I subsequently lost that combat and my knights were overun :eek: Oh dear.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-06-2007, 21:28
You try and get as many knights in as you can with the movement you have. But outside of that, your stuck. There are nothing in the rules that allows you to slide them in or anything like that.

It's mentioned in the FAQ, something you can do if you and your opponent both agrees. But then, as long as you agree, you can do anything, it is explicitly said to be against the rules.

Yellow Commissar
10-06-2007, 00:35
Ok, thanks guys. Shame my rule lawyering isn't quite up to scratch as I subsequently lost that combat and my knights were overun :eek: Oh dear.


No, you played it right. :)

While it is certainly within the rules to agree to utilize the appendix for clipping, it is not something you want to push for in the middle of a game. The appendix should be agreed upon before playing. It is too easily abused when selectively applied.

For instance, in your game, you would have been greatly assisted by the additional 10-15 attacks you would have been allowed if you had slid your knights over. This is fine only when both players have had the same opportunity.

There is a difference between you making the case that your knights get all these extra attacks and me telling you to slide your unit on in so we can fight. It's more than just a matter of perspective, the divide between these two approaches is enormous.

On the one hand, a player is aggressively arguing, while on the other, a player is being generous and agreeable. They both may result in the same game effect on the table top, but thier effect upon the fun meter can be drastic. :(

Great question. You played exactly right. While I wouldn't go so far as to say that sliding is "against" the rules, I will say that the rules don't allow for it. A group of players all agreeing to use sliding is definitely within the rules, though. That's how we play it where I'm from, anyway.

Gorbad Ironclaw
10-06-2007, 03:43
Great question. You played exactly right. While I wouldn't go so far as to say that sliding is "against" the rules, I will say that the rules don't allow for it. A group of players all agreeing to use sliding is definitely within the rules, though. That's how we play it where I'm from, anyway.


Whats the difference?

Besides, that whats they(GW) actually said in there own FAQ.

Yellow Commissar
11-06-2007, 01:49
Whats the difference?

Besides, that whats they(GW) actually said in there own FAQ.

The FAQ does not say that.

The difference is that you are trying to bully a player into playing in a way which is contrary to the spirit of the game, while I am encouraging him to read the appendix and make up his own mind how he would most enjoy playing.

MarcoPollo
11-06-2007, 22:42
No sliding. It has obvious benefits to the attacker, expecially in the case of cold one saurus cav, and chosen knights of khorne.

IMHO, the sliding takes away an important aspect of the game: Charge and counter-charge; bait and flee; overrun and pursue; defensive positioning and agressive attacking.

The sliding effect increases the effective range of Cavalry (which generally don't need it), and by relativity reduces the effectiveness of single attack infantry (which rely on static CR anyways). Of course, if I can get my unit of chosen khorne warriors with halberds far enough to just touch an enemy unit on a charge I would want to argue for sliding. But do I want my marauder unit to be clipped by a saurus cav unit (maybe even in the flank) and have to deal with all their attacks when only one or two would get to fight by standard rules?

Clipping is a standard tactical proceedure. On the other hand, Gw did say that if you could wheel to get the best frontage, you should do so. But that is wheeling to get the frontage, not sliding. This wheeling reduces the amount of Chariot offensive clipping that occurs. I believe offensive chariot/monster clipping to be a huge problem becuase they are usually shock troops that do not want to get attacked back.