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Finnigan2004
04-07-2007, 03:03
I'm just finishing painting up my lizardmen, and I'm planning to use the following list. The list will be used in highly competitive environments, so feel free to be brutally honest. I'm painting them with reddy-orange markings to make them a sacred host of Sotec (but can fudge it to make it Chotec too). That means my skinks will choose spells from the lore of beasts (fire if Chotec). I'm looking for suggestions on this list. I have other models, and am looking to expand the list, so feel free to suggest other models too. Here's the list:

Slaan mage priest 585 pts.
2nd generation
plaque of dominion
plaque of Tepok
diadem of power
army battle standard

Skink priest lvl. 2 155 pts. (goes with scouting unit of skinks)
mark of Sotek
scout
rod of the storm

Skink priest lvl. 2 150 pts. (goes with kroxigor screening unit of skinks)
mark of Sotek
blood statuette of spite

10 skinks with blowguns 80 pts.
mark of Sotek
scouts

10 skinks with blowguns
mark of Sotek 70 pts.

15 temple guard 305 pts.
full command
shields

6 saurus cavalry 285 pts.
full command
Huanchi's blessed Totem

3 kroxigors 174 pts.

3 salamanders 195 pts.

1999 pts.

casting dice: 11 (the slann gets to add 1 dice +1 to each spell cast)
dispel dice: 7 (+1 on dispel attempts)

Thanks for you input.

Makarion
04-07-2007, 03:24
This is from an Empire player who has faced Lizardmen many, many times. Also, I have watched battles betweent he Lizardmen and other armies of some variety.

1. For my opponent, the Salamanders never seem to work well enough. They're not killy enough to rip up heavy cavalry and solid missile fire deals them a dead blow. If you want to use them, include plenty of handlers. Randomizing the hits of even S3 bow fire will soon lead to dead handlers, and it's only down hill from there.

2. Kudos on using Skink Scouts (and not Chameleon Skinks). Versatile unit, and still cheap enough to sacrifice.

3. Drop the musician off the Saurus Cavalry. Either they break something on the charge (no problems), they are being charged (they should easily make their Ld test to rally, but they may be overrun by enemy cavalry), or they are being shot at (they die, if it's in decent quantities).

4. I assume that the unit of 10 regular skinks is double-dutying as screen for both Kroxigors and Cavalry? You may need a few more....

5. I'm personally not impressed by the Blood Statuette. Even against elves there's a 50% chance it does nothing. Spend the points on more numbers in the field.

6. I realise that Huanchi's totem is a mainstay of Lizardmen armies, but I feel that the Jaguar Standard is actually better. Set up a flank charge and run happily across his front line, even if he's got his blocks spread out. That should slow his advance sufficiently down that your magic can win you the day. Because it will have to, with so many point sunk into it.

7. If you drop the Salamanders alltogether, you could consider adding a Stegadon. It's a great tar pit with US 8. If you use it as a mount for your skink priest, it's US 9, and he's a rather well-protected conduit for your Slann's magical mayhem.

That's just some random musings. Now I'm off to grab food :)

kroq'gar
04-07-2007, 03:44
I disagree, keep huanchis. you can march and then activate for surefire charges against the likes of bretonians and elves who will destroy your saurus cav if they get the charge with their longer range.

Next, DONT scout your skink priest- he'll die.

Keep the salamanders, there better than they are given credit for. A single stegadon will attract alot of missile fire, two isnt worth it from my experience-if they can kill one, they can kill two.

Your realying alot on magic as well, which means your either going to win in that phase, or lose the game, you just dont have the numbers to compete against a balanced army.

If they shutdown your magic phase, your in trouble. Dont cast with your skinks before your slann, their miscasts can end the phase. When selecting your slanns spells, choose the default from each spellist unless you roll something great. This way you have alot of low powered spells you can easily cast to get that +1 free dice to power up in addittion to his base bonus for being slann.

The army is well and trully and eggs in one basket, and your opponents wont like it, noone like to take a fair and balanced army only to have a maxed out uber lord and his drinking buddies carve it up.

Makarion
04-07-2007, 03:55
Huanchis sounds really great, but it's a lot of points for a one-use item in my opinion. Given that his numbers are small, his cavalry will need to perform it's trick several times... I'd go for Jaguar, the old War Banner, or keep them vanilla with not even a standard bearer, so as not to give away 100 VP. This latter option is a serious consideration if you expect a lot of shooting. Their 3+ save isn't the world's best, especially at >30 points a pop.

Finnigan2004
04-07-2007, 04:09
Thanks guys. I hear what you're saying about the army kroq' gar, and I have variation lists too. I've gauged the opposition, and this is for tournaments where there are other unbalanced lists. I usually actually take pretty characterful lists, but I've shown up with an army list comprised entirely of the drinking buddies and been massacred whenever I do that:rolleyes:. I play in different places, and some are less competitive (I like these best) and some are more competitive. The metagame at the place I'll use them often involves 60 rifles and two steam tanks, two treemen, or five Brettonian lances-- sometimes it's fun, others less so. The only non negotiable in the list is the saurus cavalry because 1) they look cool and 2) they were a birthday present from my wife (must be on the table and be SEEN) :). On another note, which mark would people take-- Sotec or Chotek? The main benefit seems to be spell lists, and I see Sotek (beasts) as great for support of my units while Chotek (fire) is obviously great for simply killing stuff.

kroq'gar
04-07-2007, 04:32
Im a fan of direct damage- go fire.

And with Huanchi's totem i've wipedout units of grail knights, dragon knights, wildriders, boarboys.

Basically, when your in that standoff position you inevitabley have with cavalry, march fowards 14 inches, activated for a free extra d6 movement.

or reform and d6 in the the rear of that unit you are standing behind.

it is worth its weight in gold.

Im not a fan of places that are so compatative people take 'i want to win lists' over the good old characterful ones...

...like my clanrat hoard for example...

Nickn
04-07-2007, 14:52
this is advice from a tomb king player who has played against lizzards way to many times

drop the temple guard yer slannhas to go in it and thats about 900 points in1 unit! it would really suck if my chariots flank it and my tomb guard are hitting it head on you lose combat chariots pursue 3d6 you lose 900 points cuz you got flanked. you will findd saurus calvery dont work in big units i would take 2 units of 5 some terradons and kroxigor. give all yer skinks scout even the ones you use as a screan as a lizzy player you need to go first. drop the skink priest out of the shield unit and replace iit with a scar vet. i also recomend 2 units of saurus 15 strong put yer scar vet in one cuz you need rank and file combat res. WHEN YOU FIELD THIS UNIT GUARD ITS FLANKS i cant stress that enough im constantly slaughtering lizzies cuz my opponent never whatches his flanks once i held up a unit fo saurus andascar vet for 4 turns with 5 heavy calvery just cuz i got its flank.

any way good luck

Rathstar
04-07-2007, 16:51
Hi,

I like the slann set-up, but also consider adding in the war banner, as I believe that you should also consider dropping the temple guard for normal suarus warriors. Having temple guard forces your slann to be with them having all loads of pts in one unit. With the temple guard being small you could find they are wiped out from early shooting and then combat.

Having saurus warriors means you have the option to join or leave them with the slann. Also as you have the special slot free you could give them a second sacred spawning (the extra scaly skin save would be my recommendation).

Having so much magic you need to give your army time for your magic to be effective, so I would recommend swapping the 2nd priest (he's only adding 2 power dice to your magic phase) for a Charm of the Jaguar Scar Vet. He can stay with the saurus warriors to protect the slann or he can dash out to beat up knights, chariots etc.

Also I think you should try to squeese in another unit of skinks, as they are useful in delaying the enemy, and diverting units away from you main battle line.

Rathstar

CarlostheCraven
05-07-2007, 03:54
Hi

Looking at your list, I see some powerful units but a lack of synergy.

The Toad - I tend to do one of three things with mine - either very low key on its own, tooled up on its own, or tooled up with a unit of temple guard.
Option one consists of the Slann, fourth gen, and the plaque of protection.
Option two is like yours except plaque of protection instead of plaque of dominion. - Staying alive is more important than one extra dice.
Option three - like yours only with Cupped hands - provide the boys some protection. Also toss in the totem of prophecy if there is any chance you will be facing fear causing opponents - one vampire with 30 skellies could rock your 900 pt unit. :cries:

I am not a fan of expensive one use only bound items. Retool with dispel scrolls and/or power stones or nothing at all.

Your skinks - if you run sotek use javelin and shield - two attacks each with a 5+ save means you might actually win a combat or two. Javalins have significant advantages over blowpipes (they are not necessarily better, but they allow a more mobile harassment style of play, something you definitely want so that your toad has time to literally work his magic.) Throw in Skink priests with bear's anger and you actually have some punch.

If you are spending points on Temple Guard go all the way - take 20 and a warbanner.

Love the Cav, love the Blessed Totem, perhap push the unit up to seven strong.

Drop the Krox, they add little to your army. Besides, I can't recommend all the increases I have been throwing out without taking somewhere else. :p

Love the sallies - Makarion - if your friend has not has success with them then he just isn't putting them to the right use.

Cheers,
Carlos the Craven

aenimosity
06-07-2007, 05:58
This is probably gonna sound pretty docile, but how do you make the army a sacred host of chotec or whatever? I've just picked up the lizardman army book and I can't see where you can get your skink priests to choose the lore of fire and so on.

Can you help me out with a page number? Or is it in another book entirely? (like armageddon for 40k)

Cheers for any help.

kroq'gar
06-07-2007, 09:24
Speaking as a player who has been using lizardmen since 1997, yes he could drop the temple guard, and have a mv4 creature that cannot fight in combat. Shame if those chariots happened to flank him (as a monster) and took the general, the bsb and the bonus points for a 2nd gen.

plus your having a laugh if you think you'll get magic movment off against an army this heavy in magic, he'd be isolated and it'd just be the lord. he'd also be forced early in the highreichy to do it. A slan is +1 dispel, meaning he can basically roll 1 under all your rolls and still dispell- i know, i've blasted tombkings before (st 7, 5 attack mv9 saurus hero vs chariot unit)

Temple guard are extremely useful, if your putting that many points into a lord, its worth going allout on a bodyguard.

secondly, the only thing i see you need is more skink skirmishers with javs.
i field waves of them, they can take out crew in combat, pelt tougher targets with poison, or heavily damage ranks all whilst moving 6.

i surround an enemy elite unit with them and flee from charges whilst the others throw javs. Also dont forget that krox can charge through your own skinks as well, they can choke a battle field, i take usually about 40-60 in units of 10, only 1 of these needs to be scouts. Golden rule with them. Never keep them stationary.

Finnigan2004
06-07-2007, 17:19
Hi aenimosity:

You can find the rules for sacred hosts on the uk site in the lizardmen section. I find that they just add a little variety and character to the army. They're also in an old white dwarf, but if you don't collect white dwarf, just search around the uk site and download them.

To the others-- thanks for the advice, although I must admit that I hate you all because I have to make and paint more skinks AARGH. Nah, seriously, thanks for the advice.