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ReveredChaplainDrake
22-06-2007, 14:45
Even though I'm pretty new at Fantasy, and my Lizards aren't exactly terrible, I want to branch out into some other armies. In 40k, it took a change of pace to Tyranids to appreciate stuff like Power Armor and Str4, and Eldar made me appreciate the subtleties of ATSKNF. That's the same principle I'm looking for by switching armies. As such, I wanted to find the army that is the most spectral opposite from Lizardmen, and I came across the Dark Elves. (Incidentally, the reason I didn't choose High Elves was because my brother played those for a time, and they were incredibly elite and fragile, even as expensive as my Saurus. I also don't want Wood Elves on account of the fact that *everybody* plays Wood Elves, and my Lizards are already an Ultra-Rainbow-Seizure-Skirmish-Happy-Army-O'-Death. Plus, what ultimately sold me on the Dark Elves was their magic and their color scheme, which the other elf brands don't have.)

The thing with Lizardmen is that they're hardly what you'd call a "traditional" army. The way most players say that they win games with Infantry seems to be pretty lost on me and my Lizards when Skink Skirmishers are weenier than Goblins yet twice as expensive, and a full +5CR Saurus block costs a whopping 270 pts, so spending points on mostly troops can often find Lizards outmaneuvered quite easily by the likes of even dain-bramaged Skeletons and Zombies, forcing Lizards to rely more on their Skirmishers (like Salamanders, Terradons, and JSoDs) to do the grunt-work. As such, Lizards are often on the defensive. However, at that they do happen to excel because Saurus blocks around a Slann w/ BSB are virtually unbreakable without using Psychology, and their potentially rock-hard armor and toughness is the envy of all races except Orcs and Chaos. And on top of that, their Oldbloods are some of the scrappiest fighters in the game, yet they can actually do it without threatening an enormous chunk of points like Chaos Lords, and without endangering the entire army like VCs.

From what I've heard and seen about Dark Elves, they seem to be much more founded on foot blocks than Lizardmen. They also get their blocks much cheaper, theirs move faster, they have inexpensive Chariot support, and theirs aren't nearly as dim-witted as Saurus, or even men for that matter. Sure DEs can't take a punch to save their lives, but they do have the speed to make sure they're the ones doing the smacking, not taking it. DEs also have both an incredible ranged repertoire in the form of Repeater Bolt Throwers and tons of Repeater Crossbows, as well as a Dark Magic lore all their own that makes the Lore of Fire look like Wingardium Leviosa. (They also get the same +1 casting bonus as my Slann, which is always cool, and their lower-level spells aren't even all that hard to cast anyway. Their mages also don't cost upwards of 500 pts...) And of course, let's not forget that Dark Elves have a dragon. After the Carnosaur, Malekith's Black Dragon is my favorite single Fantasy model, and one I just can't wait to paint.

My main concern is that Dark Elves are Fantasy's Dark Eldar, where their rules are so ridiculously outdated that the newer, younger army books can tear DE apart without much effort at all. Are Dark Elves still an army to contend with, or do other whippersnapper armies outdate and outclass them? Another hindrance is that DE have no Battalion Box and so much DE stuff is metal that it might be hard and expensive to assemble a decent-sized infantry force. Here's hoping Ebay can at least rectify the latter.

Madmartigan
22-06-2007, 16:27
Congratulations on coming to the light Chaplain. Druchii are a great army to play, but as you may see, require far more tactical prowess than most. They have low toughness and low armor save and cost significantly more than most armies do pointwise. They also are definitely due for a rules revision, but (to give you the silver lining) are one of the most characterful and tactically rewarding armies out there.

So, let's the doom and gloom over with quickly.

Cons:
-low toughness and armor save
-expensive troops
-their chariots and calvary are stupid (they use cold ones)
-low strength may lead to a lack of hammers
-old rules that may make our army seem to be under powered

Pros:
-Wonderful models
-Fun army that gives you a challenge and not an autovictory
-Core fast cavalry with the ability to take repeater crossbows
-Lots of fear and terror causing units (Cold one knights and chariots, manticores, dragons, hydras)
-Great shooting phase via rxbs and bolt throwers
-Our magic really is good with the +1 and dark lore is a great all around lore while you also have the ability to take death lore or shadow lore
-Lots of elite infantry with fun rules
-The ability to take what I think is one of the coolest army builds in the game, the Cult of Slaanesh

Anyway, if you are looking for an army that isn't a point and click army, Druchii are for you. They are the most tactically rewarding army I have played. Good luck to and try visiting Druchii.net for more info.

ReveredChaplainDrake
24-06-2007, 05:06
Well I just picked up the army book, a couple blocks of Dark Elf Warriors (the most obviously useful), a Dragon (because it looks cool, it's so rock-hard, and as soon as I get a 2000-pt list, the dragon is a shoe-in), and 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers (because I have a feeling that, like my Kroxigors to my Lizardmen, RBTs are going to become a quick staple).

Some observations I have noticed though:

In general, I was rather pleased to see the changes of the DE Revision already worked into this printing of the DE Army Book for me. Saves me the trouble of having to print out the whole thing and trying to prove its authenticity to rules lawyers. Also, the entire army hates High Elves, which (while it is to be expected of them) is a nice little thing to keep in mind when actually facing High Elves. Knowing what of the High Elf rules that I do (for now, until the book changes) only certain High Elves hate Dark Elves, generally putting Dark Elves at an advantage.

Special Characters, like is the case for most armies, aren't really that good. Their points costs are stupidly high, the power of their magical items and armor is borderline redundant, and they eat up just about every lord and hero choice you have. (Malekith, for example, does just that.) Much cheaper, less character-intensive choices can be selected for a DIY Highborn or Noble.

The heroes themselves are incredibly (and redundantly) skillful at what they do. Finally, unlike my Lizardmen, these characters aren't dumb as a post, and the strength of the fighty characters aren't all that bad either (for an elf...). I'll probably emplore more of a fighty setup spearheaded (quite literally) with a Highborn on Black Dragon, supported by a couple casters here and there, toting around their Dispel Scrolls, hiding in foot blocks, and generally being all kinds of annoying. However, as I'm not using a big honking Ubermage, and my better spells are really potent yet tough to cast, I might want to consider taking Power Stones instead of / in addition to Dispel Scrolls.

Fortunately, Dark Elf characters shouldn't really see any large expense without a large mount. The reason being because most Dark Elf magic weapons and items suck. Dark Elves really do not have the kind of physical oomph! needed to make the a lot of their weapons worth their cost, IMO. (Or it could be that 5-attack, WS6, Str5 Oldbloods have me spoiled rotten.) The Executioner's Axe and the Venom Sword are also moronically expensive period, basically hogging most of my magic allowance. And most of the others are too exotic or situational to be of decent effect. However, the Crimson Death appears to be a very good weapon. It's basically like a Great Weapon that strikes at Initiative, but it can't be screwed around with. (I face an Empire opponent who really likes that magic doohickey that switches around characters' physical stats during a Challenge. It'd be quite the nasty little surprise to him. Of course, if you're getting charged by a dragon, you're several flavors of screwed, regardless of what the Elf has.) This will likely be the weapon of choice for my Highborn. The Hydra Blade would come up a close second because, while the Highborn may not be able to tangle with enemy characters, the Dragon he'll inevitably ride can, so I may as well tool out the Highborn for anti-infantry. Alternative to magic weapons entirely, I could just stick with a lance. I get to use shields, accumulate a really good yet inexpensive save, and I don't spend a bucketload of points on a character that'll probably get shish-kebabed by a Bolt Thrower anyway. The problem is that, as I've noticed against Wood Elves, nice things tend to happen to those who carry magic weapons.

Another item I see as being a list staple is the Armour of Darkness. Sort of spits in the face of those who say Elves can't really get good armor. The Blood Armor could get a really good save, but it actually requires taking wounds, and is thus only good in combo with the Soul Stealer (Dark) or Steal Soul (Death) spells. Also, as the Armor of Darkness gives such a good save that can't be improved anyway, it sort of cancels out the only real disadvantage to the double-handed nature of the afformentioned Crimson Blade (which is not being able to take an Enchanted Shield).

The magical offense seems really good, especially with the Dark Elves' own personal Lore. However, some of the better spells seem a bit tricky to cast, even despite their casting bonus. Plus, as I still have no idea about how much average magic is used in 2000 pt games, I can't really speak for how to defend myself from the opponent's magic. (Again, this is probably an exaggerated worry because Spawnings of Tepok have also spoiled me.) Gone will be the days of me using a magic shutdown list with 6 DDs and 2 DSs in the same 2000 pt list. The only question now is can I keep myself from getting completely shut down, and how bad the reprocussions of enemy spells will be. I still don't know because I'm still a tad nooby as to what constitutes a "normal" magic repertoire. Everybody I play against either maxes, mins, or goes in the middle and takes lots of bound items.

And finally, the infamous Repeater Crossbow. I really don't know what to say about this one, except "not another multi-shot gun..." Seriously, I got a bit tired of taking shooting penalties for double-tapping with my Skinks, and I think in the DE's case, it really sort of defeats the purpose of having BS4 if the shots are only hitting on 5s anyway. (And when it comes to Skirmishers, I'm better off steamrolling them with magic and my Dragon.) If there's really that big a horde, the Repeater Bolt Throwers should be able to handle things themselves, and if not, I will have some magic. Besides, I'm saving up money for either Corsairs or Dark Riders, both who have just as good Repeater Crossbow fire as the Warriors, but are actually intended to shoot stuff.

Zethal
24-06-2007, 08:40
(Incidentally, the reason I didn't choose High Elves was because my brother played those for a time, and they were incredibly elite and fragile, even as expensive as my Saurus.
Dark Elves are just as fragile as High Elves if not more so, and just as expsensive.


From what I've heard and seen about Dark Elves, they seem to be much more founded on foot blocks than Lizardmen. They also get their blocks much cheaper, theirs move faster, they have inexpensive Chariot support, and theirs aren't nearly as dim-witted as Saurus, or even men for that matter.
Dark Elves will pretty much always win and loose based on the use of the Dark Riders. Their foot troops are generally not cheap with the exception of warriors who got a nice reduction in the revision. And rarley is a DE army ever founded on blocks of troups, much much less then lizard men who have amazing saurus.

Their 'inexspensive' chariots are pretty much the most exspensive next to khorne ones, and actually suffer from 'stupidty' rules making them the most dim-witted chariots avalible. Also they are only move 7 so quite slow.

....as well as a Dark Magic lore all their own that makes the Lore of Fire look like Wingardium Leviosa. (They also get the same +1 casting bonus as my Slann, which is always cool, and their lower-level spells aren't even all that hard to cast anyway. Their mages also don't cost upwards of 500 pts...)
Actaully the Dark Magic lore is quite weak, with a huge casting cost on black horror which is really only a medicore spell. Dominion is the strongest one in the list and can potentailly win games, but it also has a huge casting cost and an incredibly short range. Besides that they really only have a couple medicore magic missles at best and like dominion just about every thing they have is short range. Then as you mentioned their price is quite high.



In general, I was rather pleased to see the changes of the DE Revision already worked into this printing of the DE Army Book for me. Saves me the trouble of having to print out the whole thing and trying to prove its authenticity to rules lawyers. Aye it was quite nice of GW to change the printing to incorporate the revision.

Also, the entire army hates High Elves, which (while it is to be expected of them) is a nice little thing to keep in mind when actually facing High Elves. Knowing what of the High Elf rules that I do (for now, until the book changes) only certain High Elves hate Dark Elves, generally putting Dark Elves at an advantage.
and in return the entire HE army is stoic against DE, making them immune to panic.


However, the Crimson Death appears to be a very good weapon. It's basically like a Great Weapon that strikes at Initiative, but it can't be screwed around with. (I face an Empire opponent who really likes that magic doohickey that switches around characters' physical stats during a Challenge. It'd be quite the nasty little surprise to him. The Crimson Death will actaully have no effect on speculum. All it does is give the user a S6 at all times, and to my knowledge this is only relevent against the Shield of Ghrond another DE item.



Another item I see as being a list staple is the Armour of Darkness. Sort of spits in the face of those who say Elves can't really get good armor. The Blood Armor could get a really good save, but it actually requires taking wounds, and is thus only good in combo with the Soul Stealer (Dark) or Steal Soul (Death) spells. Also, as the Armor of Darkness gives such a good save that can't be improved anyway, it sort of cancels out the only real disadvantage to the double-handed nature of the afformentioned Crimson Blade (which is not being able to take an Enchanted Shield).


First the Armor of Darkness is generally just about never worthwhile. Since it includes a shield it can not be used in combination with an great weapon, crimson death, or the Draich of Dark Power. An in just about every situation it is more price effective to just load him up with normal armor, or normal armor + enchanted shield.

The Blood armor gets better the more wounds the user causes not takes. Plus mages can not take armor so i could not combo Soul Stealer or Steal Soul even if it did require taking wounds.



All that being said I love playing my Druchii, and they are a great army to learn the tactics of the game with. They quickly force you to do so, like no other army does. If you don't learn you simply loose.

However an important distinction between Lizards and Druchii is that Lizards are one of the most forgiving armies in the game, and Druchii are arguably the least forgiving army in the game. However once you start the master the Dark Elves you should experience victory by huge margins when you get them. And when you have close tied battles they will be exactally what warhammer is all about very brutal with a ton of blood shed and will be some of the most fun games you will have ever played.

As far as models go, dont waste your money on dark riders, get some Wood Elf glade riders and convert, they are all plastic, still great models and cost less then half as much.

ReveredChaplainDrake
24-06-2007, 12:38
Dark Elves are just as fragile as High Elves if not more so, and just as expsensive.

Dark Elves will pretty much always win and loose based on the use of the Dark Riders. Their foot troops are generally not cheap with the exception of warriors who got a nice reduction in the revision. And rarley is a DE army ever founded on blocks of troups, much much less then lizard men who have amazing saurus.

Are you kidding? A 7pt Dark Elf beats a 12pt High Elf any day. (Well, not one-on-one, of course.)

IMO, Lizards' strength is in their skinks, and that's what I'm trying to get away from. Saurus blocks are dim-witted, out-manouverable by every non-dwarf in the game, crazy-expensive, and if you've seen my crap-tacular dice rolling lately, Cold-blooded and being near the BSB isn't nearly as helpful as you'd think (unless that bsb happens to be a 550-pt Slann w/ Totem of Prophecy in the midst of an enormous Temple Guard unit).

As to the DEs themselves, I've settled on an idea of 2 units of 19 Spearelves for my Sorceresses to hide in for their "Look out, Sir! (or Ma'am, as the case may be)" rolls. Any spares will be crossbowmen until I can get my hands on some Dark Riders, Shades, and COKs.



Their 'inexspensive' chariots are pretty much the most exspensive next to khorne ones, and actually suffer from 'stupidty' rules making them the most dim-witted chariots avalible. Also they are only move 7 so quite slow.

I'm familiar with stupidity being a bad thing. (See "crap-tacular dice-rolling" above.) As such, I plan to take at most one stupid unit of COKs (dual-ranked at most) and that's it. I have no real intention of choosing Chariots at all because, as a former Lizard player who hands out str7 attacks like peanuts, Chariots are way too fragile anyway.



Actaully the Dark Magic lore is quite weak, with a huge casting cost on black horror which is really only a medicore spell. Dominion is the strongest one in the list and can potentailly win games, but it also has a huge casting cost and an incredibly short range. Besides that they really only have a couple medicore magic missles at best and like dominion just about every thing they have is short range. Then as you mentioned their price is quite high.


I noticed that too, when I realized that I'm not using Lv4 casters anymore. I'm not getting off any of those big spells without Power Stones and/or Irresistable Force. But when the base-level spell can freeze a gunline in place, even for just a turn, it's worth it.


and in return the entire HE army is stoic against DE, making them immune to panic.

Aw, crap. That must be a new thing, because I didn't even notice it in the current 6th HE book. So much for using Terror-causers... (Good thing I don't actually play against HEs.)


The Crimson Death will actaully have no effect on speculum. All it does is give the user a S6 at all times, and to my knowledge this is only relevent against the Shield of Ghrond another DE item.

First the Armor of Darkness is generally just about never worthwhile. Since it includes a shield it can not be used in combination with an great weapon, crimson death, or the Draich of Dark Power. An in just about every situation it is more price effective to just load him up with normal armor, or normal armor + enchanted shield.

The Blood armor gets better the more wounds the user causes not takes. Plus mages can not take armor so i could not combo Soul Stealer or Steal Soul even if it did require taking wounds.

First, how does the Shield of Ghrond affect the Crimson Death?

Second, what's a Draich of Dark Power? I can't find it anywhere in the DE magic items.

And third, the Blood Armor is better than I thought. These rules tend to suck easier than they work for you, so I probably missed that part when I read it. So basically, a combo I should use is Blood Armor and Hydra Blade or Blade of Ruin to rack up a good save fast, right? But, then again, I am using a Highborn on a Dragon, and my Carnosaur has taught me the important lesson of large mounts sucking most of the firepower away from the character and dieing really quickly, so this makes a whole lot of armor pretty redundant anyway.

Any advice on using a Dragon? My plan is to run him down a flank, keeping him out of LoS, Noxious Breathing whatever I land next to until I can declare charges and wreck entire flanks of any non-undead (or apparently non-HE) army.

jeremycobert
26-06-2007, 20:12
Are Dark Elves still an army to contend with

nope. if you just play for fun, then by all means do so. but if you plan on playing in tournaments then the dark elf army is better left at home.

i think the elf armies are the worst armies for a new player to learn with.

Peril
26-06-2007, 21:17
Crimson Death is nice in that you can sit in a Chariot and get +2 Str unlik a Great Weapon.

kyussinchains
27-06-2007, 07:31
okay, one on one, a dark elf will often beat the high elf due to his hatred allowing him to re-roll missed attacks.

secondly, multi shot weapons are great! mathematically you will score more hits when you fire a volley than single shots, even with the -1 penalty. If you only want to take one shooting unit in the army, take Mengil's Manflayers, they're all BS5 AND have poisoned RxBs to boot, they're great for shooting up foot troops, and they're no slouches in combat either.

plus in a dark elf army they count as a special choice!

Scythe
27-06-2007, 08:22
Second, what's a Draich of Dark Power? I can't find it anywhere in the DE magic items.


It is a storm of chaos magic item. In the soc book, several items were added to the basic dark elf list. I'd advice you to get a hold of the rules somewhere (search if the Cult of Slaanesh rules are still on the web; the magic items are in the same pdf). Most of the newly introduced items are pretty usefull.

kingpinuk24
27-06-2007, 20:24
the best thing if your going to change to dark elfs is wait till there up dated
book comes out then start colecting

Scythe
28-06-2007, 07:17
You could wait a long time for that, over a year at least. Nothing wrong with buying models you like and building an army around it.

ReveredChaplainDrake
29-06-2007, 03:18
I've already got some models already (2x RBTs, 36 spearelves and a Dragon) as well as the army book, and I'm fully started up already. There's no going back at this point and I'm an official Druchii player now. If I ever feel the need to put my 2 cents into a tournament, I'll do it with either my Tyranids or my Lizardmen, for now. If rumor reveals that a Dark Elf book is going to come out soon, I really don't have enough models right now to render anything I own "useless", short of an earth-shattering change to the Spearelves or Bolt Thrower rules.

Anyway, some of my favorite models in the Dark Elf range are the Warriors, the Executioners, the Black Guard, the Cold One Knights (particularly Malus Darkblade), the Dragon, and the Cauldron of Blood. However, I'm not particularly fond of the Beastmaster, the Cold One Chariots, Hydras, Witch Elves, or the Shades. The RBTs, the Sorceresses, and the Dark Riders are pretty "meh", but I recognize their necessity if I want a list that doesn't get murdered all the time. Are there any choice units I should really stick to if I want to do Dark Elves for competition's sake?

Scythe
29-06-2007, 10:54
Not really, tough most people like at least a unit of dark riders or two and some warriors. Core fast cavalry is one of the greatest advantages dark elves have, and warriors are just that... basic and cheap...

Dark riders probably get redone in a new army book, but most people are converting theirs from wood elf glade riders anyway...

Causa Mortis
29-06-2007, 11:51
Black guard have great models and fantastic rules games-wise. I would definitely look to include a unit of them in your army.

Rodzaju
29-06-2007, 22:03
I'll just second the call for Menghil's Manflayers.

Also HE immunity to panic doesn't mean they are immune to terror.

kyussinchains
30-06-2007, 12:22
Black guard have great models and fantastic rules games-wise. I would definitely look to include a unit of them in your army.

I agree on the models front, I have 30, and nicely painted and ranked up they look fantastic.

However they are horrendously expensive, and very very fragile, I once lost 21 of them in a single charge from savage orc boarboyz!

they also arent particularly nasty combat wise, they have 1 S4 attack, sure they can re-roll missed hits, but against anything with decent toughness and armour you're really struggling.

They make a nice tarpit unit, but I dont use them very often.

I did a complete rundown on the dark elf units in this thread, scroll down to my post for plenty of info!

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1601015#post1601015

Scythe
03-07-2007, 07:22
I agree that the black guard aren't that usefull game wise. Their rules are ok, but 16 points is simply too expensive for a T3 5+ save elf...

Slyracoon
04-07-2007, 22:55
Dark Elves, now that is a finesse army. I've played them as my main army since they were released for 6th Ed., and they are not at all forgiving. Expect to lose a whole heap of games when you first start, but hang tough because when you start winning it's way more rewarding.

The one thing you really need to remember is with DE, you're only going to win the game in one phase: the movement phase. This is pretty true of all Warhammer, but with DE your combat potential is so low, your army is so small, you desperately need a co-ordinated movement phase to get those flank charges, rear charges, whatever it takes. This is why a lot of players swear by Dark Riders and you'd definitely be crazy to leave them behind, but another tactic which I've found to work wonders is Multiple Small Units of the ultra-cheap Spearelves. Now you need them in blocks, to get CR, but to be honest they're not as good fighters as other block troops (say, Saurus?) and they have none of the natural advantages that others like Undead infantry have, so they're true advantage is low cost and M5. Two units of ten, for 140pts, can play havok with your enemy's battle plan by acting as bait and allow you to fight combats on your terms.

Other than that, please don't bother with Black Guard. Their rules are truly abysmal. You're better off with Executioners, which have easily as good models and can actually be quite good on the battlefield. Enjoy your new army!

Ninsaneja
05-07-2007, 08:17
1. In response to the thread title, I'd have to say my advice is to swap back to lizardmen. Dark Elves are hard to play and especially hard if you are used to having either high-toughness models like Saurus or cheap models like Skinks, because believe me you will begin to miss them pretty fast. I went from Dark Elves to Lizardmen and I rarely regret this (Once or twice I think back to having Repeater Bolt Throwers and Repeater Crossbows.)

2. Dark Elves rely on maneuvering and shooting. Take lots of Dark Riders and lots of small units. Never rank a unit other than your basic spearmen with shields. You have high leadership and elite stats, don't waste it in a back rank. Multiple charges beat rank bonuses any day.

3. Ignore the rare choices section. It doesn't like you and you should learn to hate it.

4. Resist the temptation to take a large unit of knights with a hero in it. Remember that stupid units should be used in a supporting role at best, and a non-vital one at that. Cold One Knights are only useful in that they cause fear. They are barely better than Empire Knightly Orders and they don't hold a candle to a lance formation or anything chaos ever did ever. They cost a huge amount and do very little. I don't like them at all, in fact, so much so that after testing them out with proxies I left them in the package and they remain unbuilt. I have eight or so blisters of COK's sitting on my shelf.

5. Panic is your friend.

Urgat
05-07-2007, 10:01
Mmmmh, DE are my most common opponent. They're really all or nothing against me: if their tactics work, it hurts a lot, but usually, they just are unable to inflict any real damage to my orcs, are slapped back pretty hard, and break, high ld or not. The new orc rules (the choppas, the Waaagh! and so on, really hurt elf armies, I think).
Very fun army to face anyway, it always end up with a massacre or major victory for either of us, there's no such thing as a draw :) (and I don't think their mpagic sucks, btw)

Braad
05-07-2007, 10:59
Be carefull with using the dragon in 2000 point games.
In my experience, for some opponents they are just near-immortal depending on what they have brought to battle, and then you already won the game to start with. (In that case, I was usually on the dying side...) I never experienced that as fun games. At a certain moment my O&G always had at least 2 bolt throwers to provide some high strength hitting, and a large part of the game was decided by if the dragon kills the bolt throwers first, or the bolt throwers kill the dragon...

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
05-07-2007, 15:55
Mmmmh, DE are my most common opponent. They're really all or nothing against me: if their tactics work, it hurts a lot, but usually, they just are unable to inflict any real damage to my orcs, are slapped back pretty hard, and break, high ld or not. The new orc rules (the choppas, the Waaagh! and so on, really hurt elf armies, I think).
Very fun army to face anyway, it always end up with a massacre or major victory for either of us, there's no such thing as a draw :) (and I don't think their mpagic sucks, btw)

interesting. I always play against orcs with my dark elves and we have yet to have a major victory or massacre. Far more fun that way.

*SQUEE*
06-07-2007, 09:28
I have been playing Warhammer for over 10 years and Dark Elves are by far the most entertaining army I have ever used. The models for the most part are amazing (except for the Hydra) but the lack of character models can suck if you are not so good on the conversion front.

Always use at least one unit of Dark riders with a musician. This is a unit that you use to bait your opponent into charging you. Always flee with this unit so you can set up charges on your turn in your favor, also try to position them so when you flee you expose the flanks of the enemy. Some people don't like to give there Dark Riders RXB but I always do as I find my opponent is more likely to charge them when 5 guys are pumping out 10 shots a turn.

I always use Cold Ones as I love the models but they can defenitly loss you games if you but them in a position where if they don't charge you will lose. Try to avoid putting to much of your battle plan around your calvary and they will do fine. A battle standard bearer with a Hydra banner can turn this unit into a nightmare for your opponent as well.

I always used to take two Repeter bolt throwers but the look better on paper then they are in the game. If you use them always fire them on multiple shot mode and they will do alright, and they DO NOT suffer a to hit penalty from fireing in multiple shot mode like most people think.

Just a few things I have learned over the years, take it as you will.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
06-07-2007, 21:19
2. Dark Elves rely on maneuvering and shooting. Take lots of Dark Riders and lots of small units. Never rank a unit other than your basic spearmen with shields. You have high leadership and elite stats, don't waste it in a back rank. Multiple charges beat rank bonuses any day.

Agreed. Warriors give you ranks and bait units, the other guys should be 10-12 strong


3. Ignore the rare choices section. It doesn't like you and you should learn to hate it.

While I don't completely agree with this, there is some truth to this comment and I did find it very amusing.


4. Resist the temptation to take a large unit of knights with a hero in it. Remember that stupid units should be used in a supporting role at best, and a non-vital one at that. Cold One Knights are only useful in that they cause fear. They are barely better than Empire Knightly Orders and they don't hold a candle to a lance formation or anything chaos ever did ever. They cost a huge amount and do very little. I don't like them at all, in fact, so much so that after testing them out with proxies I left them in the package and they remain unbuilt. I have eight or so blisters of COK's sitting on my shelf.

I completely agree. COK are horrible for their price, but sadly, there is not much in the DE army that has comparable hitting power. I use them in units of 5 if I use them at all, so that they don't ruin the entire game for me. Most DE players I know would prefer Silver Helms or Empire Knights any day of the week over COK. It only takes one instance of their Stupidity costing you a game to hate them forever.