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kiron
03-07-2007, 18:30
just wondering around

I was wondering what some wish list might be for WH sisters.

Here are a few of mine:

Make a canoness 0-1 choice, extra WS and I, but increase points by 10, palantine has same stats.

Change the book to only affect model with adepta soritas rule, increase points to 10 and can only be taken by sister HQ, but increase ld. to 12" (this way people may take palantines).

Decrease points of litanies of faith to 20.

No clue what to do with celestians, maybe if taken with retinue, allow the HQ to benefit from holy hatred. Give them true grit and allow only them to use a prayer that grants them the ability to fight with power weapons in cc for a turn if rolling under their model count? increase points by 1 for the abilities.

Repentia, honestly reduce by 5 points.

Sisters are fine the way they are, maybe decrease the point of VSS to 10.

Make all imagifiers to 10 points and if unit has more than 14 models make 5 points.

Seraphim, can't really think of much, except allow HQ to hit and run with them.

Dominion, if taken, the immolator is now 50 points for a transport instead of 65.

Exorcists, maybe a 10 points hike

Retributers, no change, 0-1 unit maybe allow blessed ammunition upgrade for 5 points a HB?

Immolators, uh...increase armor by 1 to front and side and allow carry up to 8 models for same cost (exception only costs 50 if taken with dominians)

don't know about engine, take out open top! reduce points by 15.

EVIL INC
03-07-2007, 18:38
Only true wish I have for them is to make plastic models. They would still be an expensive army to play but that would make them playable by more then just the filthy rich.
Dont think they are even considering it, but it would make them more money as it would undoubtedly start a new wave of "new armies" and possibly draw in new players as more female gamers would find a more welcoming army that they can play and "roleplay".

Worsle
03-07-2007, 18:55
Cannoness will not be returning the 0-1 the fluff has changed and given the new trend the palatine is more likely to just go or be majorly retooled, the cannoness is also one of the best charicters in the game she does not need marine stats. Other than a lot of the general points changes that have come in with the current codexs I don't think the sisters them selves need to much work, it is the rest of the codex that has real issues. The inquisitorial units and ecclesiarchy units all need some real work to get them to the point of being worthwhile units.

VigdisVZ
03-07-2007, 19:54
More options for models. I would also like for them to be able to field a land-raider without an inquisitor.

Lord_Magellan
03-07-2007, 22:10
Some nice anti armor options, so we aren't restricted to relying on 'Cists.

Plastic models - what I wouldn't give. My sisters have been collecting dust while I build 3000+ point of new dark angels, and one of my great pleasures in converting the lads and making them unique. Sisters are so difficult to convert at all it's just not worth the time.

Something that gives us a large template option.

efarrer
03-07-2007, 22:19
just wondering around

I was wondering what some wish list might be for WH sisters.

Here are a few of mine:


Repentia, honestly reduce by 5 points.


and new models with 4+ armour on them. The current models are at best a - armour model.

:D

Vet.Sister
03-07-2007, 23:33
This thread http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73770
contains my ideas.

Minister
03-07-2007, 23:57
Re-introduction of squad heavy weapons for the basic troops

Repentia having armour save removed and granted Feel No Pain, Holy Hatred as standard ratehr than a possibility and possibly the +2 attacks on the charge of the Blood Claws, because 1) they're not wearing any clothes let alone carapace armour and 2) they suck in game terms

Grant the option for Celestians to take pistol and close combat weapon and/or give them the True Grit rule. Some models specific to them (with the nice helmets and a level of detail comparable to the newer Marine vets) would be nice.

Reduction in the points of the Seraphims' melta-bombs upgrade.

Reduction in the points cost of Priests to about 20 points, or the inclusion of laspistol, CCW and Rosarius for no increase in cost (likewise for the Guard).

studderigdave
04-07-2007, 00:17
i just hope they keep faith points. im just now getting into witch hunters and sisters. this will be my first army that i havent played before, so im worried about making an army and having the a redone codex mess it all up. my list is pretty basic but i still dont want it ruined.

mistformsquirrel
04-07-2007, 00:32
Only true wish I have for them is to make plastic models. They would still be an expensive army to play but that would make them playable by more then just the filthy rich.
Dont think they are even considering it, but it would make them more money as it would undoubtedly start a new wave of "new armies" and possibly draw in new players as more female gamers would find a more welcoming army that they can play and "roleplay".

Not just this - but also just some people might LOVE the Inquisition or Sisters of Battle - but find them prohibitive to play. That's where my initial passion lay; I moved to other ideas partly due to the huge cost.

My wishlist... Improvements to Sisters Repentia and Penitent Engines would be the BIG one really.

Beyond that; I'd just like some more poses available, hopefully a plastic set would be alot more manipulatable than the current metals. The current range *looks* great; but its just... limited. I guess that's really my point. More options there.

Oh, obviously - Improvements to Inquisitors. I'm not certain what to suggest frankly; but I'd *LOVE* to see them and their retinues be a bit more useful in battle.

The thing I love about the Retinues is the idea that, while there is a whole army out there; often made up of nameless redshirts - the Retinue is (to me) the "Fellowship of the Rings" at the battle of Helm's Deep - they're the heroic group that has many varied abilities and can perform many functions effectively. They may not individually be the greatest, but they should work together to become a powerful whole.

A possible thought actually, would be to be able to split a retinue up into sub-units that could join with other units.

For example: You could take an Inquisitor, 3 Crusaders, 2 Sages and 2 Penitent Witches.

You could then stick your Crusaders and Inquisitors in say... a Sister Repentia squad, whilst the Sages go to a Retributor Squad or Stormtrooper unit, and the Penitents perhaps protect a unit of Arco-Flaggelants. (I'm not saying this is an ideal retinue by any stretch - merely an example of how it could work out)

The advantage here would be that you get to retain the colorfulness and character of an Inquisitor and retinue - but the retinue isn't hampered by having too many varied abilities and thus not being able to focus properly. Perhaps also allow a couple 'minor' characters to appear in addition to the regular retinue members.

For instance, an Inquisitor Lord could also take a regular 2-Wound Inquisitor as a part of the Retinue as well. A sort of Step Up from the Acolytes.

I'm just musing really; just some thoughts.
I

mistformsquirrel
04-07-2007, 00:34
i just hope they keep faith points. im just now getting into witch hunters and sisters. this will be my first army that i havent played before, so im worried about making an army and having the a redone codex mess it all up. my list is pretty basic but i still dont want it ruined.

I genuinely doubt they'd remove faith - that's a HUGE component of the character of the Sisters of Battle. Getting rid of faith would almost be like saying "Here, you are now playing with Codex: Not Quite Marines". *shudder*

--

*Edit* Minister - I LIKE how you think! Great ideas there!

fracas
04-07-2007, 01:30
1. models: while plastic models would be nice, i do worry that their quality would not be as good as the current range. i also suspect that if they go plastic then most of them will be helmeted, and the current metals will become celestians. more likely they will expand the current model range to have separate models for the celestians.

2. army list: i have never played with the repentia so i have no comments there. the celestians need to be tweeked somehow to make them even more appealing. perhaps give them the option of taking the Repressor tank as a transport option. speaking of transport, i think the rhino ought to be 5-10 pts cheaper. the troop choice are fine as is. so is fast and heavy imo.

3. the rules: the acts of faith are great and a must keep.

4. the codex: i want them separated from the inquisition and get their own SoB codex.

Kulgur
04-07-2007, 05:16
Something so that repentia survive long enough to actually use their eviscerators
Fixing the Exorcist model so it isn't such a pain to assemble
I would say some more long range firepower, but that's veering away from the "burny" aspect that is so very characterful

ChrisAsmadi
04-07-2007, 09:41
My one and only wish.

That that stupid book of St Lucius either becomes 1 per army, or gets renamed.

I mean, how many books did this guy write?!

Wonna
04-07-2007, 09:53
1. models: while plastic models would be nice, i do worry that their quality would not be as good as the current range. i also suspect that if they go plastic then most of them will be helmeted, and the current metals will become celestians. more likely they will expand the current model range to have separate models for the celestians.

Given the increase in quality for plastics these days, I'm not so concerned about any significant loss in quality. And I don't thing helmet-less plastic sisters will be too much of a problem.

Minister
04-07-2007, 12:10
My one and only wish.

That that stupid book of St Lucius either becomes 1 per army, or gets renamed.

I mean, how many books did this guy write?!

Printing. Press.

Son of Makuta
04-07-2007, 12:49
Minister & Mistformsquirrel: You da boyz! I love your ideas :D

BaronDG
04-07-2007, 12:54
I'd be happy if the celestians got a free sarissa. Why is it even in the armoury? Has any model really been made with it?

apaosha
04-07-2007, 13:18
Have special "machinery" in the models which only becomes activated when you are facing daemonettes ....

(f'nar)

Also, an ability to represent their unassailable nagging skills would not go unremarked .....

studderigdave
04-07-2007, 13:51
i would like access to inferno cannons too.

Minister
04-07-2007, 14:08
Other points:

Inclusion of the Zealots in the core list, and the removal of Incinerators (which make cannon fodder better than the Guard). Possible reduction to WS and BS 2 with coresponding reduction in points. The squad is armed with autoguns OR autopistol and CCW OR shotgun under the mob weapons rule.

Change of the Storm Troopers to bring them in line with the Guard Codex (and perhaps giving them Infiltrate/Deep Strike for free, which would actually make them a viable choice compared to the Sisters without making them better than the Sisters).

Inquisitors who take psychic powers are psykers. Inquisitors who do not are not. Whilst you're at it, the Vortex power was an Inquisition one in Dark Millennium. Take it off of the Space Marines and put it back where it belongs.

Inquisitorial Retinues get a 4+ save across the board. Whilst it might not be quite in line with the background, it simplifies the rules no end. Increase the points accordingly. Chrigeons ignore the first wound on the unit, not the first wound on the Inquisitor.

Introduce Ephrael Stern as a special character. She was rather nifty, and would not be well served by counting as a living saint.

Psycannon bolts are not restricted to Inquisitors. It's a small point, but worthwhile.

Reduce the points of the Eviscerator to 20?

Laud Hailers increase the combat resolution of Adepta Sororitas units within 6" by 1, in the same way as and stacking with the Sacred Standard. Increase the points to 20 and restrict to HQ transports.

The Exorcist and other Sisters tanks are explicitly stated as such. Sisters HQ, Fast Attack and Heavy Support (not Elites) cannot be taken without at least one Sisters troops choice.

silashand
04-07-2007, 15:05
I think the Sisters themselves work fine, though they are a bit limited. About the only thing I would like are plastic models for the troops, new models for Celestians & Dominions, and another decent tank for the Sisters side.

The ecclesiarchy stuff on the other hand is pretty crap IMO. I never much liked the idea of the random ecclesiarchy stuff in the Sisters list anyway. However, to fix a few of the problems as I see them:

1. return heavy flamers as an option to Retributors
2. make multimeltas actually worth taking for Rets
3. dominions are far too expensive to field a full squad with anything. They also should be armed with storm bolters by default
4. Immolator should have AV12 in the front like other actual *tanks*
5. arcos really need new models. the current ones are butt ugly just like the repentias. They probably should also lose the dying on a 6 rule since they are so fragile to shooting
6. plastic penitent engines. The metals make them hard to field decent sized units. With the frenzied nature of the thing I think it should have fleet to help it actually close with the enemy before it dies.
7. Inquisitors, psychic powers & wargear seem fine, though a few are no brainers like the book, which I would also restrict to Sororitas units.
8 . Seraphim definitely should keep hit & run as it is extremely characterful and appropriate for them, not to mention useful.
9. the Palatine I don't find a lot of use for as the Canoness is a far better choice overall. Never liked the name Palatine anyway (preferred the Celesine Superior from the playtest dex). There needs to be a lower level sororitas heroine, so something to differentiate her from her superior would be nice, but I can't think of anything right now.
10. Canoness should not cause Seraphim to lose H&R if she has a jump pack and joins them.
11. Sisters need a decent FA choice other than Seraphim (Dominions as they are just don't cut it). Personally, I like the idea of bikes/ATVs, but I know some do not.
12. Immolator should be allowed sponsons if it sacrifices its transport capability (MM, HB or HF only). As it is, a single weapon destroyed result and it's useless.
13. Immolator twin-linked HFs should use two HF templates side by side, not the stupid re-roll to wound rule. It's too easy to negate before it ever gets into combat. If it's going to be fragile/lightly armed, then it needs to be more effective when it *does* get a chance to burn something. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually gotten to fire the thing in over 5 years of gaming with them.
14. Storm troopers need to be more like their IG counterparts, i.e. infiltrate/deep strike. As it is now they are not much of a choice from the Sisters.
15. Ephrael Stern needs to be a special character period. Celestine is fine, but Stern represents them better I think, as would Silas Hand as an Inquisitor (instead of that ridiculous Karamazov on his walking chair).

I'm sure there are things I've forgotten, but that's about it for now...

Cheers, Gary

logosloki
04-07-2007, 16:10
PLASTICs

make repentia either cheaper or give them feel no pain

increase the points cost of the exorcist

make a standard line for the retinue for inquisitors (4+ save for clarity)

make inquisitors only psychic if they take psychic powers or wargear.

I'd like to see clarification on the Shield of faith rule

and I want it all bundled up in a monster sized codex:inquisition, with all the inquisition in it(incl. xenos). with option of black leather hardcover.

Icarus
04-07-2007, 21:01
Personally I feel the army is mostly good. However there are a few things I would like changed.

- Sisters Repentia cheaper, without armour, Feel No Pain.
- Celestians made more special. Should be able to take some really nice wargear.
- Move non-transporting Immolators to Fast Attack.
- A new tank, somewhere between an Immolator and an Exorcist.
(My own idea for this is something like a 12/12/10 vehicle with the ability to take Multimeltas or an Inferno Cannon).
- More and better balanced Acts of Faith. Right now a couple are used repeatedly, whilst others are almost always neglected. I would like to see all Acts of Faith be decent, but not insanely good.

Richter Kless
04-07-2007, 22:47
It has already been said, but I want the zaelots in the next list.

bertcom1
05-07-2007, 14:27
Why do so many people complain about the Book of St. Lucius, when it doesn't work for target priority, and when Space Marines have Rites of Battle which gives every squad Ld10 for everything regardless of where they are in relation to the commander?

Anyways, for a heavier vehicle than the Immolator, what about this vehicle that I have mentioned before?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67362

silashand
05-07-2007, 14:55
Why do so many people complain about the Book of St. Lucius, when it doesn't work for target priority, and when Space Marines have Rites of Battle which gives every squad Ld10 for everything regardless of where they are in relation to the commander?

Anyways, for a heavier vehicle than the Immolator, what about this vehicle that I have mentioned before?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67362

I think folks complain mostly that it is almost a no-brainer item to take is all and seems to take away from choosing other options. JMO though...

I suggested that to Gav back when we still had the blackdex list as an option to upgrade the Immolator if you sacrificed its transport capability. Adding another vehicle option would only be appropriate if you changed its stats, i.e. the AV of the thing. If so 13/12/11 would probably be appropriate. There was a trial vehicle in the original playtest codex called (I think) the Purifier or Purgator (been a while and I'm not looking at it right now). Granted, it was an Ecclesiarchy vehicle with a turret mounted plasma cannon, but the name was cool. I won't get into the plasma debate as it is and has been a volatile subject among Sisters players as to whether it fits their fluff (IMO it does simply because it's a type of fire and the Sisters do like to burn things ;))...

Cheers, Gary

DarthSte
05-07-2007, 15:39
Plastic sisters...

stjohn70
05-07-2007, 15:44
Drop pods.... just makes me feel all tingly inside.

TheEndIsHere
05-07-2007, 15:49
I won't get into the plasma debate as it is and has been a volatile subject among Sisters players as to whether it fits their fluff (IMO it does simply because it's a type of fire and the Sisters do like to burn things ;))...

Plasma and fire are as clsoe to each other as electricity and a battery... Sis' should not get plasma.

TheEnd

bertcom1
05-07-2007, 16:01
There was a trial vehicle in the original playtest codex called the Purifier or Purgator. Granted, it was an Ecclesiarchy vehicle with a turret mounted plasma cannon, but the name was cool. I won't get into the plasma debate as it is and has been a volatile subject among Sisters players as to whether it fits their fluff

Well, the thing I am building (slowly!) is intended to be 13/11/10, with a turret containing a 36" or 48" twin linked melta weapon, possibly with blast. And sponson options of heavy flamers or heavy bolters.


Drop pods.... just makes me feel all tingly inside.

drop pods, and to a lesser extent jump packs allowing deep strike are a bit close to making sisters "Diet Marines - Same flavour, less than half the fat", enough people already think Sisters=bewbsMarines, I would like a bit of distance between them.

For Marines, Drop pods imply starship support, and Deep Striking Jump packs are apparently from Thunderhawks.

Ecclesiarchy forces don't usually have their own aerospace assets, that comes from Navy or Inquisition sources...

Hmmm, taking an Inquisitor Lord allow Sisters and Storm Troopers to use drop pods (Cheaper than SM ones) and deep strike jumppacks, representing Inquisition aerospace being present? Need Inquisitor for Orbital Strike after all - which suggests Inquisition spaceships on hand. Also means pure Sisters are distinctly different from Sisters with Inquisition.

But is that too close to being Marines-Lite?

silashand
05-07-2007, 20:09
Plasma and fire are as clsoe to each other as electricity and a battery... Sis' should not get plasma.

So you wouldn't get shocked by both? To each their own. Suffice to say I disagree :). Considering that the *only* high/med strength weapon the Sisters have is the melta/multimelta (and I have yet to see a multimelta wielded by a Sister on foot since well before the CA list since they are patently overcosted for infantry period), You'd think they would add *something* to the list. Bolters/flamers/meltas are nice, especially since you can make them AP1 with AOF, but really, one more decent anti-vehicle weapon wouldn't be too much to ask IMO. Of course, if they fixed the MM then I would retract that statement as I would actually prefer to use them, they just aren't worth it now.

All this said, they could also use another "Sisters" tank IMO even if it was only an Immy variant with sponsons. Having the melta/flamer/bolt combo would make for an interesting variant that isn't present really in any other army. JMO though. Of course, now that an interesting variant has been suggested GW will undoubtedly give it to one of the Marine chapters just because they can... </sarcasm>

As for the drop pod/deep strike argument, the CA Ordo Hereticus Strike Force list that Andy H penned before the WH codex would be an interesting option for an inquisition force. I actually spoke with Andy via mail about that and his reply was he'd like to do something for the OHSF, but could only do it if time allowed. IMO it would definitely make the combination of Sisters & Inquisition more appealing since basically by doing so it would allow certain units to arrive in drop pods (Celestians / Sisters) and Seraphim to deep strike. Always liked that short list and was a bit disappointed they didn't integrate some of the ideas into the final codex. Would have made bringing Inquisitors a bit more appealing IYAM, but whatever...

Cheers, Gary

Icarus
06-07-2007, 01:48
Idea for a new kind of unit - Huntresses. Lightly armoured Sisters leading packs of large cat-like creatures (Hunter Gyrinxes?). Fluff-wise they could be for rooting out hidden targets. On the tabletop they could move as Cavalry and the cats could be really nasty on the charge, but weak in protracted combats. Would be something a bit different in a Sisters army.

silashand
06-07-2007, 06:44
Idea for a new kind of unit - Huntresses.

Either that or cyber-dog handlers, bred and altered to sniff and root out psykers...

Cheers, Gary

fracas
06-07-2007, 20:07
i think the use of animals would go against their theme of reliance on faith.

BaronDG
07-07-2007, 15:14
Isn't there a rhino variant in one of the Imperial armour books? Does anyone use it or would use it if it were to creep into the main rules?

bertcom1
07-07-2007, 15:42
Isn't there a rhino variant in one of the Imperial armour books? Does anyone use it or would use it if it were to creep into the main rules?

The Repressor? A few people already use it.

If it appeared in the codex, more people might use it, as long as it was appropriately costed. With the cost of a Rhino falling in the more recent codexes, a Repressor should also come down in cost.

BaronDG
08-07-2007, 13:40
So, what did the repressor do? There was something about many firepoints, right?

bertcom1
08-07-2007, 15:52
yes, lots of models could fire from a Repressor.