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View Full Version : Orc Boys, Sheild vs Additional HW



LuciusAR
28-06-2007, 10:35
I've been experimenting with my Orc list recently and I've become convinced that 2 HW's are is the way to go. I appreciate the superior survivability of the hw/shield combo however I really don't think survivability should be a factor for Orcs, dishing out the maximum amount of pain as quickly as possible should be the primary concern.

At least that's the way it should be from a fluff perspective. However I'm not sure if I'm going to get royally shafted games wise. Is the 4+ save really that vital, can I rely on just toughness 4 to survive the attacks back (assuming I charge first of course, and the extra attacks should mean less attacks back in theory) Do any of you guys have experience with the differences between the two?

Thanks in advance.

Causa Mortis
28-06-2007, 13:05
I am going to be starting orcs this summer so I have been wondering the same things as you.

I think I'm going to go for savage orcs with additional choppas. I think that extra attack is going to be vital. In the first round of combat each orc has 3 s4 attacks each, and unless I'm reading it wrong, the unit champion packs a mighty 4 s5 attacks in the first round of combat!

As for plain orc boyz I'm not so sure. Additional hand weapon is great but so is the save. It's down to what you prefer I guess and what role you want them to play. But additional hand weapon is definitely more choppy!;)

Avian
28-06-2007, 13:12
As I reckon it, it doesn't really matter all that much which combo you choose. Additional choppas are very nice provided you are not charged by something too nasty, while choppas and shields are slightly cheaper and makes for a more survivable unit. I tend to take one unit of each (and one with spears, for variety) in my mixed lists.

Vomax
28-06-2007, 14:32
You probably want your big blocks to carry choppas and shields, or even spears and shields, to be able to withstand a charge, and then have a smaller block with AHW for flanking.

nightstorm
28-06-2007, 16:54
Exactly what i do Vomax... the big units get the survivability and the smaller units get to flank and hit em hard. Although i am in two mind about black orcs... on the one hand i love a big unit 20+ but on the other thats alot of points to spend on one unit

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
28-06-2007, 18:27
For my common orcs I prefer choppa/ shield since they have a 4+ armour save. And for my savages I prefer double choppa, they pack quitte a lot of punch in combat.

Greetz
G

Baron Von Rotten
28-06-2007, 20:34
In the 6th edition, HW+S combo was definitely the way to go. In the 7th edition, the choice is a little tougher. (2)Str 4 attacks is hard to pass up. However, I like to field as many models as possible. I am Cheap. So I have to stick with the 4+ Armor save.

warlord hack'a
29-06-2007, 08:57
I give my svg boyz spears, gives me a lot of flexibility: get more attacks when charged or get higher S when charging..
As for normal orcs versus double choppa orcs, let's pitch them against each other as a sort of relative comparison:
when the single choppa orcs charge, 6 wide without champ, they will kill 1.5 double choppa orc, the remaning 4.5 double choppa orcs pack 9 attacks back, killing also 1.5 orc, so they even out in the 1st round of combat, in later rounds they will even out as long as the shield orcs strike first.
When the double choppa orcs charge they kill 2 orcs, and the orcs with shield kill only one double choppa orc back, so they double choppas win by 2 (1 for the kill, one for outnumber). In next rounds double choppas do slightly better (one dead shield orc versus 0.7 dead double choppa orc).

So one on one I would go for the double choppa ones, but this of course does not take into account:
- enemy missile fire
- enemies with a lot of attacks at S 3 or 4 (in which case your 4+ save can help a lot)
- and loads of other factors that differentiate the two

sun tzu
29-06-2007, 10:23
I have mainly the hand weapon shield combo but i do have 1 unit of the spear+shield combo and 2 small units of the 2 hand weapon combo units.

All seem to work well and i haven't been able to see any stand out above the others in games, orc boyz are good all round units:D

Shimmergloom
29-06-2007, 14:40
In the 6th edition, HW+S combo was definitely the way to go. In the 7th edition, the choice is a little tougher. (2)Str 4 attacks is hard to pass up. However, I like to field as many models as possible. I am Cheap. So I have to stick with the 4+ Armor save.

No it wasn't. Orcs couldn't get the bonus in 6th edition. The way to go with orcs in 6th was no extra equipment at all, to keep them as cheap as possible or take no orcs at all.

Crazy Harborc
30-06-2007, 01:20
Always.....I take a unit of BOs. Drives some regular opponents crazy. All those choices....more armour, GWs, extra HWs, etc.:D LARGE units of Orcs. I use 25 to 35 of da boys with choppas and shields....Rank/line em up 6 and 7 across.:D

Cornholio
30-06-2007, 14:27
If you are trying to protect every last orc in your army you are gonna get run over. part of being a ruthless general is having a great deal of fun every time your orcs smash into the enemy. this aside, having shields does make the boyz harder to hit so they can bash the gitz better.

*hehehehehehehehehe....FIREarms!!!!....hehehehhehe *

Crazy Harborc
30-06-2007, 20:20
As a gamer, I have a "need", from time to time......to just CHARGE. I drag out the greenies, fire up Army Builder......and do the Waaaaagh!! Oh dear me...I do hope I did not offend anyone:angel: :evilgrin:

Lord_Byron
01-07-2007, 00:56
I built all my orc boyz with choppa + shield, but I'm wishing I built at least one unit with 2 x choppa, because I play against dwarf and empire quite a bit, and the extra save of the shield is no good vs gunpowder.

I always bring one unit of savages with 2 x choppa as my general's bodyguard. Immune to psychology keeps my leadership 9 from getting panicked off the table, and I very rarely get screwed by having to charge from frenzy, as most of the time I'd charge my boyz anyway.

xenotaph
01-07-2007, 15:57
This is my take on things:
Orc boyz: For me, choppa and shield are the mainstay of my forces with full command. I prefer my dual choppa wielding orcs to have shields though and the shields do seem to pay for themselves most of the times when being shot at (I usually only give them a musician though).

Savage orcs. Dual choppa always.

Big uns. I think choppa/shield is the best combo if you ever have these. They are expensive enough as is and I really don't think the extra points for an extra choppa is worth it. Oh, and always with full command.

warlord hack'a
02-07-2007, 08:55
dual choppa savages are fragile when charged, but hit VERY hard when charging.

I prefer choppa and spear on my savages, gives me more flexibility.

Urgat
02-07-2007, 12:57
In the 6th edition, HW+S combo was definitely the way to go. In the 7th edition, the choice is a little tougher.

Not so much when your most regular opponent is a shooty DE army :P (was it anyway? HW+shield in 6th edition was terrible, if you ask me)
Me takes da shields over anything else when the pointy ears show up... And one choppa is still enough to crush them when I get mano a mano:
yesterday night, 3 battles at 1000 points, I got two massacres, the DE got the third one (massacre too). No man standing in the loser's camp for either of the three battles. They were pretty violent, goddamn fun, we've decided to play more 1000 points battles and less 2000+ ones.
Anyway, I really learned the value of 5+ saves instead of 6+ yesterday.

Baron Von Rotten
03-07-2007, 04:44
No it wasn't. Orcs couldn't get the bonus in 6th edition. The way to go with orcs in 6th was no extra equipment at all, to keep them as cheap as possible or take no orcs at all.

I stand corrected.

stefking666
04-07-2007, 09:27
i always go with the shield and HW

that extra armour has saved my life so many times

The Dark One
04-07-2007, 09:49
i use choppa and shield a lot more than an additional choppa