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Mikari
16-06-2007, 15:04
Has any one had any luck with magic users being the general in armies?

In wood elves armies it seems to make more sense to have your general be someone who has to hide at the back with the archers as opposed to a noble of a high born who is better in combat or near the front hassling units.

So I thought I'd ask how it's worked for others and what tips they had.

ehlijen
16-06-2007, 15:48
given that the character with the highest ld score has to be the general (unless you have something race specific that changes that) it means either using a Lord level mage or no fighting heroes whatsoever. And while it certainly can be done in shooting or magic heavy armies, the loss of that extra leadership point can usually be felt in combat or when it comes to psychology.

I sometimes use a damsel as a general for my bretonnians to save points on third character, but that's a special case as only a fighting lord would actually increase my knight ld at all and peasants can use any knight's ld.

Especially for woodelves though your general does not have to fight even if he is a highborn. there's plenty of ways to make him a nasty shooter that stands back.

Most armies however either make or strongly suggest you take a wizard or for some other armies a non wizard as a general, or rely too much on the extra point of ld a fighter offers. The only ones where I can see the choice being a toss up are LM and the elves.

vampires are cool!
16-06-2007, 15:54
Arr, the wondeer of a VC armies. But yes I've found wizards great generals in my armies (None VC and Ogres). When i ran skaven my normal list contained a grey seer as army leader backed up by two engeneers and a standard bearer.

TheDarkArg
16-06-2007, 16:21
It really depends on the army, most decent leadership forces do just fine with a wizard general. Empire boys tend to suffer though. Though if you run a VC or Tzeentch list your general is a wizard by default, and they typically don't suffer the same frailties as other casters.

I've also seen Slaaneshi sorcerer lords do extremely well(daemon sword), but typically if I take a wizard lord for any army I make sure to bring a BSB because it keeps my units in the battle long enough to unleash magical hellstorms.

sun tzu
16-06-2007, 16:54
In my skaven i use a grey seer as the boss backed up by 2 w3arlock engineers and a plague preist

With my orc'z and goblin'z sometimes use a level 4 orc sharman with a goblin sharman as backup with the other 2 heros being a BSB and a black orc hero.

Both combo's work well

Bortus
16-06-2007, 17:10
I'm currently getting together a 500 O&G army and it's being led by a level 1 wizzie so I'll let you know. The only other time is when I run a magic heavy O&G army but usually just to get away from my CC heavy army.

fubukii
16-06-2007, 18:32
Ive usedd a grey seer as my general a few times, it works pretty good if you keep the postioning right on your mage and dont expose him to any unnessary danger.

RavenBloodwind
16-06-2007, 19:20
I have used a wizard lord leading my wood elves fairly frequently with excellent results. Since I don't use eternal guard I don't give up anything (stubborn EG when joined by noble/highborn). Again though, this works best with high base Ld troops.

The much hated Empire gunline is usually led by a Wizard lord and backed up by 2 or 3 level 2 casters. This is a situation in which the Ld is ignored in favor of pumping out maximum pain in the magic and shooting phases. While annoying as hell to your opponents it is frequently very effective as well.

Obvious other places (aside from the mandatory VC) where mages do well include mortal chaos, lizardmen and the other elves.

Fundamentally the dynamic of your army build will be strongly influenced by your selection of a general and a wizard-led army will need to be able to survive on its own leadership moreso than a warrior-led army.

theunwantedbeing
16-06-2007, 19:28
My DE high sorceress makes a great general.
Pegasus,Lifetaker,Wand of Kharaidron
Expensive,but quick and very capable of making a mess of things nearby.

My Chaos army works fine with a mage general,mainly as they are always decent at fighting.
Exaulted daemons at 1500pts as a singular character work very well,for the same reasons as my high sorceress,but they are more able to dish it out in combat.

I find leadership beyond 8 generally isnt nessecary,leadership 9 is nice if you can get it,but so long as you dont put yourself in a position for your leadership to be exploited its not a problem.

ie. losing combats

Da Boyzz
17-06-2007, 01:49
Yes, my Slaaneshi army runs with a Sorcerer mounted general. It works good, since chaos also genrally have higher leadership then most.

I think it would make nearly no change if i went to a fighty lord instead or magic.

ReveredChaplainDrake
17-06-2007, 02:40
A lot have mentioned the Lizards (likely the Slann primarily), and since I've used it before, I guess I'll be the first to make some comments on it.

As Oldbloods and Scar-Vets aren't really inspiring compared to Slanns (not that Cold-Blooded Saurus really need it that much...) the other really neat thing about a Slann is that it can be both a BSB and a General at the same time, which I've heard is incredibly uncommon in this game. Compared to the magic, this is what you're paying for with a Slann, not necessarily the magic. The fact that the Slann is the most owning mage in the game is just icing compared to his ability to lead through the Army Standard, a Cold-Blooded Ld9, (certain) Plaques, and opening the option for the virtually-unbreakable Temple Guard.

Basically, Oldbloods are the Lizard Lord that smashes enemies by himself. The Slann, however, can do the same thing, but is more subtle in that he enables the Saurus to do the smashy stuff for him. Pretty obscure, yes, but indispensable nonetheless.

artisturn
17-06-2007, 03:50
For Vampire Counts the general must be a wizard since the army of the undead is driven by his will and magic.
If I am playing a 2000 points or more in a game then I can bring a vampire as a general who can handle himself in battle.
But if I am playing less then 2000 points then a Necromancer must be the general who is ok at magic but sucks in battle.
I bring at least 2 magic users but if I am fighting a real shooty army then I will bring 3 spellcasters.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
17-06-2007, 09:12
I much prefur using a fighty character than a spell caster. They're not in the middle of the comotion, my army has the same/better LD and for me they die to easy. ok, so I'm not very good at protecting them, but I find highborns and nobles make much better generals for DE.

Vattendroppe
17-06-2007, 11:23
I use a flying magician as general in my 2250 pts empire. Works as a clock, with the shroud of magnus he has a 5+ ward save, practically another ward save from riding the pegasi, and he's quite harsh to catch in the first place.

sun tzu
17-06-2007, 14:58
For Vampire Counts the general must be a wizard since the army of the undead is driven by his will and magic.
If I am playing a 2000 points or more in a game then I can bring a vampire as a general who can handle himself in battle.
But if I am playing less then 2000 points then a Necromancer must be the general who is ok at magic but sucks in battle.
I bring at least 2 magic users but if I am fighting a real shooty army then I will bring 3 spellcasters.

If you are using the Necrarch bloodline then you can use a thrall as the general but it must have the 45pts bloodline power that makes him a wizard. Sorry i can't remember the name of it of the top of my head.

Dead Man Walking
17-06-2007, 17:30
Its not very fluffy, but an all goblin force can be quite strong with a level 4 Orc mage. The massive boost to leadership with the big waagh can be a devistating combo. It is also pretty tough.

Gn0b
19-06-2007, 14:43
In short, yes magical generals do a great job. My suggestion is that you protect your general by mounting him on a monster. If it is a large target then you will be able to fire over your own units into the enemy. Also, large monsters will allow you to have you mage/gen. in the center of the battle, allowing better access for spellcasting. not many opponents will want to attack a monster mounted mage.

Finnigan2004
21-06-2007, 13:55
I use daemons most of the time, so it's probably not applicable because my daemon prince is a good caster and a beast in combat. In short, yes it can work with the right general.

gortexgunnerson
23-06-2007, 12:53
In short, yes magical generals do a great job. My suggestion is that you protect your general by mounting him on a monster. If it is a large target then you will be able to fire over your own units into the enemy. Also, large monsters will allow you to have you mage/gen. in the center of the battle, allowing better access for spellcasting. not many opponents will want to attack a monster mounted mage.

Surely most armies have enough shooting/magic to hammer such a character and is just creating a huge VP gain in a soft and squishy package? In all of my games against big monster mounted by characters I have never had one reach my line and only ever had one survive the battle (GT Empire army using Gold supreme Wizard Lord, and that was because he hide behind a wood for the entire game and got very very lucky on the dice). I think low level mounts such as pegasis just make your character so targetable that they should be dead within a few turns unless they hiden awya at the back of the board).

I generally hide my wizards in my powerhouse combat units next to a fighty character who is designed as a body guard (generally auto strikes first and lots of attacks). This work well if you correctly position your wizard so not in contact with any characters

sephiroth87
23-06-2007, 16:34
I never try to have a mage as the general unless they're primarily fighters. I expect to lose them to miscasts and to opponents picking them out.

mossel
24-06-2007, 14:52
In my Wood Elf army, I have a L4 mage leading the troopse. I mainly use her since she has acces to several lores, she helps boosting my magical defence end, mainly, because the Wood Elves need this kind of back-up (at least my army does).
For Orcs and Goblins, I'd rather use a Black Orc Warboss, as his leadership and fighting abilities are useful in this army.

I think the army gegeral should be an extension to the army, not vice versa. Most armies can pull of with a mage general, but never forget, it's so painful losing your L4 general (losing the magical edge and the mass VP).

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
24-06-2007, 18:04
sorry for the off topic-ness but is there are rule stopping wizards wearing magic armour? if not, that would solve the die-easy problem...

ehlijen
25-06-2007, 05:14
I believe the rulebook states in the magic item section that you can't take magic armour, if you can't have mundane armour to begin with.

mossel
25-06-2007, 12:35
No, but when wearing armour, a mage loses it's ability to cast spells, unless stated otherwise.