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Cpt. Drill
18-06-2007, 02:53
Hi guys... I havent been here in a while. I have been playing warmaster since the release but I stopped a little while ago due to lack of gamers... I have 3000pts+ of dwarves and have played them quite extensively.
Now alot of warmaster gamers have popped up all of a sudden and I recently came into posession of a chaos army and I thought that I would try and give it a go!

I was wondering if anyone had any general advice on army construction?


The main plans I had for the army were a few units of warriors backed up by maruders some knights running armound and some harpies to cause trouble... but after that im a little lost...

As for the characters I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for something to jazz up my sorcerer model? For my general I plan to use the mounted chaos lord from the character blister pack and have him mounted on theDragon masters Dragon (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110299037&orignav=13) from warhammer. It will be quite big but I think it will look awesome having this giant dragon flying around the battle field, I am also concidering a conversion of the Beastlord with two axes and making him into a large demon prince.

Any other interesting conversion ideas would be great too!


I hope you people can help me out!

Thanks

Woudschim
20-06-2007, 12:33
I'm currently painting a chaos army for someone (see the fantasy blogs forum)
And I figured out some tactics, most importantly because the person I am painting for is going to be one of my regular opponents.

If I would build my own chaos army, 2000, points, I would include 4 units marauders, 2 units warriors of course, and only two units chaos knights. They are expensive, and very, very, very tough. I played against them only once though. I think for friendly games, too many cavarly tends to spoil the fun a bit, especially when fighting stunties, like I regularly do.

Depending on the amount of cavalry, (be it knights, marauders or hounds) the number of characters would most likely be 3 or 4, including the general, and one wizard.

on tactics, you can force a breakthrough in the enemy's army by concentrating your force, with both knights and warriors, but this leaves your army vulnerable, and a lucky shooting phase for the opponent will ruin your winning chances, by breaking your spearhead, and leaving your army in dissaray, which is a bad thing with army's consisting of not so very much units :). But depending on the terrain, an attack like that could be most succesfull, and use the marauder cavarly to protect the flanks, and keep the enemy from breaking your spearhead.

another tactic is just to grind away the opposition, as you may have done with the dwarves, who are also very resilient, disadvantage is that you do not have any cannons to dictate your opponents movement, so making very good use of terrain is essential, but that is the same with all games. When two armies are equally strong, the balance must be tipped by making strategic use of the surroundings, and of course, initiative. passive playing with chaos is a bad thing, but that is most obvious I guess.

Again, I do not have much experience with or against chaos, so most of this is just Theorymaster, but I hope it helps :)

Greetings!

Cpt. Drill
21-06-2007, 21:02
Hay thank you very much for your help!

I tried out what you said just swapped Marauder horsemen for more hounds. The game was 1500pts against dark elves and the knights were utter killers! The chaos warriors also did very very well.

I tired what I thought would be a nice combination of having the wiazrad int he middle of the enemy casting Anger of the gods (-1 command to units in 30cm) and having a unit of harpies so his whole army was at -2 command! Sadly in that turn he rolled three doubles ones and and a few threes aswell...

Pah... it failed but I imagine it could be devistating for LD9 armys!


I tried taking some spawn... I really really want these guys to be good and I do want to take some but they just seem a bit rubbish! Does anyone have any good plans involving spawn? Or any tactics?

Also in 2k I hope to have a unit of dragon ogres just because I havea cool unit made for them... but I am worried they will be a massive points sink as they are an eighth of my points in three stands.... any thoughts?


I Will keep you posted on any future games....

Thanks for the help!

Woudschim
24-06-2007, 14:44
The harpies and Anger of the Gods is very effective indeed! Really works to turn the odds in your favour!

Are dark elves your regular opponent? I never lost with them :P one of the best armies around, if used wisely, but then again, if used wisely, all armies can be the best ones around ;)

Dark riders are very effective unit killers, both in combat and in ranged shooting, I once wiped out an entire flank with them (spear chucka, 2x undead chariots and 2x undead cavalry) So be on your guard with these, Knights are effective against them, due to their armour and movement.

I have never used dragon ogres, though the models are nice enough to field them without any further reason :P
I think they are not really a must-have for the chaos army, since they are fairly hard-hitting anyway. In 2K, there is room for the more exotic army choices, so I would definately include them.

I allways try to make the armies nice to play with and against, I could for instance build a dark elf army with 6x dark riders and 4 cold one units, but that's no fun.

I don't know about spawn, they are interesting fluffwise, but 110 points for one stand with those stats looks a bit overpriced to me, add the fact that they cannot move on their own. You might want to include one or two for flavour, but don't base any major tactics around them :P


I'd love to hear about your other battles!

Cpt. Drill
28-06-2007, 17:39
Hi guys I didnt manage to play a game this week due to running into an old friend and then getting drunk... but I have started a project log on warseer if you are interested in seeing some of my chaos stuff...

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90989

Woudschim
04-07-2007, 19:11
Nice, as I said :) Keep me updated if you had another game!

Cpt. Drill
12-07-2007, 22:34
Huzzah me and some friends of mine managed to play some more warmaster!

I took part in two games this week... the first was a 1000pts three way where we had to capture the middle of the board which was a magic hill or something!? But to cut it short my chaos knights charge and hit with three of fifteen attacks! They lost... The next round they hit with one out of twelve!!!

The game went badly I killed the dwarf army but those sneaky dark elves which held back managed to sweep in and take victory!




The second game was alot better with 1500pts of chaos squaring up against the newly expanded dark elf army!

Our infantry sqaured off against each other in the newly dubbed 'death valley' a part of the board with great flank protection and wide enough for our infantry to fit through... sadly the gap never closed and neither groups saw combat that game! the other side was alot more messy... with the dark elf cold ones charging the chaos knights and being repelled and warriors killing a hydra!

To much amusement my foe blundered three times during the game so he had a leadership 8 general and had to execute his hero (which worked out for the best because the hero commanded the knights which were dead at this point... a high price for that heros failure!)

The game was a win in the end only losing a unit of knights and a unit of maruders! I really rate cav, hounds and knights are really very good also harpies cannot be overlooked!


Soon we will be starting a campaign using the new hexagonal tiles for the mighty empires map set thingy. We are still working out a system and some interesting rules to use... any ideas from people would be nice!

ps. I have done a minour update on my painting and modelling thread if you would like to see some pics of my warhost!
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90989

Woudschim
13-07-2007, 16:05
Sounds great! Dark elves and bad luck, horrible combination :P

Im thinking about picking up the Mighty Empires tiles, they seem very interesting, especially since we both have 3000 points armies.

azraelezekiel
13-07-2007, 16:40
I love dragons.
Here is my general/dragon conversion for my Khornate chaos force
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN4311.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN4309.jpg

I may post a blog for a few of my armies elsewhere on this site.

Cpt. Drill
18-07-2007, 13:28
Hay guys I was hoping to write a battle report this week but as things turned out I wasnt able to photograph our game.... But I played one anyway!

It was 1000pts against my very own dwarf army using chaos... and to say things went badly is an understatement!

My opponent had never used dwarves befor but his initial deployment was very very good! rangers paired off against my cav and his warriors and warmachines facing my warriors! his great deployment combined with my general failing to issue orders to anyone ment bad things happened! I also had crippling luck when his dwarf warriors charged my chaos warriors I failed 12 4+ saves in the first round of combat!

It was definatly a game where I learnt some valuable lessons especially to do with characters....

Next week I should be abl to post a real battle report which win or lose will be the start of the 'Chronicles of Angor'

Woudschim
19-07-2007, 07:36
Great!

You seem too have an awefull dose of bad luck isn't it?
Dwarves can be very frustrating to fight. A lot of war engines means that they can dictate your movement, and get you where they want you, and fight those 4 hits, 4+ As warriors.

You should try to play 1500 points at least by the way.
A 1000 points battle can be over before you know it, due to one (un)lucky charge. with 1500 you have just enough points to have a working army. But of course, 2000+ points is the best :)

Cpt. Drill
19-07-2007, 11:20
We were playing 1000pts because I weas lazy and couldnt be bothered to carry 1500pts of chaos and 1500pts of dwarves.... (I am a lazy general!)

The next time hopefully we will have a bigger game! 1500pts is always nicer than 1000... also next time there might be pics!

Lord Lucifer
19-07-2007, 14:05
Soon we will be starting a campaign using the new hexagonal tiles for the mighty empires map set thingy. We are still working out a system and some interesting rules to use... any ideas from people would be nice!

I'm currently running/playing a campaign using the rules from WarMag issue somethingorother.
Still got the pdf that used to be up on the Specialist Games page, I figure they probably removed it because of the release of the NotMighty Empires campaign system.

If you want I can send you a copy. It's real simple, runs like a dream :)

wmchaos2000
18-10-2007, 23:44
Hello.
This is an old thread, I know, but people discussing WMChaos is always interesting to join in on.
I have played Chaos since 2002 and have tried a lot of different combinations in my 2000p army, but I have ended up with a few "always-have-to-have" units.
4 Chaos Hounds is a must. These make your break rise and they are the best in a lot of missions. For one they are the best cannonfodder you can have. Fast, expandable and under the right circumstances, a very good flank charger. Another good use is when 1 unit is brigaded with 1 unit of Chariots. This is a VERY good kamikaze brigade to use on the enemies flanks and to hunt down his flank troops.
2 Harpies is another must. These babies will flank-charge almost anything on the table, just if in the right position and in the right angle. Of course, they are masters on hunting down enemy artillery. And after performing one of the above actions, they will end up behind or beside enemy lines and there cause the -1 Command penalty, as mentioned in this thread previously.
For the four compulsory units I used to add one DragonOgre unit, but this proved to be too many points in one casket. Yes, they got their work done, but 250p for one unit? That is to much. Instead 1 Ogre, 1 Warrior and 1 Marauder has proven to be an excellent brigade. Marauders for cannonfodder and for supporting the other two when they have charged. Even Dwarf Warriors on hills will retreat from this combo charge.
Another excellent brigade is the big H. 2 Knights side by side, flanked by 2 Hounds in snake formation, on each side. No long range shooting will penetrate this in the first turn.
I have tried 4 Knight units with 4 Hounds, two H brigades. But this was very vulnerable to failed orders and evil enemy magic. Instead I went for the Chariots, which almost always is a "fear factor" for the opponent.
The Marauder Horsemen on the other hand has not worked well for me. So they are out of work these days. :)
Spawns are way to expensive compared to their usefullness. Maybe put in a infantry brigade, just for their Terror causing ability. But otherwise, no. A Hero on Dragon with SwordOfMight will do the same trick, and he is usefull in a lot of other ways aswell.
Thatīs it for now, feel free the give me a feedback on my tactics.
Best regards /Ola

Cpt. Drill
03-12-2008, 16:06
It may seem that I am turning my attention to the unholy powers of undead... But no, I am merely attemting to revive my old chaos army from the dead!


I have been browsing the online warmaster scene more and more online recently and it has fired up my passion once again like so many times befor! With this in mind i decided I am re-opening my old army blog in an attempt to fill the dull weeks leading up to christmas (and potentially more models) by setting myself a time limit to finish the army. Which will be christmas day! If i succeed I will purchase some Bloodletters and Daemonettes to complete my selection of Demon based marauders to take to the field,. Also I will pick up that dragon masters dragon I have had my eyes on for so long!

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90989

So I will keep most of my painting and modellying updates exclusive to the blog, but you lucky people will get to see the ups and downs of battle as i continue THE CHARONICLES OF ANGOR THE BLACK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0005.jpg

This is what I have befor me to paint!
8 Untouched units and 2 basically done units! Lets call in 9?

So I have three weeks effectively to paint these guys in order to get my presents so any help or support you good warmasters can offer would be very welcome!

I have a game schedualed for next week against the old Dark elves who are forever harrasing my boarders... I hope to have some updates on how its going befor then, at the worse I will have some pictures of the battle and you can all bask in ANGOR THE BLACK's glory! (Maybe)

Pugwash
09-12-2008, 23:35
Hi Folks


Nice army Cpt. Drill, some really unique features that makes my mortal chaos feel cookie cutter commmon!

On Chaos tactics;


I have found leaderhsip to be a big problem. My current thinking is to only have 4-5 brigades in a 2k game and group them closely together for support and so as to use the general for most ordering.

I regularly play against High Elves, and have come to realise that their LD10 effectively means that they are just much more mobile. They will almost always get off the first charge and/or be able to rapidly redeploy their shooting to maximum effect (he brigades 2 boltthrowers and 2 archers together usually, resulting in 18 shots hitting on 3+), which means that at least one brigade in my army wears a flank charge by Silver Helms/Chariots and the terror causing Dragon (ouch -2 attacks and he also casts a light of battle with his 2 mages each getting a free re-roll to add insult to injury) or gets shot to bits.:cries:

Now assuming I can actually get off more than one order in a turn (not always a sure thing) I can try to redirect his shooting into my harpies ('cos assuming he doesn't wipe them out entirely, hopefully he can't roll over 100cm on the drive back) or I kiss goodbye to a marauder unit as their fellows hurl them forward to soak the High Elf fire - he can definately roll over 20cm on drive back!

The flip side is that assuming he does commit to the fight, after butchering my initial brigades, he is usually vulnrable to the counter charge. I can handle being shot to pieces with panic fire if I get to smash the shooters in combat, or even better, flank charge his silver helms with chaos kinghts or chariots.

Now, because I usually take at least 2 chaos knights, chariots and a scorceror on dragon, my break point is pretty low - so while I may actually be able to turn the fight because of superior chaos killing power, it is usually too late as between my sacrificial units and his counter charges, I have broken and the game is over.

So, I have come to the conclusion that the front brigades need to be entirely expendible, but have enough of a saving throw and combat power to not be an easy kill. A block of 3 marauders seems to fit the bill, they will die horribly, but might take a couple of stands of attacking units with them. They are dangerous enough that if they can't just be ignored.

If I had the models I'd do this twice, so for less than 400 points I have a big wedge of guys who must be dealt with. Then support them with brigades containing knights, chariots and possibly chaos warriors accompanied by dragon ogres.

I am not sure about chaos hounds, I see what people say about incresing break points, but they are also so very fragile in combat (or being shot at). While they are cheap they die fast and thus can rapidly increase you break point. I might try including some again, brigaded behind the real cavalry, and do my level best to keep them from the fight. Perhaps use them to crossfire units I have flank charged to get the auto-destroy, which is more or less how I've been using marauder cavalry.

Anycase, my ramblings are probably only relevant if facing the wicked High Elves, I don't think Dark Elves get the +1 for shooting, magic re-roll, 100cm instant terror causer, or chariots.

Cpt. Drill
10-12-2008, 13:44
Huzzah I managed to get a battle in! It was against my old foe the darkelves and was alot of fun, some really close moments and the game ended with a huge combat with all remaining characters on the board involved! (it was that close)

My Army was:

Angor the Black, Chaos General with the Sword of might 135p

Tzzz'arzzz Sorcerer 90p

Sharky (the Ogre) Hero 80p

Two units of Chaos warriors 300p

Two units of Marauders 120p

Two untis of Hounds 60p

A single Unit of Ogres 105p

A Unit of Harpies 65p

Two units of chariots 190p

A unit of mighty Dragon Ogres (Chaos warbeasts) 250p


And my foes army was:
General
Hero
Sorceress
3 Units of spearmen
2 Units of Repeater crossbowmen
2 Units of Dark Riders
2 Units of Cold one Knights
1 War hydra
1 Unit of Hapies
1 Unit of Witchelves
1 Repeater bolt thrower


Sadly I forgot to charge my camera so I didnt get any photos, but I will play some more games very soon and be able to get some pics then!

The board we played on was very cool and we were using some 40k apocolypse craters wich were massive compared to the tiny people. There was also a huge castle which gave the impression we were fighting in the chaos/dark elf wastes somewhere!

The game was very balance and apart from my general passing no orders ever (slight exaggeration) and my opponents passing anything he was told to order! But my hero Sharky consistantly rolled double 1's so he did most of the ordering for me (That guy is the real hero!)

There were some hairy combats such as chariots destroying a few units in a turn of power then they were quickly crushed and seeing my Warbeasts getting destroyed by Coldones was upsetting. Oh and my hounds getting machine gunned... The main fight of the game was in the final turn when my chaos warriors were able to charge his infantry, the match up was two units of warriors with my General and wizard joining one unit of warriors and my hero in the other against three units of spear men and a war hydra. Tzzz'arzzz was able to cast Frenzy fo chaos when it counted and I got to go in with an additional 7attacks with one unit of warriors.
All I can say is that I constantly underestimate chaos warriors because they are infantry but they always do so well! (you maybe be saying that 4 attacks and hits aswell as a 4+ save that should be obvious) These guys are heros I cant wait till I have two brigades in my army like this one!

I manage to snatch victory from the game and much fun was had all round, Im hope to get some photos up next time so keep an eye out!



My army painting is also going well I have completed four of my nine unit target so all is looking good so come over to my blog and leave a comment! I need all the support I can get!
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90989


Would be nice to see some of the other warmaster armies that are getting worked on out there aswell!


Take it easy guys and may Angor be with you...

Pugwash
10-12-2008, 22:55
Would be nice to see some of the other warmaster armies that are getting worked on out there aswell!

Well, I might set up a post for my empire here, but if you want to see my chaos in action against the cursed High Elves, I've posted three battle reports with pictures at www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php (under specialist games/Warmaster)

Cpt. Drill
14-12-2008, 15:56
Nice army! I really enjoyed the battle reports, you have an entertaining way of narrating the battles!

I am sure lots of people on here would like to see more of your work!

Pugwash
15-12-2008, 00:23
Thanks Cpt. Drill, I'll cross post my Warmaster Empire painting log to the appropriate page for now, and see how we go!

Interested in any chaos feedback folks want to provide; My next game against the wicked elves is this weekend (21st) and my list is currently as follows (split into starting brigades)

3 Marauders
1 Ogres

2 Chaos Warriors
1 Dragon Ogres

2 Chaos Knights
2 Chaos Hounds

2 Chos Chariots

Harpies

General, Sorceror on Dragon, Hero.

My plan is to catapult the marauders brigade forward with 2 orders, and use the second order to split them in half, and stagger them to prevent having any overun charges.


Then (more than 10cm) behind one of them I will have the chaos warriors and dragon ogres (accompanied by dragon), and behind the other the chaos knights with hounds hiding behind them.

I figure I will probably loose the 4 units at the front either to shooting, combat or both, but then hopefully be able to get of some crushing charges. Have the bulk of the fighting done by my warriors and knights, and keep the chariots ready to counter charge the expected elf cavalry counter charge. My main weakness is that after the front brigade dies, I can only take 3 more units killed before breaking. I am somewhat limited by the models I own here...

Cpt. Drill
15-12-2008, 11:25
I have found that with chaos having two units of warriors supported by two units of marauders to be very sucessful!

Possibly try sending them in first with the brigade looking like this and supporting units.

warriors warriors warriors warriors warriors warriors
marauders marauders marauders marauders marauders marauders



knights knights knights knights knights knights



chariots chariots chariots chariots chariots chariots

This way if you do get a charge it will be alot better! Also if they are going to kill this brigade then you will definatly be able to take down at least a few stands! After that send the knights into whatever destroyed the brigade (probably silver helms or chariots I imagine) then finally if they counter attack your knights and destroy them send in the chariots as your final attack! This way you can keep your chariots at the back out of danger and they will be more likely to get a destructive charge!

Pugwash
15-12-2008, 12:46
Thanks for the suggestion. I agree regarding the chariots and knights, and do plan to do this.

I've found that he initially will throw in a unit into my front, then silver helms + dragon into my flank, so using your diagram he would usually do:

__________Spearmen
__________Spearmen
Silver Helms Spearmen
Silver Helms warriors warriors warriors warriors warriors warriors
Silver Helms marauders marauders marauders marauders marauders marauders
Dragon

Then he would just roll across the flanks fighting one stand in the flank each time, giving them -1 attack for flank hit and -1 attack for the stand fighting the dragon due to terror. So in Round 1 he'd have 15 attacks for the Silver Helms, 8 for the Dragon, and say 4 for the spearmen (a total of 27 attacks+1 static bonus) versus my 2 warriors in the front, normally 8 attacks -1 for flank, and 1 marauder, normally 3 attacks -2 for flank and terror (a total of 8 attacks back at him). 27 plays 8 means likely a big win, push back, lap around then rinse and repeat until the brigade is dead.

Optionally he rapidly moves up his shooting brigade (2 bolt throwers and 2 archers) and arranges them to split fire on the front units - which are the warriors on your diagram and unloads 9 shots on each unit, hitting on 3+. I will likely lose a stand of warriors, then fall back, potentially confusing the marauders behind. If I can't save at least 50% of the hits he may well roll well enough to destroy the entire unit. Either he breaks up the brigade, possibly confuses my guys, and means I have some nasty penalties to order any warriors that survive due to m ssing stands. All that with no fighting back. If I then, somehow, manage to get of the charge with my marauders using initiative, he'll obliterate them with the panic fire.

That's why I believe that the front brigade must be entirely expendible, and break up as soon as possible to make it harder to 'advance' charge into other units.

Looking something like this

Marauders Ogres
Marauders Ogres
Marauders Ogres
___________________Marauders Marauders
___________________Marauders Marauders
___________________Marauders Marauders

This reduces my confusion issue from shooting drive backs, means that he has to shoot at one, unless he engages the other in combat, and when flank charged I get 3 stands fighting back. These guys will die:skull:, but hopefully they'll take a stand with them!

Cpt. Drill
15-12-2008, 13:32
To protect your main units have some thing to distract the silver helms and the dragon... this could be down with a pair of infantry units just to absrbe the over run.

Alternitivley why not just use his own tactic against him. Try and get your reserve units to charge his knights who flanked you... Counter charges are very important I find! (also the imfamous counter-counter-charge! as you get to smash their unit that they saved to smash your unit... if that makes sense?)

Befor you make the big push forwards with your infantry block try and bring your hounds up to absorbe the fire. It will be horrible for them as they have no save and will inevitably die brutally but it will save your warriors! Also I have found that a unit of harpies and a sorcerer can cause alot of problems to peoples plans... With Anger of the Gods witht he penalty for the harpies being within 20cm even the High Elf leadership 10 will suffer!


I have to say that I do hate High Elves, they are really good and their shooting is broken!


I dont think I could suggest anything else that I havent read in your preveous battle reports... just good luck!

Rufus_Shinra
15-12-2008, 17:37
Do I smell "High Elves are broken!!" threads in the Warmaster air?))))

azraelezekiel
15-12-2008, 18:21
I love quotes like this 'Do I smell "High Elves are broken!!" threads in the Warmaster air?))))'
Why are they?
No more so than :-
Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, Daemons, Skaven etc.
Every army in warmaster has it's strengths and weaknesses.
That is the fun of the game.

Yes High Elves have great shooting and great magic, but I have seen them go down against many different armies. You just have to figure out how to beat them.

First army I ever got was Tomb Kings, that was 3 years ago and after 15 games never won a fight. To the point it was going on eBay! Then the other week something just clicked. After 3 complete massacres of dwarves, high elves and chaos my regular opponent now refuses to play against them ;)

Same goes for High Elves, they are a very strong shooting & magic force but they can be beaten. A good way to approach it is to think about how you would play High Elves against Chaos.

The people who moan about broken armies are those who normally frequent the playtest group: warmasterplaytest@gmail.com
All are welcome.

Rufus_Shinra
15-12-2008, 18:50
Oh, man, I never moan, I just stopped playing FB for the reasons of disbalance(I play Empire in FB too). The second reason was that FB is not the wargame of big battles, but of small ones. Heroes, items and individual figures matter really much.

It seems that GW's advertising is always one step bigger in terms of battle size - the call the mob-fights of FB big battles, and warmaster medium-sized battles grand and epic)))

azraelezekiel
15-12-2008, 21:01
But there is no imbalance just individual quirks. ;)
Seriously though, if you want to get involved in shaping the game drop a mail to the address.
Currently under discussion are new lists for:
wood elves, beasts of chaos and a dwarf slayer list :)

Rufus_Shinra
15-12-2008, 21:16
Are you sure? Something will be done for Warmaster in a couple of years? I thought I was starting a dead game!)

azraelezekiel
15-12-2008, 22:00
Why do you think I am painting a wood elf army :)
If you have a regular playing group, get signed up.

Pugwash
15-12-2008, 22:35
Alternitivley why not just use his own tactic against him. Try and get your reserve units to charge his knights who flanked you... Counter charges are very important I find! (also the imfamous counter-counter-charge! as you get to smash their unit that they saved to smash your unit... if that makes sense?)

Well, yes I do counter-charge, although usually he has wiped out the bridage and fallen back 3D6cm and reformed. I can inflict some pretty big hits, but then he counter charges (with chariots +dragon) and can usually get enough to win the game there.

So in the (combat) example I gave you he just took out four of your units, for the loss, at best of a stand or two. Yes the dragon+Silver Helms+Spearmen will then be somewhat vulnerable (assuming you can get an order off), and if you commit a decent brigade you might get all 3, but he is still at least 4 units off breaking and can then counter charge to take out what units you have sent to attack that brigade, I would think at least 2-3? Meaning you have lost 6-7 already, not factoring in shooting.


Before you make the big push forwards with your infantry block try and bring your hounds up to absorbe the fire. It will be horrible for them as they have no save and will inevitably die brutally but it will save your warriors! Also I have found that a unit of harpies and a sorcerer can cause alot of problems to peoples plans... With Anger of the Gods witht he penalty for the harpies being within 20cm even the High Elf leadership 10 will suffer!

Yeah, if I were him I'd just throw Eagles or possibly Reavers into the hounds during the movement phase, making them ineligible to be shot at, then shoot your warriors unit to pieces and probably beat the hounds in combat! (12 attacks and you have no save, so say 6 hits on average vs 9 attacks and he has a save, so 2-3 hits, you're going to pop pretty quick).

I don't know if I'm saying I think the Elves are broken, they have some wicked combo's but chaos is pretty nasty in a fight. The elves only really have good offense, but they can't really stop a charge (except with panic fire - seriously I've lost multiple units of warriors trying to take out those bolt throwers!). The last two games I had him within 1-2 units of breaking and with better luck from orders could have pulled out a win. It's just figuring out how to crack this particular nut with the tools available. On the plus side, I just realised that he can't cast that 'unit shoots twice' spell on his bolt throwers, which he's been doing a lot.

The games play like they should, the chaos horde advances, the chaff get peppered with fire, but their power and ferociousness threaten to overwhelm the elves until they pull out a last ditch effort with their vaunted knights and chariots. If we played the game past army break points, I don't think there'd be many elves sailing home alive.

Cpt. Drill
16-12-2008, 11:20
Do I smell "High Elves are broken!!" threads in the Warmaster air?))))

I dont know if they are broken.... Just they have every kind of unit in the game - Medium Infantry, Heavy cav, Flyers, terror heroes, chariots, (awesome) shooters and artillary. This combine with leadership 'do whatever you like' 10.

This makes them deadly and terrifying to fight... but still so many times my chaos warriors have just ground down those puny elf infantry (cav is a different matter)




Well, yes I do counter-charge, although usually he has wiped out the bridage and fallen back 3D6cm and reformed. I can inflict some pretty big hits, but then he counter charges (with chariots +dragon) and can usually get enough to win the game there.

Ahh the accursed counter-counter-charge!

All I can say is that you need to try and be the one who gets the first charge in... so he has to counter with his chariots and dragon then you counter charge them... that way he should be loosing 5-6 units if all goes well. Then you just have to bag a final few units to get the break point!





Yeah, if I were him I'd just throw Eagles or possibly Reavers into the hounds during the movement phase, making them ineligible to be shot at, then shoot your warriors unit to pieces and probably beat the hounds in combat! (12 attacks and you have no save, so say 6 hits on average vs 9 attacks and he has a save, so 2-3 hits, you're going to pop pretty quick).

Yeah hounds are pretty fragile, hopefully you can block LoS with the combat but still... that plan isnt a game winner.... possibly split the unit of hounds? so he charges one... which you will lose but the other will then have to take the hits?

Im just trying to think of a way to get a bullet screen...

In turn try fighting a battle on the extreme flank have knights, chariots and hounds all advanceing on the flank with the chaos warriors, marauders and dragon ogres sat in the centre of your deployment zone... so either he will advance on your infantry or redeploy to fight the cav... This is just theory but I have done similar things and it all gets very messy but it does get results!




The games play like they should, the chaos horde advances, the chaff get peppered with fire, but their power and ferociousness threaten to overwhelm the elves until they pull out a last ditch effort with their vaunted knights and chariots. If we played the game past army break points, I don't think there'd be many elves sailing home alive.

You should give a deathmatch a whirl... its very entertaining! Especially when you are trying to order you single stand of hounds to flank charge thair last stand of archers or something similar!

If you are going to give that a whirl I suggest holding onto one unit of knights or something for mopping up! As most units will come out of the game crippled and you need something to deal with them whithout just ordering a few stads here and there!

These games are not very sensible but if you want to add an extra bit of time to your game it is definatly fun to try as a bit of variation!

Pugwash
17-12-2008, 05:21
All I can say is that you need to try and be the one who gets the first charge in... so he has to counter with his chariots and dragon then you counter charge them... that way he should be loosing 5-6 units if all goes well. Then you just have to bag a final few units to get the break point!

It's a nice idea in theory. But unless he botches his orders, and I get real lucky on mine, I don't think it's happening. The mexican stand off plan (I've tried) is a tough ask, given his shooting, and the Dragon+eagles combo to pick of stragglers then home-back. There's noting worse than having units killed and still being 2+moves away from any kind of charge!


I dont know if they are broken.... Just they have every kind of unit in the game - Medium Infantry, Heavy cav, Flyers, terror heroes, chariots, (awesome) shooters and artillary. This combine with leadership 'do whatever you like' 10.

Yeah, it amazes me how much 1 pip of difference makes, but then I'm sure Orc'n'Goblin players look enviously at Chaos Leadership. A part of me thinks that it might be nice if all generals had the same LD score (giving the high elves improved shooting and magic is surely enough), but perhaps generals had different comand ranges to reflect the quality of their leadership...:p


Im just trying to think of a way to get a bullet screen...

Yeah, trust me - I've tried. problem will always be that he gets to move/charge before shooting which means (with that high LD) he really should be able to shoot whatever brigade he wants (with 3 orders that shooting brigade can get just about anywhere). The only question is; what will be the cost to him (i.e. moving the shooters too close, or risking a countercharge by engaging my 'screens'. Personally I think marauders are the best screen because they have the 5+ save, present a challenge in combat, and are the equal least effective chaos unit on the charge. Hounds are cheaper, but when playing army break points that is no real bonus.

Thanks for the imput Cpt. Drill, I'll let you know what my next grand plan is, but I think that both me and my opponent are improving our skill level with each game, so like most sports, it's really about who gets better faster!

Cpt. Drill
19-12-2008, 23:52
Just a minour update to say that I have finished another four units for my army!

Some chariots some hounds and finally my chaos warbeasts!


I only have two more units and some touch ups on some characters and the army will be ready for a few units of new toys! Then it will be complete!

One thing thought... what do people think of trolls? Personally im not a big fan but I was thinking of getting some just for the sake of completion for the army... and I guess that they could be good on the counter attack... if they are using their iniative to charge!?

Also for games over 2k should I have a second unit of harpies? I am unsure if I would need them also im not overly fussed about painting another unit... they are a little bland...


Well thats about it... 5 days left to get it finished!

azraelezekiel
20-12-2008, 08:17
I got trolls for completeness and have never played them.
Same with the harpies, If I know I am facing asrtillery I take maximum amount, if not I leave them.

Pugwash
04-01-2009, 23:43
Hi all, and happy new year and so forth,

Just a quick note to say I finally managed to pull out a win with my Chaos horde last night:D Playing against Tomb Kings, I held half of may army in reserve and advanced with just 2 bridages (marauders + 2 warriors & 2 Knights + mounted marauders). The infantry brigade were trampled and destroyed by chariots, but the chaos knights then proved their worth, wiping out the chariots, bolt throwers, bone giant bodyguard and some cav, although they were then almost obliterated to a man by a brigade of skeleton cav + Sphynx + 3 characters + raised skeletons, while on the other flank, after advancing all the way into my deployment zone, the skeleton infantry took some big losses from chariots. I managed to break 11 units (his army break) in exchange for 5, although it was very close and we ran for 6 full turns with a great deal of manouver and falling back.

Next game I'll try and get some pictures and do a proper battle report.

Cpt. Drill
05-01-2009, 08:08
Congratulations friend!


Its good to hear that your army has gotton a win!


Also It appears that your opponent was using a counter-counter-charge attack! Im suprised he failed to achieve victory with these most deadly of moves.

Would be good to see pictures of the next one!

Pugwash
05-01-2009, 23:35
Its good to hear that your army has gotton a win!


Yeah, tell me about it! Now if I can just beat those elves!


Also It appears that your opponent was using a counter-counter-charge attack! Im suprised he failed to achieve victory with these most deadly of moves.


me too, particularly given how many units he had :)
With only ordinary general leadership he wasn't as able to make 3+ moves with a silver helms brigade from across the table to get off the counter-counter charge as he does with his elves - which helped, also, even on the charge and with skeletons raised in support, the undead are pretty limp against chaos, although that 'stop-you-from-charging' spell cast 4-5 times a turn gets pretty tiresome..

Crucially, even if he had wiped 'em out he still would have been 2 units off breaking my army, that was the difference. Against the elves I don't really have the luxury of choosing to hold units back because he can manouver to shoot or charge anywhere he wants. I even forgot to do initiative charges in one critical turn, failed my general's command, and failed (blundered) the Orb re-roll which probably would have cost me the game against the elves, but he simply couldn't do more than butcher one unit of mounted marauders with the undead.

Rufus_Shinra
05-01-2009, 23:35
And as for me I scored a great win against Chaos last night!
With the power of Sigmar of course.

The battle was pretty stupid - we both failed command tests on the flanks, and it came to chaos' advance with the knights in the center. The 2 good old chaos knights units, one with the banner of shielding, and with the General, attacked my 3 units of knights with the same banner and the general.
Through several painful rounds of hard combat, and crazy dice rolls, I won))))
So long to Sigmar.

Pugwash
05-01-2009, 23:44
Contrats Rufus_Shinra!

Beating shielded chaos knights is no easy task, although I'm surprised he sent his general into the fight. Contemplating playing Empire for the first time, I'm wondering where I can get that solid 15-attacks-on-the-charge punch from without chaos knights or chariots, so it's good to know that the empire knights can make up for quality with quantity :)

My experience of warmaster thus far seems to indicate that the key to winning to is absolutely butcher the units you charge, by attacking the front, flank and rear if possible, then adding characters (esp if on a dragon) to really seal the deal. Flying units seem particularly well suited to jumping into the flank or dropping behind a fight to guarantee victory - then home back to get ready to jump into the next fight (High Elf dragon in the flank anyone?), even chaos knights struggle against a bridage bash including a flank charge with terror causers. Just make sure that you're prepared for the infamous counter-counter charge!

Cpt. Drill
06-01-2009, 08:44
Its good to hear about so many games going on!

Now if you guys were able to post a few battle reports here and there that would be even better!

Rufus_Shinra
07-01-2009, 15:13
The only real problem is photos, otherwise it's cool.
I should get my camera!

Pugwash
07-01-2009, 22:36
Yep, I plan on doing some more photo battle reports soon, but at the moment have to suspend warmaster stuff as have a big WFB tournment looming, for which I need to paint and practise. Look for a battle report or two from me in Feb.

Cpt. Drill
04-02-2009, 12:38
Okay guys... i finally managed to play a game when I had a camera with me! (oh it had battery this time too)

I wasnt sure how much detail to go into... Hopefully I will get a few more of these up in the future, so if I sound like Rimmer please say so!

It was a bit of a rushed game as we didnt have much time... some of the photos are a little out of focus! But you mget the jist of whats going on!



Battle against Dark elves!

I was playing an old friend of mine Luke with his evil dark elves, I was using my chaos because they are super cool.

His army consisted of
1 general
1 sorceress
1 hero
3 spearmen
2 repeater Xbow men
2 cold one knights
2 dark riders
1 Repeater bolt thrower
1 witch elves
1 harpies

The forces of Angor the Black consisted of...

1 Angor the black (general)
1 Arzzz'zzzee (Sorcerer... what ever his name was)
1 Sharkey (hero my beloved ogre)
2 Chaos warriors
2 Maruaders
2 Chariots
2 hounds
1 Chaos knights
1 Dragon ogres (warbeasts)
1 Harpies


The board had a few random epic scale buildings on it and some 40k armageddon craters (its all we could muster!). We deployed Luke had his infantry in the center Dark riders and Xbowmen on the right flank and Repeater bolt thrower and cold ones on the left.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0101.jpg

(by the way I always refer to flanks from my perspective of the battle field apart from when introducing my army which is done from lukes)
I had Infantry in the center Hounds on my right flank and my dragon ogres back up by chariots and my knights were on the left flank.
(first time I have ever appeared on warseer! In lovable rouge form... its me!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0102.jpg


Luke chose first turn and began nicely, his whole right flank flew forwards with the help of hiz wizard, his hero failed to order anything on the left flank and his infantry rolls towards mine. His harpies also land square behind my line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0103.jpg


My go went less good, Sharky ran the hounds up on the right flank. My wizard failed at life , and Angor managed to get the infantry to roll towards lukes and get my harpies to hop behind his, sadly they didnt charge...

My wizard tried to cast anger the god in the center of his army but failed...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0105.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0104.jpg

Lukes turn 2 saw his wizard fail to order his Xbowsand his hero fail to order his left flank.Hiz general managed to make three orders moving Dark riders and the Repeater bolt thrower up all on a roll of 10 (9 for the second bolt thrower move) But if my damn wizard had of got anger the gods I could have locked him down that turn... sigh.

His Dark riders destroyed a unit of hounds scoring 8 hits and rolling something close to 40 for drive back! It was sore... but hounds always die... so who cares!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0106.jpg


In my turn my harpies initiative charged his (which we had both forgotton about) My hero failed to move the hounds who were about to recive instant death. My sorcerer failed to issue anything... Angor managed to roll the infnatry forwrd once again although I doubt he saw what came next comming.... Wizard successfully anggered the gods!

My harpies killed his... ha!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0107.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0108.jpg

Lukes turn three! Hiz infantry iniative charged mine! (daring I thought) He also managed to order his Xbowmen and repeater bolt thrower forward... his hero still kept failing to move the hydra or the coldones! In the shooting phase he drove my support back (Eep!) His shot at my hounds and did 8 hits to them and drove them back to the board edge... Just survived! There was a gory combat with me loosing 3 stands of chaos warriors and luke losing a unit of dark elves and a unit of spear men.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0112.jpg

In my dissapointing turn... I charge his inf but retreated the lone chaos warrior stand...all my heros failed all orders that turn... Apart from sharky who managed to move the dargon ogres forward slightly! so not to much else happened...

My charging infantry two stand of chaos warriors and two units of maraduers were destroyed by two units of dark elf spearmen... When I rolled 12 attacks I was scoring on average 4 or less hits...

Things were looking bleak I was 2 units from my break point and there was a unit of damaged warriors and a single stand of hounds infront of a line of dark riders!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0113.jpg

Lukes turn Four... He sent his dark riders to hunt down my hounds and brought his Xbow men to fight my army... His hero managed to get the hydra to roll forwards but his cold ones wernt going anywhere!

He shot and killed the hounds and fired at my dfragon ogres but they shrugged off the worse of it. (1 unit from my break!)

no combats...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0114.jpg

My turn 4... So I knew I had to be daring this go I had to kill four units without losing any. Luckily luke had move towards my lines so it didnt matter that my heavy hitting stuff that had failed to move hadnt moved. Angor must hav gotton boared as he ordered the harpies into his Bolt throwers the War beasts into his injured spearmen and the knights into his xbows.

As this was my make or break turn I threw characters into combat for those few extra attacks...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0115.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0117.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0118.jpg

the cambats were hard fought The harpies lost a stand flying into combat but with their 10 attacks (including characters) They killed the bolt throwers without too much trouble! (One unit down) My Wrbeasts smashed the two units of spearmen (both were injured already) And then they over ran to join the knights fighting the xbowmen (3 units down!) also due to movement the sorceress had to join the Xbows) With a final clenching of teeth and buttocks and managed to kill the cross bows and sorceress with the combined might of Dragon ogres and Knights!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0118.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/tomandjoe/DSC_0119.jpg

Luke scored no hits int hat combat... I managed to snap this picture to remember it!

Huzzah the game was over... Luke was forced to withdraw, I had managed to scrape a minour victory with about 265 VPs


It was a cool game but I made so few orders in it... maybe about 6? over 4 turns...

Luke and I have a running competition as apparently one on one he has never defeated me... so he only needs to get lucky once to break it! (Not yet though)



Hope you all enjoy! I will probably be playing again next week if you want more!?

MizzMolly
16-02-2009, 22:27
Cool I need more players