PDA

View Full Version : Dark Eldar = Melnoboneans?



Relapse
24-06-2007, 04:48
I was thinking back to the time when GW put out Melnibonean models from the Elric series of books. Later on, it appeared the same models were repackaged as Elves for Warhammer. Add to this the fact that the Dark Eldar city in the web has many similarities to Elric's home city, ie. a depraved and cruel populace, only accessible through a tortuous route of maze like tunnels, and perhaps we can expect to see that the Dark Eldar will have the same thing happen to them as happened to Elric's people.
In the books, Elric turned traitor and led a force of fairly angry warriors through the maze to his city and helped destroy it. The few surviving Melnoboneans became mercs and wanderers on the planet after this.
It seems that GW has gotten a lot of their inspiration from Moorcock's books, so I can envision them doing a replay of his works with with the Dark Eldar.
I admit it's been sometime since I read the Elric series, but what I remember of it corresponds closely with the Dark Eldar fluff, perhaps someone who's read those books recently could help me out on this.

Kage2020
24-06-2007, 05:50
GW readily, and allegedly, plagia.... erm, draws inspiration from a wide variety of sources! ;) (To be honest, it's more homage than anything else.) It's really not that surprising that you can find some similarities between their work and material that you might have read, more so when it comes from the "classics" of sci-fi/fantasy.

Kage

twisted_mentat
24-06-2007, 07:20
Pretty much all fantasy made in the last...oh 30 or so years has three main sources;

Lord of the Rings
Conan
Elric.

Obviously there are other sources too, but these are the 3 big boys. You'll find the stuff in not just warhammer, but D&D and other PnP fantasy rpgs, basiclly every Fantasy novel written in that time period and every fantasy movie too.

So saying X ripped of Y is kind of silly. Not to mention Y ripped of Z in the first place!

Z being old myths and legends of various cultures around the world, primarily norse, celtic and Classical civilizations.

The thing is, GW is one of the few creative teams that takes fantasy stuff and sticks it into a sci-fi setting.

But i don't really see a lot to do with Elric and the DE, as Elric sort of feels bad about the stuff Stormbringer makes him do.

Feor
24-06-2007, 11:36
No Dark Eldar are going to be leading invaders to Commorragh, though. The Webway is guarded by the Herlequinns (and supposedly Cegorach himself) and non-Eldar are most assuredly not welcome to go wandering.

You can also make parrallels between the Dark Eldar and the Romulans of Star Trek, even if the "convoluted maze" to Romulus is more of a metaphorical maze of intrigue and paranoia.

TheLionReturns
24-06-2007, 11:53
Just to chip in one of the biggest sources of inspiration for the 40K universe is the Dune series of books for me.

superknijn
24-06-2007, 13:25
Not too mention Starship Troopers.
The sources for GW inspiration are too numerous to count, really.

Luthien
24-06-2007, 14:47
well to be fair science fantasy has been done so many times and in so many guises that it's impossible not to rip some one off, it's not malicious or anything just use of good ideas

Relapse
25-06-2007, 00:45
It appears I could have selected my words better. I wasn't making the Elric statement to say GW was ripping anyone off, but was wondering if a similar fate was in store for Commorragh. It would make for an interesting Dark Eldar character in a future codex if he were cast in the Elric mold, I think.

Kage2020
25-06-2007, 01:02
To be honest, I don't think that I would want to see GW get that... obvious in their homage. Especially if he joins with multiple versions of himself. ;)

Kage

kikkoman
25-06-2007, 22:26
Not too mention Starship Troopers.
The sources for GW inspiration are too numerous to count, really.

though nobody ever mentions 2000AD

Relapse
27-06-2007, 04:55
2OOO AD did have a lot of elements that ended up in 40k fer sure. Nemesis the Warlock, in my mind had the biggest influence for the way the game developed.

Fumble
27-06-2007, 15:15
Not too mention Starship Troopers.


... and just to precise to the young 'uns out there, superknijn is talking about the book by Heinlen, which the movie draws only some elements from.


As for the Melniboneans, I think they inspired both the Eldar and the Dark Eldar - the 2 races just show different aspects of the Melniboneans.
After all, they both live in "dreaming cities" like Immryr - the Melniboneans had slaves and carried sacrifices, revealing in sadism like the DE, but they also were great sorcerers, which the Eldars are.

That and the huge Empire-domination-over-the-rest-of-known-world thing.

Obviously, the Melniboneans inspired the high elves and all their dragon lords mythos, Teclis who pumps drugs in his body to be able to fight properly, not to mention the sword of Khaine...

Cheers,
ChL.

Templar Ben
27-06-2007, 15:59
Isn't Elric also where the divide of Order vs Chaos instead of Good vs Evil come from?

Quin 242
27-06-2007, 16:18
Pretty much all fantasy made in the last...oh 30 or so years has three main sources;

Lord of the Rings
Conan
Elric.

Obviously there are other sources too, but these are the 3 big boys. You'll find the stuff in not just warhammer, but D&D and other PnP fantasy rpgs, basiclly every Fantasy novel written in that time period and every fantasy movie too.

Dunno, Elric was a pretty well hidden, niche market audience.
Lord of the Rings certainly, and definately the Conan series contributed to the fantasy framework but Very little of the Elric fluff has been converted to games or other stories. The Elric RPG was mediocre at best and the "wizards are evil" never really caught on.

There are plenty of other works out there that have been biten into and others that have been wholely created by the authors so creditting these works for every idea is thin.

MrBigMr
27-06-2007, 16:45
2OOO AD did have a lot of elements that ended up in 40k fer sure. Nemesis the Warlock, in my mind had the biggest influence for the way the game developed.
Not to forget Adeptus Judg... Arbites.

Then there's Dune series.
-Mankind almost wiped by machines, mentats take the place of computers -> Men of Iron and Servitors.
-Lasweapons -> Lasweapons.
-God Emperor on a Golden Lion Throne -> Emperor on the Golden Throne.
-Spacing Guild and Navigators -> Navis Nobilitai(?) and Navigators.

Stahlgeist
27-06-2007, 17:50
I think the "regular" Eldar are pretty "melnibonean", really - decadent, haughty, aesthetic dying race that still has an edge on encrouching humanity. But the archetype goes back even further to Celtic mythology and stories of elves and "faerie".

+ "Dr. Jest" best torturer ever - "Torture is a performance art".

Kage2020
27-06-2007, 20:53
And thus the premise of the "monomyth" crops up once again. Go Campbell... ;) :eyebrows:

Kage