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View Full Version : Grey Seers, Screaming Bells and their (proper) use



Azoth
14-06-2007, 00:47
I am a relatively new skaven player and I'm wondering if taking a screaming bell or even a grey seer is worth it at all. I have only played two games with the either, but so far the grey seer seems to come at too high a cost (when compared to a warlord who gets 1 more leadership at 100 less points) for their unpredictability. He either manages to zap himself with warplightning, miscast or he gets shaken off the bell by a roll of doubles in the shooting phase. I guess all wizards are not exactly solid, steady lords, but I really would like a way to incorporate him into my battles.
This brings me to the screaming bell itself, which is primarily where my complaints lie. For 200 points I get a big, random effect generator that has a high chance of causing wounds in the unit it occupies if it rolls doubles and especially triples. (Not uncommon if I choose to roll 3 die) It also causes impact hits when charging but this seems rather counter intuitive considering the level 4 wizard riding on top. In the battles ive played while using it, the bell has managed to destroy all the warmachines on the table (including mine) due to a lucky consecutive results of 10 on the effects, which causes anything toughness 7 and above on a the board to take hits. In another battle however it did absolutely nothing except make the unit pushing it stubborn. Not very useful on the first turn, eh?
I realize I should play more before I make any final decisions regarding either, but any advice players could offer would be of immense help, thanks.

DesertDirge
14-06-2007, 00:50
Screaming bell is a novelty. The grey seer can work. I wouldn't use the bell in less then 2000pts.

The bell could work with a horde army... but with a skaven horde you are dying for the warlords LD.

Azoth
14-06-2007, 01:11
Thanks, unfortunently my army isnt exactly a horde so it seems like my uses for the bell will apparently be limited to its novelty value.

spikedog
14-06-2007, 02:23
Not that I want to sound rude or anything but did you read anything about Skaven before starting the army?

They are THE army of randomness! You will find almost everything they have has a chance of hurting your own troops. They either work fantastically and you destroy everything or they fail horribily and you end up fighting a battle in your own army just to keep your lines from falling apart. To be honest I find the best battles with Skaven are the ones where you do as much damage to your own troops as to the enemies.

Many people, myself included, find this to be the best aspect of the Skaven. If you want a more effective Lord then the Warlord is the best choice but if you want a fun unpredictable one then Seer on the Bell all the way!

Kavu
14-06-2007, 07:15
and indeed that is the importance to horde the army in skaven so you can have something that can die from the stuff that goes wrong.

ZeroTwentythree
14-06-2007, 13:54
Screaming bell is a novelty. The grey seer can work. I wouldn't use the bell in less then 2000pts.



Well, seeing as you need a lord level character to ride the bell, that's kind of a requirement. :p



The bell could work with a horde army... but with a skaven horde you are dying for the warlords LD.

On the other hand, with the horde you can generally afford to see a regiment or two run off the table.

The only time I've actually witnessed the bell in a game it was an all magic skaven army. Nothing but clanrats, slaves, the bell and maxed out engineers.

I have never taken the bell in my skaven army (yet). I might consider it in games of about 3000 points. I may try it out in a 2500 point game someday just to see how it goes.

Falkman
14-06-2007, 13:59
A Seer on a bell coupled with an Engineer with Storm daemon makes for one nasty magic phase, and is nothing to scoff at.
I had my ass completely handed to me by a Skaven army with these characters, fielded by the guy who usually loses, and my army usually fares pretty well.
He didn't overdo it on shooting either, he just had a bucketload of magic and throw away troops, while my Wood elf army really felt every casualty he inflicted.

Needless to say, it is a great combo, and if you should roll doubles on the bell, it's hardly devastating, D3 S2 on the unit and Seer will barely scratch them, wounding the normal skaven on 5s and the Seer on 6s.

Also note that nothing in the Skaven army has T7, so your war machines should be fine from that result.

Mouse_NJ
14-06-2007, 14:16
The bell is an excellent addition to a skaven army, and gives several bonus to the grey seer that people typically forget about. First, the possibility of having your skaven affected by frenzy, hatred, and having a bells unit cause terror are really incredible. In edition, it generates magic dice, and adds magic resistance to the unit its in. Considering you get 2 for the board, the 4 for the grey seer, you can get another 2 for your pool! That's really powerful.

So how do you use it without killing your grey seer. Firstly, who cares if you roll doubles. The unit the bell is in is immune to psychology so its not going to run if you cause a couple wounds.

Secondly, if you roll a triple, who cares, skaven were made to be fun and not like anyone else out there... if your looking for a non-randome army your really playing the wrong race.

Third, from my experience the best use for the bell is to stick it in the middle of your like with a unit of slaves in front of it, deploy the bell in a unit of 20 clan rats and dont move it. This will allow you to have a cheap unit for taking wounds, and that way you leave your kinda elite skaven (storm vermin) to try and fight without killing your Character you really need. Stand up there with pride and start throwing warp lightning and all the direct damage spells you can muster.

Azoth
14-06-2007, 16:11
Also note that nothing in the Skaven army has T7, so your war machines should be fine from that result.


Dosn't the warp lightning cannon have toughness 7?

Falkman
15-06-2007, 06:58
Dosn't the warp lightning cannon have toughness 7?
Nope, both the Warp lightning cannon and the Screaming bell has T6, I would guess they made it that way just so they wouldn't suffer hits from the bell results.

DeathlessDraich
15-06-2007, 13:00
I'm surprised any Skaven player would support the inclusion of a Screaming bell as it creates more disadvantages than it has uses:

1) >500pts in one unit - a nice juicy target for the enemy unlike most Skaven units.

2) Low probability of a good roll:
a) Only one super offensive effect - a roll of 13. Probability of this = just under 10%
b) D3 wounds on T7 - probability = 16%
c) Probability of hatred or frenzy = 16% and 2%!!

3) The alternative to having a Screaming bell are far better - 10 Jezzails Or 24 Clanrats w Ratling gun and 5 Night Runners etc

4) It is susceptible to the S7 hit rule against chariots

Wickerman71
15-06-2007, 14:07
Screaming Bell

Chariot with a Wardsave "remeber the Greyseer Benifits from an armour save
Unit gets Magic Resistance 2 & the Seer gets 2 powerdice
The Seer has 360 degree of site & a high vantage point with in a unit
O yeah Ringing the Bell


Seems to be more than just a random effect generator to me. Though I think a kitted Seer on a Bell is way to big of a point sink in a 2000 point game

DesertDirge
15-06-2007, 14:47
yep.. put that seer up on the bell and pray your not fighing empire with a Long Rifle.

Wickerman71
15-06-2007, 17:55
yep.. put that seer up on the bell and pray your not fighing empire with a Long Rifle.

What does that have to do with any thing as the long rifle can pick him out even if he was not on a bell. Plus Bell Seers often take the Cloak that gives a 3+ Ward vs shooting the Empire player better have allot of long rifles.