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vorin
18-06-2007, 03:22
Hello all -

It's been awhile since I have posted! Anyway, my question to the dwarf players out there is whether or not they use strollaz in conjunction with the anvil.

Basically, is strollaz worth taking if you don't take the anvil? Or do these two generally run in tandem, giving the best one two punch? Do the dwarf players believe there are more effective options then strollaz?

I seem to prefer or more movement friendly dwarven army. While I don't mind hunkering down and waiting for the enemy to come to me, I just seem to have more fun actually moving the army up aggressively.

And if you do take strollaz and or strollaz/anvil, do you go very heavy on artillery? Since you are moving your army up the field as quickly as dwarfs can get up the field, is artillery weakened by having fewer opportunities to soften up units?

What do you guys think?

Thanks

Dead Man Walking
18-06-2007, 13:14
I have yet to play with an anvil, I just dont like anything that costs that much and can blow itself up.

I field an all marching dwarf army and I employ the strollaz. This typically means I make it into combat by turn 3 or 4 without the master rune of challenge and turn 2 with the master rune of challenge. I have miners popping up on the back half of the table as well for a sandwhich effect.

vorin
18-06-2007, 13:14
Bueller? Bueller?

I know it's a wee bit early yet, but 45 views and not one longbeard can give me some sagely advice? :angel:

vorin
18-06-2007, 13:16
I have yet to play with an anvil, I just dont like anything that costs that much and can blow itself up.

I field an all marching dwarf army and I employ the strollaz. This typically means I make it into combat by turn 3 or 4 without the master rune of challenge and turn 2 with the master rune of challenge. I have miners popping up on the back half of the table as well for a sandwhich effect.

So if I take strollaz, master run of challenge is something worth taking? What kind of hero do you give the master rune of challenge to and rune combos work best?

Dead Man Walking
18-06-2007, 15:10
There are several reasons to take a rune of challenge, expeacially in a marching dwarf infantry army.

You challenge the enemies hardest hitting unit into a combat under situations your opponent does not want, like swamping a savage orc boar boy unit in a unit of hammerers with lord on shield bearer.

You can keep a unit str 5+ flying character from getting behind your army.

You can force a mage on a flying steed to come flying into combat.

You can force a fast cav unit which could get behind you to commit to combat.

If done near a table edge you can force your opponent to choose to attack or flee off the table. Great for flying characters on dragons.

You can use it to beat a unit and use the pursuit phase to shoot a nasty unit of dwarfs across the table in your opponents turn (which could get you into range for another charge on your turn.).

Remember you can decide which direction you will pursue or flee in by chaging your front ranks line of sight, so you can challenge one unit and aim thier flee path through another unit (panic) and use pursuit to charge said unit.

I typically stick this on a thane who is equipped for survivability (1+ save, ward saves and great weapon or strikes first weapon.). I like it on a lord too but I prefer my lord to have 4+ ward save, cant have both. I stick it in a unit that is designed to survive a charge, hammerers with run of courage and taking break test on 1d6 (instant pass) and then counter charging with other units on the flank if I stick on my turn.

It is pretty hardcore.

Dead Man Walking
18-06-2007, 18:04
I usually field;

x19 warriors (Runesmith)
x19 warriors (Bsb)
x19 Longbeards (Challenge thane)
x20 Longbeards
x15 Longbeards
x18 Hammerers (lord on shieldbearers)
x10 miners (Which show up backfield to mentally mess with opponent)

Each unit gets magic resistance 1 via char armor or magic banner. The challenge thane unit gets immune to fear and terror & roll 1 d6 for break test. (Keep near thane for reroll, even if you test at a 3 ldrship you have 50/50 chance of making it everytime you roll.)

But I have been toying with the ideal of going;

Warriors x19 (Bsb)
Warriors x19 (Runsemith)
Longbeards x20
Hammerers x19 (Challenge Thane)
Hammerers x20
Hammerers x20
Miners x10

Each unit with magic resistance (except miners) and hammerers with immune fear/terror + another rune to keep combo random and legal.

The trick is getting as many ws 5 str 4 3+ save units on the table as possible. With the first list I have had a smart orc player constantly backing up to avoid getting into combat with me playing a game of attrition. The list is weak to mass fanatic armies and armies that are mostly fast cav/skirmish. It can handle up to two units of heavy cav but a third is hard to deal with. (However it will beat the crud out of brittonians as they tend to fly straight at you. )

pcgamer72
18-06-2007, 22:42
For the benefit of us Non-Stunties, could you tell me what Strollaz is, please? :)

Dead Man Walking
18-06-2007, 23:11
It is a rune for a banner which a bsb can only take, it allows all dwarfs within 12 inches to take a free move before both players roll to see who goes first. It is one use only and anything that moves counts as having moved on thier first turn (so you cant move an organ gun and then fire it.) and you cant effect a gyrocoptor.

So essentially on turn one you can be in the middle of the table after your first move phase, it makes a dwarven assaulting army much more pheasable as in 3 turns it basically turns a move 6 dwarf into a move 8 dwarf.

Just note that terrain can play havok with your units alighnments as they start crossing the board, so keep that in mind.

vorin
19-06-2007, 04:12
Thanks for the tips Deadman! What do you think about MRo Challenge thane in with a unit of ironbreakers with the 1d6 rune?

Dead Man Walking
19-06-2007, 11:46
I am not a big fan of Iron breakers, they cost more than a hammerer and they can break. Hammerers with the same stuff will not break (Dont forget immune to fear and terror rune, its 30 points as opposed to adding a 300 point lord to get same effect.).

A lot of people act like hammerers are 0-1 but you -can- have 4 units of them in a 2k game. They test ldrship 9 no matter if they get hit in the flanks or not, they could loose combat by a million with one hammerer left and still hold the line.

I also took some warriors and clipped off the great axe heads and added hammer bits to field more hammerers.

Atzcapotzalco
19-06-2007, 16:22
As it happens, ironbreakers aren't 0-1 either.:evilgrin:

Merely not running away won't actually win battles, and ironbreakers with their better armour will take less casualties and therefore achieve better combat results. The hammerers are only cheaper if they don't take shields, in which case they have not just a slightly worse save but a much worse save-with only 5+ for heavy armour even S3 attacks are a serious hazard. Even heavy armour and shield for equal points cost isn't as good as gromril armour and shield, in combat or against missile weapons. Plus, dwarves have pretty good leadership anyway-espescially with a lord and BsB around it takes a big defeat to easily break them, and with the rune of determination they still won't break at all unless beaten by at least 4, although in line with trying to beat my opponents rather than merely hold them off I tend to favour the rune of battle-when combined with the rune of stoicism few units can manage enough casualties to win on combat resolution. Of coarse, longbeards shouldn't be forgotten-cheaper than either of their rivals, *immune* to panic(and I find embarassing double 6s have a tendency to turn up on important panic checks;) ), and taking up a core unit choice instead of a special. Really, I like all my veteran units, and my own combat-centred dwarf armies tend to include a unit of each, but the ironbreakers marching steadfastly over the enemy in their gromril boots are my favourite.

Dead Man Walking
20-06-2007, 03:18
They are cheaper, just not litterally cheaper. If you buy a shield (I always do) you have the option of hand weapon and great weapon for the same cost as IB who come with handweapon and shield. I would definately trade off taking a 2+ save for a 3+ save and being able to choose to use a great weapon (which typically cost 2 per guy to wield). If I am trying to stick a charge I will stick with shield and hand weapon. If I am counter charging or trying to wound a high toughness creature then I want to be able to choose the great weapon.

When charged by a strength 6 enemy I think I would rather have a 6+ save and stubborn ldr 9 immune to fear and terror than a 5+ save immune to fear and terror.

In an all marchy army it is all about recieving the charge and then counter charging in the flank to pulverize enemies.

vorin
20-06-2007, 04:25
Interesting stuff fellas. The debate between IB and hammerers is interesting but a bit off topic. I have IB, I love the models, so that is what I like to use. Hammerers are cool, but I like IB better for background. Just like my slayers. Sure slayers come up a bit short as compared to other specials, but I cant put them down. They are freaking slayers!

Anyway, I just got finished with a game against TK and this is what I ran.

Runelord, Anvil
GW, shield

Thane, GW shield

dragon slayer
MRoswiftness, +1 str, +1attacks

Thane, BSB (strollaz, sanctuary)

24 longbeards full command

19 warriors full command

15 Ironbreakers full command
Rune of stoicism

15 slayers full command

6 miners prospector/steamdrill

10 thunderers, shields

grudgethrower w/engineer
RoAccuracy, penetrating

gyrocopter

2250

This is roughly the list I ran today. It needs more of something, but I dunno what. I am considering taking out the anvil to free up points elsewhere, but if I do take it out, where should I spend the points? Any suggestions on the overall build as well?

N1AK
27-06-2007, 11:55
I'm just starting to put together my Dwarf army now. Personally I'm not sure about Strollaz... It seems like points spent to get back the speed we lost when we chose Dwarves?

The list I was looking at was Anvil based, With a 2xBolt Thrower, Organ Gun, 10 Quarrellers & 10 Thunderers gunline. It also includes two units of 10 miners, 15 Hammerers, 20 IB and 20 LB.

The idea is the gunline holds and tries to draw the enemy towards my line. Use of the Anvil to give me 12" charges on the miners (on the turn they come onto the board) or to charge with the IBs or Hammerers.

To me the Anvil is 500 points well spent. Not only is it an extra dispel dice (+2 for the Thorek). It gives you (89% of the time) one of the following each turn:
1/ The equivalent of 12-36 thunderer shots, which you can target on any unit at any range. Awesome for things like skinks chams, waywatchers, furies, Mages out of units etc.
2/ D3 extra moves, helping you setup suprise charges, and do things like charge miners onto the board.
3/ Makes your ENTIRE army immune to fear and terror.

Peril
27-06-2007, 15:46
You cannot march when you come on the board with Miners (or any unit coming on to a board edge inthis manner), so even with the Anvil Miners go 9" at best.

ehlijen
28-06-2007, 05:33
@ vorin:

You have too many characters. You can only have 4 in a normal 2k-2,999 game and the anvil uses a slot. Apart from this here's some suggestions to free points:

-out of those characters, I suggest dropping the dragon slayer
-bring down the big longeard unit to 20 and shore up the IB to 20 as well
-don't take a steam drill in such a small miner unit.
-don't give command to the slayers. they don't care if they win and their champions are overpriced.
-ease up on the grudge thrower runes. you almost doubled it's points with all those extras

as for suggestions for additions:
-a small ranger unit to threaten flanks and help marchblock
-the runic banner that gives a wardsave vs shooting to nearby units. screening slayers with a save? yes please!
-another shooty unit to help guard the anvil
-I assume the warriors and longbeards have shields?
-master rune of challenge (see above) and dismay (maybe, just maybe it will give you the time you need to close the gap and charge yourself, or stop a really nasty flanking unit in its tracks)

LuciusAR
28-06-2007, 10:39
Normally I take a fairly balanced middle of the road Dwarf army (soar a 50/50 win/loose record after around 6 months of play). However I seen a Strollers army at a local club I play at and I must admit I'm very close to buying an anvil. An aggressive Dwarf army is always going got be interesting at the best of times, however this Rune makes it a truly viable option.

N1AK
28-06-2007, 11:10
Peril: Thanks for pointing that out, worryingly I marched the Miners on in every game of the doubles GT :( although noone mentioned it and tbh 3" would of made no difference.