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Lord_Byron
13-06-2007, 17:54
I've recently purchased 6 savage orc boar boyz, but before I paint them I want to work something out in my head first. Are the spears worth it for them? The spears cost 2 points per model, so in a unit of 5 I'd be saving 10 points in forgoing them... while 10 points doesn't sound like much, orcs and goblins have lots of different cheap units that those 10 points can go a long way towards purchasing. Almost half of a fanatic for example.

So what do you fellows think? Spears or no spears?

Vattendroppe
13-06-2007, 18:04
And exchange the +1 str from choppas? Nope. I don't think so at least. (Might be relevant to mention that I don't play OaG)

Darn, missed the 'boar'.

Lord_Byron
13-06-2007, 18:12
Well... the boar boyz wouldn't receive the +1 Str from choppas. Those don't work when mounted.

I'm wondering if the +1 Str is necessary at all considering the savage boar boyz get alot of Str 5 attacks from the boars to begin with.

5 boar boyz with spears (and shields) would cost 125 points for 10 str 4 attacks (spears) and 10 str 5 attacks (boars) on the charge.

5 without the spears would cost 115 points for 10 str 3 attacks (orcs) and 10 str 5 attacks (boars) on the charge.

I guess I'm trying to talk myself into skipping the spears...

DarkTerror
13-06-2007, 18:24
As a general rule of thumb, always let your troops have the highest strength stat they can. For 10 points? Of course!

Unless you want them to die. In that case, toss them in the toilet and go buy more snotlings.

The Anarchist
13-06-2007, 18:45
that extra point of strength may seem failry inconsequential, but for ten points youa re almost gaureented to pay theselves back easily. I know i make special effort to take out troops like that as an Elf player!

Snoozer
13-06-2007, 19:20
I would take the spears certainly, but don't know if I would take shields, I think that would depend mostly on who you play against.

I for one don't have to face that many armies with missile units, and against war machines and the like a shield (armor save) does very little (i.e. nothing).

All this talk of Savage Orc Boar Boyz has really peeked my interest in them and made me reconsider about buying a unit of them, and now that the boar it self is also frenzied they look like a very appealing unit choice indeed.

:D

Zonq
13-06-2007, 21:46
I'm with Snoozer on this one. I always take the spears, but I take shields only when I think I'll be facing a lot of low S missile units.

ZOnq

Crazy Harborc
14-06-2007, 00:19
Boar boys, be they savage or regulars, I take the spears for the +1 on the charge. As to shields, one more number to save does come in handy.

Lord_Byron
14-06-2007, 04:06
Interesting. This really highlights the difference in mindsets between players and play styles. I had never even considered not taking the shields for them, as I tend to play pretty defensively.

Now the question I'm posing myself is, do I not equip them with any extras so that a unit of 5 will cost only 105 points? I find that pretty attractive...

Of course, my biggest problem with boar boyz is that they compete with squigs and warmachines for special slots. The second biggest problem is their cost... but I suppose if I ever did field them, the battle would have to be large enough to where the special slots were more open... and if the battle is that large, I would have the points available to give them spears and shields.

Thanks for the posts guys. Looks like the boyz are going to be fully kitted.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
14-06-2007, 15:28
Well I always take spear and shields on my savage boar boyz, recently I use savage boar big'uns, yes I know they cost 33pts each but they can dish out 20 s5 attacks on the charge, which is deadly for almost every unit:)

Greetz
G

espen
14-06-2007, 16:47
well from first hand experience on facing OaG take the spears... that 1 str makes a huge diffrence, it hurts very much on my zombies :o

sun tzu
16-06-2007, 21:01
yes, go with the spears.

Much better

Not sure why everyone wants to use small units? ? ? ?:confused:

I look to using 10 as the minimum unit size

Avian
16-06-2007, 21:03
Not sure why everyone wants to use small units? ? ? ?:confused:
Because a point of rank bonus that a) costs 125+ points, and b) can easily be removed with a single casualty, is generally not very effective. ;)

El'Flashman
16-06-2007, 21:12
I maybe wrong here, but I don't think the Boars are subject to frenzy only the Savage Orcs so... you can't have 10 S5 attacks from the boars... can you?

Avian
16-06-2007, 21:15
You are indeed wrong here. Read the 7th edition rulebook FAQ: http://uk.games-workshop.com/download/download.htm?/news/errata/assets/wh/warhammer7.pdf

Page 3, right hand column, halfway down the page.

El'Flashman
16-06-2007, 21:17
Wow...! That's crazy. Thanks for the heads up Avian :D

bram kuijpers
18-06-2007, 06:54
take the damn shields and spears +1 strenght and a 3+ save in combat AND having frenzy with a ward save? upgrade to the max!:p

Avian
18-06-2007, 11:21
Savage Boar Boyz only get a 4+ armour save in combat (or anywhere else), even with shields.

Huw_Dawson
18-06-2007, 15:59
Spending points on cavalry units is always an "it depends" answer for me, and I will say why in a minute, but here it's basically a sence of "it's 10pts!". :p

Cavalry is used in two roles. One is flanking, one is fending off flanking cavalry. Hence why cavalry is so often misplayed and malequipped. If their flanking then keep them as cheap as possible to spend on other things. If their going to be flanking either well armoured chaps (Dwarves) or stopping units of knights from flanking you, better equipment is vital.

I think I'm playing too much Rome: Total War...

- Huw

warlord hack'a
21-06-2007, 17:37
ye syou are playing too much RTW, picture SVg orcs as cataphracts.. ;-)

get them spears and shields, doubles their effectiveness!

warlord hack'a
22-06-2007, 12:09
in short: you get svg orcs to do damage, not to loiter around or pull charges or get shot to bits or chase after fast cav or warmachines. You get them to charge in, do as much damage as possible and break the enemy (preferably in combination with a fully ranked up unit or a chariot or two). I always fully kit my boyz, yuo are not throwing away points for a second rank of unused equipment anyway!

last tournament I played in my svg orc boar boyz saved me:
my enemy had one unit of saurus warrios next to a unit of temple guards with slann. In the flank area of the saurus warriors stood my svg orc boyz. To the front of the temple guard stood my unit of svg orc big uns. I was going to have a very nice day, so I thought..

But then my turn came, and things turned green.. A unit of night gobbo's next to my svg orcs on foot rolled a 6 for their animosity, stumbled a number of inches forward, enough to get them to within 8 inch of the thmple guards, so the 3 fanatics in there were released. None of them made it to the temple guards (I pointed them that way because I knew my orcs on foot were more than 8 inch away from the templeguard so did not have to charge). Then my orcs on foot rolled for animosity and you guessed it, also rolled a six, stumbling 2 inch forward. My boar boyz passed their test without problems.

Then the time came to declare charges: my boar boyz hit the saurus warriors in the flank and I found out that my svg boyz on foot were all of a sudden within 8 inch of the templeguard and had to charge them, thgouh my own fanatics..

What started the charge as a unit 20 strong ended the charge as a unit 9 strong, with general, against the front of his fully ranked up unit of temple guard, I was in serious trouble..

But I kept hope and first decided to fight the boar boyz battle: they had 20 attacks in total, hit 10 or 11 of them, wounded something like 7 or 8 and the warriors flunked their saves, broke and ran away! I pursued, caught them and managed to just reach the flank of the saurus warriors.

Now things looked a lot better. I rolled again 20 dice for the boar boyz, hit with 16! wounded 11! and eventually killed 9. My general added a few kills and I seriously won combat.

I do not recall if the temple guard broke, i think they stayed as they are stubborn, but the unit was so seriously hurt that before the battle was over I had chewed up the entire unit.

Nice added thing was that this battle went around the tournament participants (we were with 10 in total) and in the next battle my dark elf enemy righteously feared my svg orc boar boyz so much that they had been shot to bits by the end of turn 2, except for one lone rider, who then managed to terrorize his dark riders just by being there (he never saw combat but did keep two DE units busy for quite some time).

So it goes to show: 150some points is a bargain!

ehlijen
24-06-2007, 08:11
The difference between str 3 and 4 is very significant. That's one sixth more wounds and one sixth more failed armour saves (assuming the target had one). It usually turns out about 1 to 2 more casualties in a frontage of 5 for savage riders. And it's way cheaper than the Warbanner. I say go for it.

DarkTerror
26-06-2007, 00:45
Spending points on cavalry units is always an "it depends" answer for me, and I will say why in a minute, but here it's basically a sence of "it's 10pts!". :p

Cavalry is used in two roles. One is flanking, one is fending off flanking cavalry. Hence why cavalry is so often misplayed and malequipped. If their flanking then keep them as cheap as possible to spend on other things. If their going to be flanking either well armoured chaps (Dwarves) or stopping units of knights from flanking you, better equipment is vital.

I think I'm playing too much Rome: Total War...

- Huw


LOL. Clearly you are, as that is not cavalry's only job