PDA

View Full Version : defencive mixed goblin list



eyeolas
21-06-2007, 18:17
this is my first time with any fantasy army, and with BFSP just built in my room, I thought an all gobo list would be fun. It has pleanty of magic, PLEANTY of archers and artillery and a bunch of combat stuff just to back it all up


1500 (1470/197/8/5+1)
goblin shaman (lv2) with the horn of urgok 130
goblin shaman (lv2) with the staff of sneaky stealin' 140
goblin shaman (lv2) with Nibbla's itty ring and dispel scroll 135
20 night goblins with bows and 2 fanatics 110
20 night goblins with bows and 2 fanatics 110
20 night goblins with bows and a fanatic 85
20 night goblins with bows and a fanatic 85
30 night goblins with spears and full command 140
30 night goblins with spears and full command 140
30 night goblins with spears and full command 140
5 goblin wolf riders with spears 65
5 goblin wolf riders with spears 65
goblin rock lobber 70
goblin doom diver 80


The list is fairly simple, and does follow some of the same tactics as khemri do. With that much magic I *should* have magical dominance, and should be able to do some seriouse damage with those 3 aswell. A dispel scroll for good messure and 2 bound spells also mean the opponent will have alot of magic coming at him each turn. The set up is as follows:

...archers..archers...archers..archers...
..wolves.spears.spears.spears.wolves..
......D diver....................R lobber......

The general shaman will be in the front of the center unit of spears, so will have some LoS if neaded, and the other 2 in the wing units of archers. The 2 center units of archers each have 2 fanatics and the wing ones have 1 each so should be able to deal out some damage to anyone who wants to charge them.

It is a case of taking second turn if I can, and being able to move foreward and shooting with alot of archers (even if they hit on 6s, I am shooting 40 of them) and 2 artillery shots, and a bunch of magic. next turn it is retreat after reforming so that the archers are fractionally infront of the spears, and they will be in 4 ranks of 5. I will then shoot and magic again. The opponent will now be in charge range so will most likely charge, so I get to shoot again. Now either the unit of archers does well and holds, ready for the counter charge from my spears, or the opponent makes the goblins flee, and then will be flank charged after over run. That flank units will also be streangthened with a flank charge from the wolves (who will deny rank bonus), tipping my odds even more in the way of wining a combat. During all this there are fanatics still wizing around, who will hopefully kill more enemies.

From there it is get my combat units into combat and kill things with the continued magic offence, purposefull templates on the head from the artillery and a load of spears, which hopefully will do it.

Vs another shooty army I will have to do all of this, but moving foreward instead, which could be good or bad.

I will just have to watch for cannons and other artillery, which is a good second use for my wolves, just incase worst comes to worst.

Would this work as well as I hope it would? and what would you change?

pyroguy_93
21-06-2007, 18:39
Well, I have am fine with your list, but more concerned with your tactics. Do not forget taht your goblins are going to do little actual damage in combat, so you need to rely on tactics to get some wins from this list. Magic should be helpful, and you are certainly a formiddable force, so you should outdo any force that isn't an elf / tzeench player in the magic phase. There are a few things to watch out for. Enemy characters, as you only have edbutt to really hurt them. Challenges will be very scary for you, so avoid units that have anything in. Also, you have little anti-monster, and they are scary enough for my monster high D elf army. Also, the flank charge technique is a little dubious, as with the number of units you have it will get a little cluttered and with the overun tactic you may struggle to get a charge, as you would have to be presenting your side to the enemy with your wolves to get such a counter charge.

Otherwise, nice list, but you need a bit of balance.

The Anarchist
21-06-2007, 22:58
whilst i like the idea for the army this force relay wont be able to deal with many types of threat. if you want to keep a solid inantry base might want to consider droping the number of NG units and investing in soem other things. one or two charriots might be an idea in this army or maybe some trolls, still very NG orientated but giving you some more options.

also why are all the fanatics in the archers? with the archers also you dont need them that size, 15 tops, afterall even on a hill only fire with two ranks so 20 is just not worth it.

just my two cent, i should however point out i have never played Orc & goblin armies so take my advice with a touvh of salt.

eyeolas
22-06-2007, 19:51
Well, goblins are 20+ so that sais that

My archers are in the front line with the spears behind them (I even drew a diagram :rolleyes:), so that's were the fanatics should be.

I am still very new to fantasy so will be righting lots of lists and sieng which I like the most, this one is just my favorite at the moment

@ Pyroguy: Tactics for this list will come in due time, the main thing I am looking for now is a solid list I can build from. I have never actually played a game yet so tactics obviously won't be very good coming from me at the moment, it is just the basics of what I see this list doing on a standard table vs a standard force.

warlord hack'a
23-06-2007, 19:13
okay, here are my 2 cents, well more than 2 cents actually..

Your list lacks ld and close combat power, which is not a bad thing as your intention is to kill as many enemy as possible before they get to you and then use your spear blocks to break the enemy in close combat, right? So your basic tactic with this unit is stand and shoot/cast spells.

In order to maximize the effectiveness of shooting and spells you need to make sure that close comabt never happens at all and if it must, happens as late as possible. There are a number of things you can do to achieve this:
1) deploy as far away from the enemy as possible
2) use spiderriders and wolfriders to marchblock the enemy main combat unit
3) use multiple layers of nigo units with fanatics in then so that when the enemy gets to within 8 inch he will have to wade through a lot of fanatics, that usually stops enemy units approaching you for a turn (or two). Get one night goblin shamane, give him mad cap mushrooms and put him in a unit with 3 fanatics to maximize fanatic damage. With careful positioning and the use of a sacrificial unti this could mean that the enemy charging units suffers 6D6 S5 hits and you can reroll the 6D6 is you do not like the number of hits you got!
4) create a threatzone apart form the zone created by the fanatics. E.g. by placing one or two chariots in your line. They threaten any enemy unit that comes too close unsupported.

So what I am trying to say is: half of your list is there to stand and shoot, but the other half does not contribute to the points I mention above. When half your ofrce casts magic or shoots then the other half should be preventing the enemy from reaching your lines or should be able to deal the desicive blow in close combat.

So get a chariot or two, get some spear chukkas (they are great for their points cost), get 2 units of spiderriders for marchblocking, get more fanatics to delay the enemy further.

Also, do the match on goblin short bows: gobbo archers have BS3, S3 and 16" range. Let's take a standard enemy core unit with T3 and a 4+ save versus shooting (so slightly better than empire swordsmen) and a move 4 facing one unit of your archers 12 wide (makes my calculations a lot easier than the standard 10 wide). Then the first round that you will be able to shoot the enemy will be over half range, so you hit on 5+, meaning 4 will hit. S3 vs T3 means 2 wounds, 4+ save means one dead man. The next round they will be right in front of you, whether you shuffled backwards or not. You hit on 4+ meaning 6 will hit, 3 will wound, 1,5 will die. So the enemy lost 2.5 models thus far. Then they charge, you stand and shoot (if they started out further than 4" away at least), hitting again on 5's so you kill another trooper. 3.5 troopers died through your hail of arrows and now you are in close combat with your ws of 2, S3, no armour save, no close combat character, only +1 rank bonus, no banner and LD 5. In short: you will break from this combat as before blows are struck you are already at -1CR (they have +2 rank bonus, banner, you have outnumber and +1 rank bonus) and they are better in hth (now you see why night gobbo's need fanatics.. ;-)).

So you see: the things in your list that will be doing the damage are the mages, the fanatics and the warmachines and unless you manage to combine charges to the front and flank of an enemy unit your gobbo's will not survive the day.

pyroguy_93
23-06-2007, 19:18
Eyeolas, try and play a fer small games and see how much you like yor magic, archers, etc.

Remeber that your archers will only peeper most things but other archers, which dont tend to be in 18"

Try to use them to drop rank bonuses on units that are soon to charge your spearmen, then hit them even harder with the fanatics. I do not wholly agree with your idea of having archers in front, as your spearmen are much better at taking a charge. I can see the archers having more fanatics though. You definately need somthing other than eadbut that can hurt enemy characters, as your first game against chaos will hurt otherwise, trust me on this, I would know.

Count de Monet
23-06-2007, 19:45
Gobbo archers are very situational. In specific circumstances when they can get full shots off (close enough to enemy unit on hill or large target) they can be useful. With M4, animosity and lousy leadership, not going to happen often.

But if considered to be weak melee troops who happen to be able to take a shot occaisionally, can be alright. With the fanatics and +3CR they're a threat to small units. Overall would probably get better performance out of hw/shield or spear units with command, but they're not worthless.

I love gobbo magic. But I love army standard bearers too. Ld rerolls are awesome. To top it off, an extra +1 or +2 (warbanner) CR for one of your big blocks can come in really handy. I'd suggest seeing how you do with only two shamans and a BSB.

Pipes of Doom are the bomb. I'd make one of the shamans NG and drop something else just to get these. Can throw a huge wrench into a cav-heavy army's plans.

I'd personally ditch one of the warmachines for a pair of spearchukkas to allow for easier knight/monster removal.

warlord hack'a
23-06-2007, 19:45
for example, if you want a defensive list you could get:

Goblin shaman lvl 2 on wolf with Horn of Urgok, lucky's dirk and he's your general. WOfl gives him extra move to get out of nasty situations, the dirk can be nice when you have no option but to face an enemy character.

Goblin shaman lvl 2 with dispel scroll and nibla's ring
Night goblin shaman lvl 2 with Dispel scroll and Mad Cap mushrooms
2 * 5 spiderriders, with musician
2 * 5 wolfriders, with musician
2 * 20 night gobbo archers each with 3 fanatics. Deploy them as wide as possible as they will lose close combat anyway unless you rank them up deep in which case they will not be good at shooting at all! When on a hill deploy them one rank deep, 20 wide, and place one unit tighly behind the other. Then just think how many fanatics will be released when the enemy charges this formation (put the shaman with mushrooms in the 2nd unit for maximum effect)

2* goblin spear chukka with bully (you do not want to panic due to elves or running gobbo's now do you..)
goblin rock lobber with bully
goblin doom diver
goblin chariot (orc one is better but I am sitcking to your gobbo theme)


25 night goblins with hw, shield, nets, standard bearer and one fanatic (to counter fast cav)
21 night goblins with hw, shield, standard bearer and one fanatic (again to counter fast cav)

total 1500 points.

the goal: marchblock with your fast units, charge with chariot and one unti of wolfies anything that is coming too close and stand and shoot till you drop.

If you do not have a hill to deploy on this will be a difficult force to win with, but it's a nice variation to the list I normally field, perhaps I will try it out!