PDA

View Full Version : Theme or Cheesyness



Griffin
04-07-2007, 09:54
Righto - gonna play a game tonite - I'm using my Ghostwarrior army and my buddy is bringing his SM.

HQ - Captain bare essentials

Troops - 2x 5 man tac squads

Heavy support - 3x Devastator squads with 4x Heavy bolter, 4x Lascannon, 4x Missile launcher.

What do you think ? Is that a theme or just pure cheese seeing as we both know in advacne what armies are going to be fighting ? I'm using Farseer with fortune, 10 man wraithguard+seer squad, 2 wraithlords, squad of guardians and some Warpspiders.

Cheese or theme ?

Lord Malorne
04-07-2007, 09:56
For points i'd drop the lascannon armed dev squad and get some vets for your tactical squads and some plasma guns. what traits have you taken!

Wonna
04-07-2007, 09:57
I smell blue-vein.

Lord Malorne
04-07-2007, 09:59
I smell blue-vein.
Dirty bugger! :eek:

Son of Makuta
04-07-2007, 10:13
That's pretty cheesy. Sorry, very cheesy.

Griffin
04-07-2007, 10:14
He is playing SM not me - he's using full on 10man dev squads. Oh well - I'll march up the table and trust in my 5+ cover saves.

Lord Malorne
04-07-2007, 10:16
Wouldn't that be 4+ cover is it not an urban board...well if he's using the SM...good luck!

Griffin
04-07-2007, 10:38
Mostly be open board too (*cries*) - I'm gonna be relying on Fortune + conceal.

FallenAngel_864
04-07-2007, 11:12
Are you gonna have fun? If you do... then what does it matter. If you don't, then don't play 40k with him anymore...

Glabro
04-07-2007, 11:22
Hmmm. A game of themed Eldar vs. unfluffy Space Marines tooled up to kill that very army on an open board.

Well, I guess some people enjoy their game differently. IŽd tell that guy to rethink his playing philosophy or just wait for him to grow up (if heŽs still 14 or something).


You know what IŽd do? Surprise him totally and proxy totally another army. Something like fast Žnids.
Or perhaps just drop the wraithguard and wraithlords and let him waste those missile launchers and lascannon on cheap troops (just make sure they arenŽt clumped up together too much or theyŽll be fragged).

Ianos
04-07-2007, 11:28
Get 3 squads of shinnig spears, 1st tourbo boost, 2nd turn kill!

Mojaco
04-07-2007, 11:30
Taking one option in excess is not a theme. So yes, he's a cheesy git. Quickly change your army to 3 fireprisms with harlequins and watch him cry!

Lord Malorne
04-07-2007, 11:34
If you wipe out his/her army then he/she will either change the army or make it harder.

Griffin
04-07-2007, 11:42
Unfortuantely Gamers in ZA are soooo rare, you have to take what you can get.

My revenge is coming when my new Imperial guard army is finished....

Lord Malorne
04-07-2007, 11:48
He He...Lemons!

GSte
04-07-2007, 11:51
I really don't understand this cheese thing. Provided you work within the confines of the codex, what's the problem? To pick an army list you know isn't going to be competitive simply because it fits the background just seems silly to me, unless you aren't playing because you enjoy the tactical side of generalship. I mean, can you see Napoleon thinking, 'no, I won't take much of my best cavalry because my opponent may think it's unfair, and besides, it doesn't fit with the theme of the French army'? If force selection blatantly exploits rules simply to win, such as blood angels naked vet sarges in many 5 man squads, then yes that is unfair and unsportsmanlike, but 3 dev squads, when the Eldar player knows they are coming? If this were a regular occurence, where one player simply buys many of one type of troop he knows his opponent can't handle, then complaint would be justified, but other than that I personally think it makes the game more interesting and fun. If my opponent picks a force that completely annihilates me, then well done him, I say.

Griffin
04-07-2007, 12:33
I'd be inclined to agree if not for the fact that he Knew what I was going to bring before hand. The list is built to fulfill the needs of a short storie - But If I bring a well constructed list and you bring one and neither of us knew what was coming, and we have a battle fine - going for a absolute crushing victory instead of leaving things to the dice and generalship is different however. I could have brought Mech eldar, mobile, sit and shoot whatever - but I didn't - I'm playing into the campaign storie like we are supossed to, sticking to my Craftworld fluff. In this case some voluteers, recovering aspect warriors and the dead drafted in to delay marine forces long enough for a delay so that hundreds of eldar can be evacuated. I don't mind playing competetivly when the situation demands it.

Anathema
04-07-2007, 12:41
Sorry, this list isn't cheesy. Its so stationary its untrue and has zero combat potential. Any army with decent mobility and a viable combat element should cream it with ease. Considering what Griffin has, you should use terrain to hide from as many devestator squads (the missile and las if you can, heavy bolter isn't a problem) as possible and march up to the squads you can see.

As for playing on open boards, 25% is really the minimum terrain you should have. I'd enforce that rule, its in the rulebook for a start.

chris.seraphim
04-07-2007, 12:51
I really don't understand this cheese thing. Provided you work within the confines of the codex, what's the problem? To pick an army list you know isn't going to be competitive simply because it fits the background just seems silly to me, unless you aren't playing because you enjoy the tactical side of generalship. I mean, can you see Napoleon thinking, 'no, I won't take much of my best cavalry because my opponent may think it's unfair, and besides, it doesn't fit with the theme of the French army'? If force selection blatantly exploits rules simply to win, such as blood angels naked vet sarges in many 5 man squads, then yes that is unfair and unsportsmanlike, but 3 dev squads, when the Eldar player knows they are coming? If this were a regular occurence, where one player simply buys many of one type of troop he knows his opponent can't handle, then complaint would be justified, but other than that I personally think it makes the game more interesting and fun. If my opponent picks a force that completely annihilates me, then well done him, I say.

Yeah, if you're at a tournament!

IMO, the hobby should be a balance between acting in the ethos of the armies, getting into 'the spirit of it' etc. and being a good general.

Winning is not the point in 40k - having fun is. Where is the fun in going out of your way, and paying for the models etc. to annihilate your mates army alln the time - he'll just get fed up playing you. More fun surely, when playing 'friendly' games to have a nice fluffy, storied army that you can connect to and wrap stories round, even if you lose!
Cause if you build your army to do nothing but win, and then you lose, then you've not had fun AND wasted a lot of money!

Sure, if your entering tournaments etc. set your army up to kick ass, but if thats your aim all the time, then youre missing out on a big part of the hobby.

Ianos
04-07-2007, 15:16
Having fun is the essence of every game, the fun is derived from the seer fact that you are facing of against an opponent. It wouldn’t be that fun if there was no opposition in soccer and scores didn’t matter would it? How about playing chess and sacrificing your queen 1st round just because that was fluffy in your mind? 40k is a game where there is a winner and a looser, and EVERYBODY plays to win, cause if they don’t they are simply not playing 40k they are just wasting their opponents time.
You said that the mates will not be happy playing if they loose all the time, but according to your logic they shouldn’t care less since its not about winning but fun. Isn’t that a bit weird? I think that in a game, striving to compete is the most natural and encouraged thing to do. Trying to make the best lists and use them as best as you can is your right and can also be very fluffy. What really bothers me is that most people get mangled in all the “obvious” choices and follow the internet like a bible. I mean seriously many of the “cookie-cutters” can easily be eliminated by balanced lists in the hands of a good general, yet I rarely see people break the norm and instead all I see is cheese cries. Surely it is hard for someone to learn and master the game and people will not like to loose all the time, but if they are patient and ask for advice, even those uber killy lists will suddenly become much easier to face.

GSte
04-07-2007, 15:20
Yeah, if you're at a tournament!

IMO, the hobby should be a balance between acting in the ethos of the armies, getting into 'the spirit of it' etc. and being a good general.

Winning is not the point in 40k - having fun is. Where is the fun in going out of your way, and paying for the models etc. to annihilate your mates army alln the time - he'll just get fed up playing you. More fun surely, when playing 'friendly' games to have a nice fluffy, storied army that you can connect to and wrap stories round, even if you lose!
Cause if you build your army to do nothing but win, and then you lose, then you've not had fun AND wasted a lot of money!

Sure, if your entering tournaments etc. set your army up to kick ass, but if thats your aim all the time, then youre missing out on a big part of the hobby.

Having fun and winning with a competetive list are certainly not mutually exclusive though. My mates and I just try to create the best lists we can, or that contain the troops we like most, but all our games are really fun and friendly, regardless of who wins and loses. My problem with this 'cheese' thing is that I find it very unfriendly and unsportsmanlike.... 'I couldn't beat you so I'll call your list unfair and tell you that the game isn't about winning, even though I do really care about winning that's why I'm complaining' sort-of-thing. If things get too one sided we do amend our lists though, perhaps removing units that were very effective, and seeing how that changes things.

I think the real problem here is simply unfriendly players who can't accept losing, whether it be that they use absolutely unrelenting lists (iron warriors with 20 lascannons spring to mind) on a consistent basis, or those that complain about opponents lists being unfair just because they lose a battle.