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View Full Version : What's your opinion on Commissar's in a guard army?



SepulchreKnight
14-06-2007, 00:36
Do you think they are worth a spot on the list when you add and or delete army choices? (like gear and combat doctrines.)

EVIL INC
14-06-2007, 00:42
In my view all imperial gaurd armies should have at least one. They are such an integrel part of imperial gaurd life that were I to have a gaurd army, I would not be able to live with myself if didnt have at least one.
Besides, thier fluff is just cool.:p

Lord Malek The Red Knight
14-06-2007, 00:43
unfortunately, i feel they are inflexible and too expensive for what you get (especially when you remember that their Ld bonus doesnt work down a Vox).

Independant Commissars are more flexible, but cost more and cant be "hidden" in CC due to their IC status. they also dont count towards Scoring Status and use up a Doctrine Point and Elite slot.

if standard Commissars could be attached to more units and with more freedom, or if their Ld bonus worked down a Vox, of if they cost much less pts, i could see them getting used more. until then i have other things to spend my points on (which is a shame). :(

~ Tim

shutupSHUTUP!!!
14-06-2007, 00:51
They are about 10 points too expensive and require a 20 point power fist to kill anything too. The best thing about commissar's is the leadership 10 radius for your officer (combined with a standard bearer). In close combat they cannot be targetted which makes them relatively good MEq killers with a power fist.

I occasionally use a commissar with a power fist for 60 points, he does his bit against HtH armies but he is often the first model to get dropped from the army list when points are tight.

Paying an extra 10 points to make them independant characters is senseless in my opinion. The +1 leadership is best used in a command squad anyway. You can make -multiple- squads leadership 10 that way.

cleansingfury
14-06-2007, 00:51
Love em, especially independent ones cause yes they are IC's but when they are in a squad it is LD10 for that squad, and doesnt that stack with close order drill to make it 11 or is there something against it?

Master Bait
14-06-2007, 00:52
damn, is that what commisars have come to? they always appeared to me as an integral part of an IG army, both fluff and game wise. hope this changes

Bloodknight
14-06-2007, 00:55
I agree that the commissar costs about 10 points too much. In his last incarnation he was also 40 points but had three attacks, not 2 which made him a lot more useful.

Gen.Steiner
14-06-2007, 01:19
I almost always take at least one. I can't think of a single list I have that doesn't include at least one; one list has three Independent Commissars.

I always make space because, well, it's the Guard! Of COURSE they should have a Commissar! 46 points for one with a bolt pistol and power sword is fine by me...

Gaius_Baltar
14-06-2007, 01:20
I rarely use a Commissar in my Guard army. But when I do use it, it's usualy for a squad that needs to get deep into the enemy forces or something, so that they won't fall back as easily. Also though in a huge Vox system.

sabre4190
14-06-2007, 02:15
Ive seen commissars used quite well. Powerfists in a command squad are always nice, but ive seen even cheaper power weapons work with some successs. But, I think they should be a tad cheaper. Still, if you can, take one.

Templar Ben
14-06-2007, 02:25
I never use it in my guard list.

Want to know something sad though? I sometimes stick Yarrick in my BT army just as a model. I have a coworker that has a son that plays orks and we often run special missions where he is trying to kill Yarrick (using his states from the IG Dex). Even when we don't do that I will often have him on the field when fighting orks.

DaRN fluff players.

Gen.Steiner
14-06-2007, 11:38
I never use it in my guard list.

That makes the baby Emperor cry. :(

Crippler
14-06-2007, 11:42
I to always have at least one and in my Cadian Infantry Army I have included 5;-) along with 5 priests and 5 Psykers

Col.Gravis
14-06-2007, 11:54
I dont really use them in games of 1500pts or less but they do often appear in larger lists, to reason being I tend to be happy with Ld8 and use Roughriders for counter assault - in larger games additional leadership can be useful and the points are there to fund it, likewise it's handy to have additional counter-assault forces and a HSO or equivilient with a hidden Commissar Powerfist is a useful but expensive option.

infernus31
14-06-2007, 11:58
I have used them in the past, but they really, are just to expensive nowadays for em to use them in my gaurd army, for the same points as a command section its a bit ridiculous if you ask me, bring him down by 10 points and I dont think id leave the barrack without one carting a powerfist and some melta bombs though (maybe to show what he does to tank commanders showing cowardice against the Emperor's foes, thankfully after the battle though!) :)

Sureshot05
14-06-2007, 13:37
Always fielded them, always will. Its not guard unless the commanding officer is "under pressure to perform"

:evilgrin:

Gen.Steiner
15-06-2007, 00:53
The Commissar is there merely to ensure that the Commander does not forget his love for the God-Emperor, and to purify his soul in the event of a temporary lapse of moral fibre. :D

Nurglitch
15-06-2007, 01:05
The Commissar is there merely to ensure that the Commander does not forget his love for the God-Emperor, and to purify his soul in the event of a temporary lapse of moral fibre. It is a little known fact that the Imperial Commissariat is in charge of the Imperial Guard's whites and linens.

northoceanbeach
15-06-2007, 01:10
they should come with the powerfist for free, as they are now that's 60 points, and for that you could get 10 more guard, totally not worth it. They are however good as independents in one instance only, stick em with 40 conscripts.

Polonius
15-06-2007, 01:11
Commissars really aren't that great in anything under 2000pts. Even the new IG codex has throttled back the fluff for how common commissars are. Many Regiments only include one, and it seems likely that he'd hang out with the regimental commander.

Gen.Steiner
15-06-2007, 01:26
It is a little known fact that the Imperial Commissariat is in charge of the Imperial Guard's whites and linens.

It's true. :D The whiter the underwear, the purer the soul.


Commissars really aren't that great in anything under 2000pts. Even the new IG codex has throttled back the fluff for how common commissars are. Many Regiments only include one, and it seems likely that he'd hang out with the regimental commander.

Um. Who cares about effectiveness? It's the Guard! Commissars for the win! As for how prevalent they are... some Regiments only have a few. Most have more; usually one a company. Penal Legions have even more, Ogryn Regiments are commanded by Commissars.

Templar Ben
15-06-2007, 03:17
That makes the baby Emperor cry. :(

We I make sure my BT always have Yarrick there to purge the xenos.

Darkhorse
15-06-2007, 09:15
Not since the change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed.
A Vet. Sgt. is more useful than either Commissar or Vox.
Independants might have a role in Special weapons squads as these don't have access to vet. sgts. but beyond that I couldn't justify taking them anymore.
Shame really, but there it is.

Gen.Steiner
15-06-2007, 09:25
Not since the change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed. ... I couldn't justify taking them anymore.

2nd Edition/Rogue Trader background is the best background. ;) Besides, you shouldn't be taking Commissars because they're effective, you should be taking them because they're Commissars! :D

Darkhorse
15-06-2007, 10:43
Vet sgt. and bolter = +7pts
Commissar = 5 vet sgts. enough for every infantry squad in a full size platoon.
Honorifica is half the cost of a commissar.
From a fluff perspective there should only be one commissar per company (Epic Armageddon) and according to the Cain novels a significant ammount have rather truncated careers; "Dying for the Emperor, even when the enemy was half a continent away" which would seem to indicate that there are a large number without commissars, (particularly veterans).

Gen.Steiner
15-06-2007, 10:46
From a fluff perspective there should only be one commissar per company

Depends on the regiment. Some have more, some have less, and Commissars move around - you could concievably have the regiment's entire complement of Commissars attach themselves to one unit for the duration of a specific attack.

Darkhorse
15-06-2007, 10:55
The other possibility is a Conscript Platoon, filled with as many flamers as I can fit in, attach an indy commissar and shove 'em forward like the expendable cannon fodder they are!:evilgrin:
The Commie will of course behave in a Cain-like fashion, using the Conscripts as meatshields.

Scythe
15-06-2007, 11:03
I use one from time to time, just for character and because I like the model, but for pure effectiveness, I would leave them home. They aren't really worth the points you are investing in them (as with a lot of characterfull guard additions, like priests and enginseers)...

Bunnahabhain
15-06-2007, 17:56
I just have the two, only one of which sees use very often, as the other is on a horse. They're definitely there more for character than effectiveness in this edition, so take a cheap one for fun.

CommisarMolotov
15-06-2007, 18:09
I like 'em for fluff purposes, but as others have pointed out, unless you spend a doctrine point on Independent Commisars or buy a mess of 'em, they generally only get the opportunity to shoot your top officers!

I like using my old-school Yarrick model as a Heroic Senior Officer stand-in, myself.

Alles klar, eh, Kommisar?

xibo
15-06-2007, 21:28
That makes the baby Emperor cry. :(

baby Emperor? BABY EMPEROR? HERESY!
I will tell the commissar! :D


I allways have a commissar for each officer( including the hardened veteran veteran because I'm so used to ), at least unless I have more than 5 Officers running around. And thanks to the trademark items I seldomly lose officers to them anyway...

stecal
15-06-2007, 22:18
If I use I commisar I use Gaunt. For about the same pts as an ind Commisar with PF he is superior with his str 4 power sword & other special rules.

Gen.Steiner
17-06-2007, 23:19
But if you're using Gaunt then really your army should be the Okhrans* (?) or the Tanith...

* The regiment he was with before the Tanith posting.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
17-06-2007, 23:23
You could just use Commissar Gaunt's rules and say he is some other commissar who is also a badass. IIRC he can be used in any Imperial Guard army. Just like how you can use Chapter Master Azrael of the Dark Angels in DA successor chapters and say it is somebody else.

nazrag
17-06-2007, 23:26
I use at least one in every game I have. Bolt pistol and power weapon is teh shizzle! :D

Gen.Steiner
17-06-2007, 23:31
You could just use Commissar Gaunt's rules and say he is some other commissar who is also a badass. IIRC he can be used in any Imperial Guard army.

Yes, but that's boring. If you're going to take Gaunt, do Gaunt properly. In fact, as he has the Sword of Heironymo Sondar, he has to be at the earliest in Vervunhive... ;) So the rules 'date' him. :D

onnotangu
18-06-2007, 00:17
I have a female commissar. "Win and the Emperor and I shall reward you greatly,Soldier....fail and I shall reward you....with DEATH!"

GIKvack
18-06-2007, 21:30
For my competitive lists the commissars go totally unused. They are way to much for what they do, and to inflexible to go where there really needed.

As for fun lists, Conscripts + Ind. Commissar is FTW!! Give him a trademark Item and they will have to kill the whole sqaud to make them go away. I've taken down Death Company and Terminator squads often with these things... if funny to see your opponent realize that there men are going to die from suffication under the bodies of them men they've killed.

Beast Rabban
19-06-2007, 03:30
At the the last tornament I was at there was IG with 2X50 conscripts with independant commisars. He used the advisers rule which he said had been FAQed. V. effective they were too.

Outlaw289
19-06-2007, 03:36
I'm converting some officers to look like Commissars to fit the background, but stats wise they're overcosted for what I want them for.


I have a female commissar. "Win and the Emperor and I shall reward you greatly,Soldier....fail and I shall reward you....with DEATH!"

:rolleyes:


Okhrans* (?)
* The regiment he was with before the Tanith posting.

8th Hyrkan

Gen.Steiner
19-06-2007, 03:59
8th Hyrkan! Thank you. Of course, you can't, as he's got Cameloline (which he didn't have with the Hyrkan) and the Sword of Sondar (Vervunhive and afterwards).

So the Gaunt character rules limit you to portraying Gaunt from the end of the Vervunhive siege to the current book. :)

Alexandr Ulyanov
19-06-2007, 06:34
2nd Edition/Rogue Trader background is the best background. ;)

Amen. I especially liked the ork empire, the clothed tyranids with armies made of zoats, and the shotguns. (S4, knockback 2" if you survive a hit, 18" range! Perfect for keeping the hordes off a squad)

As to your other comment about effectiveness and the guard, I have to agree. Guard aren't particularly cost effective, with the exception of some of their vehicles. I would have thought that mobilizing 180 points of guard into rapid fire range versus 180 points of marines should result in a slight guard advantage(assuming avgs and simultaneous firing), rewarding the IG for their trouble. After all, the guard player had to maneuver 30 troops, clustering his soldiers and requiring more planning than plopping down 12 marines. However, the guard still lose at shooting until they bring 40 guardsmen against those same 12 marines with bolters. Even then, they lose more troops and barely earn more points than the marines.
If you field an equal points value of guard against most things, the rules should have the guard win on points but lose more casualties, making victory through infantry depend on planning/placement and morale management. As they are, guard are point for point almost as bad a shooting unit as shoota boyz and victory through infantry is a statistically discouraging doctrine.

Like guardsmen, commissars are not cost effective; compare their profile to that of an inquisitor; the inquisitor is in most ways similar(worse leadership, better armor, minor differences) and costs 20 POINTS. I do not take units that are not either 1) cost effective, or 2) very flexible, so I never take normal comissars. The independent character ones, though, can be interesting.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
19-06-2007, 16:16
At the the last tornament I was at there was IG with 2X50 conscripts with independant commisars. He used the advisers rule which he said had been FAQed.
what do you (and him) mean by that? :confused:

~ Tim

Colonel Fitzgerald
19-06-2007, 16:32
Do you think they are worth a spot on the list when you add and or delete army choices? (like gear and combat doctrines.)


They are about 10 points too expensive and require a 20 point power fist to kill anything too. The best thing about commissar's is the leadership 10 radius for your officer (combined with a standard bearer). In close combat they cannot be targetted which makes them relatively good MEq killers with a power fist.

I occasionally use a commissar with a power fist for 60 points, he does his bit against HtH armies but he is often the first model to get dropped from the army list when points are tight.

Paying an extra 10 points to make them independant characters is senseless in my opinion. The +1 leadership is best used in a command squad anyway. You can make -multiple- squads leadership 10 that way.


I agree that the commissar costs about 10 points too much. In his last incarnation he was also 40 points but had three attacks, not 2 which made him a lot more useful.


I have used them in the past, but they really, are just to expensive nowadays for em to use them in my gaurd army, for the same points as a command section its a bit ridiculous if you ask me, bring him down by 10 points and I dont think id leave the barrack without one carting a powerfist and some melta bombs though (maybe to show what he does to tank commanders showing cowardice against the Emperor's foes, thankfully after the battle though!) :)


Your troops know if they're there or not. The Emperor is watching! I say take at least one political officer, always, regardless of cost. The troops will fight better under his eye.