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Da Boyzz
14-06-2007, 14:01
ok, chaos players out there and those who play against chaos.

In your experience which of the two perform better regularly on the field. Which are the better value for points and a better investment in an army?

I have heard many people using Dragon ogrs on this site, but on other sites most people prefer minotours, what are the thoughts of everyone?

Mad Doc Grotsnik
14-06-2007, 14:07
Well, Dragon Ogres are a lot more expensive, but do have a save, and unlike Minotaurs have no rule preventing them from overrunning.

Additionally, they are stronger, and have an extra wound, meaning they will stick around a lot longer. Give them Great Weapons, and watch them mash everything they charge!

Kerill
14-06-2007, 15:57
Well dragon ogres are powerful monsters where as a mini tour is where someone shows you around a place for a short periodn of time. Can't really compare the two.

theunwantedbeing
14-06-2007, 16:13
Minotaurs get command and are cheaper,but dont move as fast or hit as hard.

3 dragon ogres,light armour,great weapons 237pts
9 st7 ws4 attacks 14" charge
4+ save 12 wounds

4 minotaurs,great weapons 184pts
12 st6 ws4 attacks 12" charge
no save 12 wounds

A small comparison.
You can take both as they take different slots.

the1stpip
14-06-2007, 16:16
Dragon Ogres are great. I haven't had a lot of success with Minotaurs, but Dragon Ogres are great. Even if they get shot up before they reach your opponent, they will still have taken away firepower that decimate a different army...

Vogon
14-06-2007, 16:33
Go for both,

With a Doom bull you can have an all minotaur army and a unit of Dragon Ogres as your rare ;)

Vogon

EDIT having said that the Dragon Ogre models are rubbish

adivito
14-06-2007, 17:10
Both is usually a good bet, it will make an opponent focus on one and overlook the other. I personally prefer two hand weapons with minotaurs, since they have high initiative (4) for beasts, 4 attacks each and 5 for a bloodkine is nice against lightly armored or unarmored troops. The standard option on the minotaurs does let them match up better with ranked units as well. Dragon ogres with the 7 strength can be thrown at nearly anything, preferrably a flank if one is open since they usually will be down a few points to start a combat (standard, outnumber, ranks).

Example --- 4 dragon Ogres with great weapons charge 20 empire Swordsmen = 12 attacks at WS 4, say 6 hits, 5 wounds. No saves, but they still have a champion attack back. Even if there are no return wounds the combat ends 5 for ogres, and 5 for empire (standard, 3 ranks, outnumber) musician breaks tie. Dragon ogres will usually stay though. Minotaurs charge same unit = 17 ws 4 attacks, say 9 hits, 6 wounds. 2 saves made, combat ends with 5 for minotaurs, 5 for empire, same result! (but reference point costs of respective units, ogres and minotaurs)

Against a smaller number of heavily armored foes dragon ogres are the choice (4+ or better enemy saves), whereas light armor foes are where minotaurs excel (5+ or worse enemy saves) and if the minotaurs are equipped with two hand weapons. Both are very solid units for chaos.

MarcoPollo
14-06-2007, 18:46
I voted minotaurs but I thought it was close. The difference for me is cost. At the price of a Dragon ogre with great weapons, and light armor, I can almost buy a Tuskagor chariot. It is only 6 points more.

There is no question that DO are more powerful than minotaurs one on one. But, point for point. I like minotaurs just slightly more than Dragon ogres.

On the downside, minotaurs have to take the mark of the general, and are a special slot unless you have a doombul general. they also come in at str 6 with great weapons. Although not as good as st 7, you can usually find other things that can do st7 if you need.

4 wounds are nice but, the lightning thing is inconsequential in most cases. Because, I believe that chaos works best as an MSU line breaking style. Minotaurs do slightly less of a job but at a much cheaper price.

DubBot
14-06-2007, 18:59
Minotaurs are cool, but that extra " of movement has frequently made a big difference for me; plus, just every now and then someone tries to hit them with lightning - in one game this extra attack for all 4 dragon ogres meant they destroyed over 1,200 points of Skaven by themselves!

mav1971
14-06-2007, 20:12
I like both. But if I take minotaurs I give them the mark of Nurgle for the extra armor save.

sulla
14-06-2007, 21:05
I like both. But if I take minotaurs I give them the mark of Nurgle for the extra armor save.

Not always an option since you have to give them the mark of your army general :( , otherwise, I'd probably give them the mark of khorne in my army so they get the extra attack, dispel dice and most importantly, immune to psych so they don't test vs all the shooting they attract.

Häxjägare
14-06-2007, 21:27
I prefer Minotaurs, mostly because they are somewhat cheep and they can be marked. I usaly run with two units of 3 with Great Weapon and they usaly get the job done.

snurl
15-06-2007, 05:18
Dragon ogres can be a tough nut to crack.

fhelvie
15-06-2007, 05:45
Really, it depends on two things: Point level of the game and how many points I have left.

Lower point level games means I don't want to sink a large chunk of my points into one small powerhouse such as the Dragon Ogres. High point level games, however, I want to bring my A game and I have the point allowances to do it. So, bringing a midweight to a heavyweight fight doesn't make sense.

Sometimes, however, you just don't have the leftover points to float a unit of Dragon Ogres, so I'll call in my Minotaurs to fill that role of mobile ass-kickers. Truthfully, I'm rarely disappointed by either unit on the field. One just happens to place an exclamation point at each sentence while the other uses three. :-D

macbeth
15-06-2007, 09:00
And what about trolls?

They are stronger than the minotaurs, but still cheaper than the Dragon Ogres. Whatsmore, the chaos trolls have a Ld of 7, which means that they will be stupid less easily than the O&G ones...

I voted for DO, but had I the choice, I would favour the trolls...

Häxjägare
15-06-2007, 16:12
And what about trolls?

They are stronger than the minotaurs, but still cheaper than the Dragon Ogres. Whatsmore, the chaos trolls have a Ld of 7, which means that they will be stupid less easily than the O&G ones...

I voted for DO, but had I the choice, I would favour the trolls...

In my book the trolls have LD4, they had 7 in the previous book tho.

Lord Khabal
15-06-2007, 16:24
personally I go for the minotaurs. The mark of chaos undivided makes all the difference in units that 1 casualty means a panic test...
Not to mention that the DO are twice the price of a minotaur...

Fredrik
16-06-2007, 08:15
DO owns minos, all day and all of the night.... ;) Seriosly the DO with st7 and M7 and 4 W makes all the differance it is so much harder to remove that extra model often giving them full attacks in return even if teh get charged.

P.S the DO models rock.

macbeth
16-06-2007, 10:20
In my book the trolls have LD4, they had 7 in the previous book tho.

Ooops, my memory was wrong. Indeed, they are Ld4 now. But nevertheless, they still make a good bargain, IMHO.

Joewrightgm
16-06-2007, 14:44
Trolls are like anything else with stupidity; keep them close to the general with good leadership and you'll be cool.

problem gets to be, the highest LD in a pure beasts army is 8 (correct me if I'm wrong, don't have the book in front of me), which for me constitutes only a little bit better chance not to fail that LD check.

If it was a mixed Chaos army with a Mortal champion, usually haulin LD 9 or 10, I'd be totally down with throwing some decent monsters on the table to mash flanks; LD 9 or 10, I'll check LD all day on that.

Rövhalt
16-06-2007, 15:37
Beasts has a maximum of ld 9 aka Doombull. And I voted minotaurs 'cause they only take a special (me likey the spawn :evilgrin: ), are cheaper than the DO and I like them better.

mav1971
17-06-2007, 02:57
I like both. But if I take minotaurs I give them the mark of Nurgle for the extra armor save.


Not always an option since you have to give them the mark of your army general.

Your general can have the mark Undivided also.

Da Boyzz
17-06-2007, 03:02
you can still take spawn with dragon ogres;

dragon ogres = one slot
2 slaaneshi spawn = one spot.

All happy :)

night2501
17-06-2007, 05:04
well I voted dragon ogres, as a WE player, minotaurs are just shoting practice for me, whie dragon ogres, move fast and prove to be quite a treath ... but nothing you can not handle after a few games against them, so wath to chose depends on the rest of your army and stile of play, a big hint is that if you don`t have the speed to suport the dragon ogres, take the minotaurs better