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huitzilopochtli
21-06-2007, 23:29
well here's what i was thinking... my friend who plays vampire counts frequently gives his black knights the standard that always makes them hit on threes. i was wondering what effect casting the transmutation to lead spell on these knights would do. would the standard still have its hit on threes effect? or would it be reduced to fours by the spell? thanks!

sulla
22-06-2007, 00:44
well here's what i was thinking... my friend who plays vampire counts frequently gives his black knights the standard that always makes them hit on threes. i was wondering what effect casting the transmutation to lead spell on these knights would do. would the standard still have its hit on threes effect? or would it be reduced to fours by the spell? thanks!
There's no clash in this case. You apply the -1 and to each roll and then any which rolled a modified 3 (in other words 4 or higher) hit.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Transmutation can stop models scoring killing blow or poison. I would assume it does since they can never roll 6 to hit or wound...

Rabban
22-06-2007, 00:56
There's no clash in this case. You apply the -1 and to each roll and then any which rolled a modified 3 (in other words 4 or higher) hit.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Transmutation can stop models scoring killing blow or poison. I would assume it does since they can never roll 6 to hit or wound...

Modifiers have no effect on killing blow or poison, since they only occur on a natural 6. Also I believe the magic standard causes the black knights to hit on a 3 regardless of any modifiers, although I can't access the exact wording at the moment because I'm at work.

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-06-2007, 03:31
If they have the Banner of the Barrows giving them -1 to hit is irrelevant. They are not effected by modifiers, only thing that could effect them is if you have another rule saying they always hit on X instead of 3+.

Griefbringer
22-06-2007, 06:36
Gorbad has it correct.

Essentially, the Transmutation causes a to hit modifier. Banner of Barrows causes the unit to ignore all to hit modifiers. There is no conflict of rules.

Festus
22-06-2007, 07:34
Yes. It is explicitly spelled out in the banner's description that it makes the Wight hit on 3+ regardless of any modifiers. So you can stack modifiers as much as you like on the Wights with BotB (like Cloud of Flies or similar), they will not apply.

Note that this even goes for positive modifiers, so a +1 to hit modifier will be of no use, too.

Festus

T10
22-06-2007, 07:50
If they have the Banner of the Barrows giving them -1 to hit is irrelevant.

Indeed. The Banner specifies the roll required to hit and explicitily discounts all other modifiers.

-T10

huitzilopochtli
22-06-2007, 19:38
thanks!! glad thats cleared up then! otherwise next weeks match could have turned nasty! :D

ZomboCom
23-06-2007, 09:09
The only occasion where wights with the banner of the barrows might not hit on a 3+ if when up against an opponent that can only be hit on a certain value, e.g. annoyance of nettlings, in which case it will be a dice off each turn.

The banner of the barrows is certainly immune to all modifiers.