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Major Defense
15-08-2005, 11:00
So they say that when placing the template for a dragon's breath you put one end at his mouth and the other end over your target. Knowing that, how wide can this template go? Can he center it on a model at the edge of his 90 degree LoS or no? Can he place it shooting directly sideways and out of this LoS?

skavenguy13
15-08-2005, 11:32
Well, it has a LoS of 90 so he wouldn't see a target beside him. Logically, it would not shoot at that target if it doesn't see it.

T10
15-08-2005, 12:49
Normal arc of fire for units is 90 degrees to the front. However, if the UNIT has line of sight, then individual models within the unit may still fire their weapons even if the target is outside their personal 90 degree fire arc.

The same applies to monsters as a unit of one.

If the dragon can see a part of the unit then the entire* unit is eligible for the attack, not just the part within the arc of fire.

*) Entire menaing whatever the dragon can see that is not obstructed by blocking terrain or other models such as itself.

-T10

Joe Cool
15-08-2005, 13:50
Normal arc of fire for units is 90 degrees to the front. However, if the UNIT has line of sight, then individual models within the unit may still fire their weapons even if the target is outside their personal 90 degree fire arc.


Where is this said?

IIRC when a part of a unit can't see the target due to other units or terrain, those models that can't see can't shoot. In these cases the unit can divide its fire among multiple targets. Why would the situation be different from not seeing because outside 90 degree fire arc?

Major Defense
15-08-2005, 20:58
I think Joe has a point here and again we owe it to the unfortunate wording in the BRB's shooting section. As I understand it, each individual model in a unit has their own LoS. Sure, for simplicity's sake a rider and his mount share a LoS even though the rider's LoS would be smaller on foot. I would not extend this fudging to a unit of archers being able to fire from each other's LoS. Then you could have one stand out from behind a building and provide LoS for the others in a most unrealistic and unfair way.

I often have a line of 10 HE archers firing where some of them don't have 90 degrees to the intended target - or when some are at short range and some are at long range.

Festus
15-08-2005, 21:49
Hi

Correct Major:

LoS is taken on a model basis, not on a unit basis.
If some missile troops don't have LoS to a target, they can't fire whereas their mates in the unit who have LoS, can fire.

For the dragon this gives us the usual 90°AoF and LoS in which the template must be placed.

Greetings
Festus

Izram
15-08-2005, 23:00
so, can I center it on a model I can see, or must I keep the whole template within?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/Izram/template.jpg
red or blue?

Zeb
16-08-2005, 05:11
The problem with the BRB is the picture, it states that shoting is inded taken model wise.

T10
16-08-2005, 07:41
Where is this said?

IIRC when a part of a unit can't see the target due to other units or terrain, those models that can't see can't shoot. In these cases the unit can divide its fire among multiple targets. Why would the situation be different from not seeing because outside 90 degree fire arc?

Read more about this stuff in the rulebook. It's in the shooting section.

Your comments on dividing fire are correct, but do not apply in this situation (dragon's breath).

T10
16-08-2005, 08:07
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/Izram/template.jpg
red or blue?

Red.

The 90 degree arc of fire restricts for target aquisition. If no target is available then there is not shooting.

Now, since the idividual models in a unit can shoot at the target as long as they can draw line of sight to it, it follws that these shooting attacks can be made against the unit at more extreme angles.

Thus the unit's shooting attacks can in fact affect models in the target unit that are outside the unit's firing arc.

This doesn't really matter until you use a template weapon, though.

-T10

Major Defense
16-08-2005, 10:07
I don't think that a dragon needs LoS to a target to breathe. Not concrete about that but it just seems that that is the way they would intend it to work.

Yanos
16-08-2005, 10:21
I'm afraid they do, so says the FAQ here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/chronicles/faq/assets/warhammer-faq.pdf) :( . How I wish it wasn't, it'd increase my Hydra's usefulness 100%!