View Full Version : starting over with empire

09-06-2007, 20:02
hi guys,

I might need some help getting together a proper armylist. I've got an Empire army here that I put on hold fore a couple of years and that I'd like to reactivate and paint.
I haven't played any FB the last years and have absolutly no plan what to do with it. I'd like to build a base army that will go against Highelves the first times. Around 1000-2000 points for a start. Since we haven't upgraded to 7th Ed. yet and like to get into it again without buying a lot of new stuff we think to play 6th ed. first (also old empire army book) any big changes in the 7th?
Now a list of units and stuff I have laying around perhaps someone can help me to build an army out of it. I really want to use a unit of pikemen or pirazzo's as all models are themed as an estalian conquistador army.

everything poissible here. I have two nice conversions, at least one of them I'd like to include, some one on a pegasus and a Grand Master

- 25 knights
- 40 freecompany/archer
- 25 swordsmen
- 15 handgunners
- 80* models that I can make Crossbowmen, Spearmen, Halberdiers (core) of. or Pikemen/Lost legion(rare)* s.b.

-10 greatswords
- 6 pistoliers
- * any number of canons/mortars

-1 hellgun
-80* models that I can make Pikemen/Lost legion(rare)*of,
or s.o. Crossbowmen, Spearmen, Halberdiers(core)

enough command units for everything

Thank y'all for youre intrest and help.

11-06-2007, 19:28
no one?

11-06-2007, 23:24
Big changes. I can't really tell you them all here, so you best bet is just buy the book. Core fighting choices got cheaper, outriders are back and warrior priests are now a must have.

I'll tell you some more when I'm not dead on my feet.

Crazy Harborc
12-06-2007, 01:17
Pistoliers have a brace(2) of pistols. Fire both and it's a -1 because of the multiple shooting rule (see the weapons lists in the rulebook)

Outriders with their repeater handguns have a better BS and the same -1 for multiple shooting.

Detachments and their special rules can win HtHs. Detachments charging the unit that charged their parent unit. A detachment of shooters can shoot without the -1 (for a charge) when it's parent unit is charged. (Other shooting rules still apply;) ) The Empire special detachment rules are very good.

12-06-2007, 16:26
Hardly any changes in the new empire book so i really wouldn't bother buying it:

-State troops: 1 less point each
-Pistoliers 18pts and fast cav. Outriders cost a bit more.
-New St5 mortar weapon , bit less accurate.
-detatchments now get a free wheel into the flank if their parent unit also charges the enemy in the front.

Aside for some new toys and wargear (the engineers stuff is nice) that's about it...

You shouldn't have any problem getting 2000pts out of the models you have, though i'd start out with a smaller 1k list to try out different units and see which one's you like.

Two units of 24 swords or spears, each supported by a detatchment of 12 free company would be a good start - i'd stick a captain or warrior priest in with them as they'll need the Ld. bonus. Add a unit of 8ish knghts and two decent sized missile units (crossbows or handguns depending on your preference) for the flanks.

That should leave you with around 50 - 150pts to spend on magic or a mortar (v usefull against T3 opponents).

12-06-2007, 23:35
Don't listen to that last advice: You have to buy the book (or at least borrow it from a friend), too much is changed for you to get by without it.

13-06-2007, 09:44
Respectfully disagree. Was pretty disappointed with the very few real changes they'd put in - like the rules developers were busy doing something else. Empire should be one of the greatest opportunities for variant lists from the the different regions, different knights etc - there's a good variety of core troops but I dont see them playing any differently than before.

In short - have a look at the new book and decide for yourself.

14-06-2007, 00:45
I personly think the reason for so few changes in the new empire book was because so few things needed to be changed. Yes they didnt add much as far as new knightly orders or magic items, but overall they added a handfull of new units fixed things that needed fixing and didnt really break anything (cept maybe KotWW).

As far as helping the origonal poster make and army list.
If your going for a "typical" empire army, not knightly order, or gunline type thing,

i would say start with 2-3 blocks of infantry @ 25-30 men a pop.
give them each 1 or 2 detachments, add in 1 small unit of calvary for every large block of infantry, and shooty units & artillery to your liking.

14-06-2007, 01:43
The New Empire book is way, way different than the 6th edition one. You really must have it. To say there weren't any big changes is crazy. Too many to list. The 7th edition Empire plays alot different than 6th.

15-06-2007, 14:21
It's true, buy the book. Magic items and banners have changed as well, making 6th v 7th ed. builds different. Engineers and the Griffon banner are now out.

Causa Mortis
15-06-2007, 21:04
Playing among close friends you can still play 6th ed rules with the old rulebook. But playing 7th ed you really need the latest rulebook. That's just the way it is:)

15-06-2007, 21:42
Well surprisingly nobody has mentioned that the Hellblaster has to roll to hit now. I believe there is a thread around somewhere on the forums that highlighted most of the changes from 6th-7th Edition (Core Rulebook), so you could take a gander at that if you wish.

There were a lot of seemingly minor changes, but some of them affect gameplay quite significantly. For instance, mounted models only receive +1 Strength from a great weapon now.

I definitely am of the opinion that you should get the new Empire book when you get a chance.

16-06-2007, 12:59
Well.... Yes, you've got to buy the new book, no way around it. While not that much has changed, it's enough to make it necessary: points, magic items with a slightly different wording, new rules for priests, outriders, and so on.

What I found disappointing was that many of the real issues of the Empire list weren't solved. The engineer is still useless (why not make it a war machine upgrade, why?!?), and halberdiers are still worse than spearmen and swordsmen.

Napoleon Blownapart
18-06-2007, 20:22
What about suing halberdiers as detachments?

Crazy Harborc
19-06-2007, 00:33
I have rarely used halberds as detachments. Not at all in 7th Edition. I have the minies, I just don't really care for them. I've seen them in a couple of other Empire armies at the company store.

20-06-2007, 03:30
The Emperor Karl Franz demands that your first army selection is a sizable block of halberdiers. Since you must have them, I recommend 25-30 with a captain leading them (and 2 detachments of your choice).

No, in all honesty-there are some harsh criticisms of how the halberdiers lose out to swords and spears in a game of math-hammer. However, the Empire fluff says that the Emperor has required all Elector Counts to maintain a force of halberdiers and that they are the most numerous weapon in the Empire. They may not win any popularity contests, but by the fluff, Empire armies should use them. They make great detachments as well because they are almost always charging.

That is unless you take an all cav army, then you can leave the footsloggers at home.

Empire generals! Take halberdiers as your first choice! The Emperor requires this of you.

Crazy Harborc
20-06-2007, 03:46
Thank you for including the magic word "fluff". Had a slight moment of oh dear. I usually blast/shoot away my opponent's halberd units. They have done the same to me, when I used them.

22-06-2007, 15:33
Consensus seems to be that 7th ed is quite different so I guess i'm proved wrong on that one! Going with the OP's list of figures available i'd maybe try some of the following:
- Handgunner units of 12+ with a small detatchment of 5 to countercharge are good for holding a flank - esp when you attack with empire and need to go straight up the middle.
- 5 Pistoliers as an exploitative unit tucked in behind your knights as they advance, once the knights have charged in you get them into your opponents rear
- Unit of 24 Free company, maybe with a character (warrior priest...?) not having a detachment sucks but the volume of hits on the charge makes them a worthwhile extra infantry unit.
- Have found mortars to be exceptionally worthwhile for 75pts.

Von Wibble
23-06-2007, 09:18
I have found the new list plays similar myself. I haven't really changed tactics as the list made everything I used better!

Helblaster is still very good - although you roll to hit you get S5 at long range and points reduction -a fair trade.

War Alter is very nice - the extra thing to my list that I can afford now that infantry are cheaper. Shame the model is years old - there is real potential there.

Mortars are the 2nd worst war machine in the game (after the repeater bolt thrower). They kill only T3 troops with low armour. But so do crossbows, handguns, bows, magic, all of your troops in combat, pretty much every other war machine available to you etc. They compete with pistoliers, inner circle and cannon - all of which fill a role in the army that nothing else can.

2 units of infantry with detachments is ample as too many models can't deploy well anyway. Once you add in knights, pistoliers, war machines, flagellants and missile troops thats already a crowded house.

Halberdiers are OK as detachments but free company are generally better. And captaincortez, I believe that most northern provinces (I play Ostermark) have spear and bow as their choice of weapon - I tend to go with this, plus 1 unit of swordsmen. Imo halberds should fight in ranks and cost 1 more point (without shield) Then spears get armour save and are cheaper whilst halberds have +1S.

Causa Mortis
24-06-2007, 19:45
Mortars are not the 2nd worst war machine in the game by a long shot. In fact I think they are one of the best. That large template destroy half a unit if the aim remains true. Cannons are good for certain things but I find mortars to be more useful

25-06-2007, 08:21
Reasons to like mortars:
- A reasonably cheap warmachine.
-With the large template they are reasonably accurate - your chance of hitting something at least is decent as even if it drifts there's a 50% chance it'll be sideways onto another unit. You can always take an engineer to help out. Guess for the centre of the biggest unit to give yourself the best chance of hitting
- Even though it's best against T3 opponents the -1 save is pretty useful
- You only need small gap in your units to see through so unlike all the handgunner units it takes up little precious space in your deployment line - extra firepower really.

Almost Fearless
29-06-2007, 22:41
Empire generals! Take halberdiers as your first choice! The Emperor requires this of you.


Why does no one else but me seem to care?

I normally use two blocks of 20 - they are actually ok, especially supporting something meaty like greatswords or knights, as their high strength beats your opponent's toughness and armour down a bit in one lovely halberd-shaped package. Give them their own detachments of handgunners and they're a decent defensive chunk.

At least now Inner Circle knights are special and don't seem to outnumber the regular knights...