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broodjeork
09-07-2007, 13:28
im stuck in an dylema, i want a big thing for my 2000 fts orcs and goblins but cant decide between a wyvern or gaint, soooo hard to choose

so i thought that u guys might have an idea of wich is better.

pjc
09-07-2007, 13:37
the giant model is so good you have to have it!
you could amke it look so characterful for a O&G army
id go for that on the aesthetic side rather than the fat wyvern

EmperorNorton
09-07-2007, 13:45
Since I haven't used a Wyvern yet I can't really say which one is better, but one thing I can say: The Giant is a lot of fun! I wouldn't field my O&Gs without him.
And I have to agree with pjc, it is an awesome model as well.

Braad
09-07-2007, 13:52
In 2000 pts, I would go for the giant.

Keep your general in your units. They need his Ld.
Beside that, a warboss on wyvern can cost you 300-400 points, that's quite a large point sink for one model in a smaller game. Especially one that can be quite easily harmed by missile fire.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
09-07-2007, 16:40
I vote for Wyvern

nothing worse than having your tooled up black orc warboss for some reason stuck away from all the fighting. 20" per tern ignore terrain and units solves this problem massivly. Not to mention the massive fighting power that comes with it. Allowing you to win combats single handedly.

for looks? still the wyvern. a seriously good looking fierce monster that fits in with O&G perfectily (it's green!!!) and besides, giants die too easy. No save

Holy Crap! Manticores!
09-07-2007, 16:45
I like the Wyvern for tactical possibilities.

What can a wyvern do that a Giant can't?

make a 20" flying charge
carry a Black Orc amred to da teef
make poisoned attacks

sun tzu
09-07-2007, 18:05
I would say the giant, stubbon, terror and LD10:D

Kahadras
09-07-2007, 20:39
I vote for the Wyvern due to the fact that it's the more interesting out of the two choices. Many Greenskin armies I've seen have Giants but I've never seen one with a Wyvern. It seems a shame really as the Wyvern represents the ultimate challenge for any aspiring Warboss.

Kahadras

Capslock
09-07-2007, 21:41
I would say the giant simply because both become tremendous fire magnets and with a giant you stand to lose less (both in points and over-all strategic loss) when an entire magic and shooting phase come crashing down on the model's head. Realistically there may be other, better tragets of opportunity but wyverns and giants are big, scary looking models and they invariably attract more attention.

broodjeork
09-07-2007, 21:45
mmmmmmhhhh. this doesnt really light up my choice

if any thing it only made it whorse
bothe are realy good and about teh same points cost bot its such a hard choise.

the thing with gaints is that the will die easy to missle fire
not that whyvers dont bot just a little less fast and they only get one turn of shooting

and to make things even whorse if bin looking at grimgor for a while and hes starting to look really usefull as wel

Coragus
09-07-2007, 22:25
When I was an O&G player, I had both. The giant looked cool, but its attacks are far too random and I found that it was moderately beatable in combat. The wyvern, on the other hand, was great as mobile transportation for an Orc Warlord, giving the army a much needed mobile arm.

Remember, you can't shoot a unit in close combat. A giant can move 10 inches per turn, a wyvern 20. Therefore, a giant ends up being a greater fire magnet simply because he can't come to grips with the enemy as quickly.

broodjeork
09-07-2007, 22:55
yes the wyvern indeed sounds like a lot of fun and very fast to

but i just realised taht it is an lagre target and so it can look over enemy units and attack whoever he wants

Slaaaaaanesh
10-07-2007, 13:19
I would definitely go for the Giant, Just watch out for pin-cushioning when playing against bow shooty armies

Braad
10-07-2007, 17:03
and to make things even whorse if bin looking at grimgor for a while and hes starting to look really usefull as wel

Well... If you got room for Grimgor, you can also take the giant AND the wyvern. About the same points...
Anyway, I would just buy both models (in fact... I did!) and just switch between games and use what you got room for.

About Grimgor, he indeed can be very usefull. But if he's with a unit and the unit get's flanked and starts running, then it's a terrible huge point-sink.
I used him once (with the new book) and I guess he's a bit to powerfull for small games. He can be easily taken care of (as I said, e.g. by flanking) or chop anything to pieces (carnosaur dead in one slice...)
If you wan't to play fun games at 2000 pts, I think a more average warboss is better.

broodjeork
10-07-2007, 17:08
thanks for te advice

also i just herd that there is a new wyvrn model comming out
namely azag the slaughterer so il buy the gaint first and then the wyvern as soon as it comes out

GrogsnotPowwabomba
10-07-2007, 18:50
The Giant wins hands down. It is a better model and it has better rules in-game.

I also worry in games under 3000pt that your general will be flying around away from the army, not providing his Leadership (LD being a key weakness for Orcs & Goblins)

GrogsnotPowwabomba
10-07-2007, 18:53
A giant can move 10 inches per turn, a wyvern 20.

Giants actually move 12" a turn. But your point still stands. ;)

sun tzu
10-07-2007, 19:58
i really can't see why any orc and goblin player would ever use a wyvern.
Your warboss should be in the centre of your army radiating LD.
Your second lord should be a level 4 sharman.
I have never seem to have a spare lord to waste on a wyvern:(

Cornholio
10-07-2007, 20:05
Giant, beacuse although it is beatable in combat, it takes your opponet quite some time and resources to take out, which after it falls, leaves them open to your black orcs(or normal orcs). any way the options for Giant models are very fun.

one way i built mine was that i scrounged up all of the sheilds and other bitz that i could to armor him and it looks very good.

Tarliyn
11-07-2007, 04:05
That is a tough a choice. I know when I play against orcs and goblins I let out a sigh when I see either model. When I play o&g it depends on my army and strat on which one I pick. I ussually pick the the giant. I feel that havening a second guy out is more important than further pumping up a character (this becomes esp true when facing armies that have cannons, loosing your 600pt character to a cannon ball sucks). The times I take the wyvern are:
-simply when I feel like it lol. If I feel like having a huge flying beasty I take it. Done and Done, I play to have fun.
and
-when facing a fast army or an army that likes to horde you (ie skaven). If you can knock out ranks or get the the charge ahead of either of these types of armies they are done for and the wyvern helps with that.

Just my two sense. I have seen both the models be rediculous in a fight though so the nice thing about this hard choice is there is no wrong answer :D

broodjeork
11-07-2007, 09:49
if i look at all theresponses ith ink that
both is the right answer

and it also means i have to spent more money (gw bastards)

rik
11-07-2007, 15:32
i would take the giant every time. but never allow it to charge in alone even if its a small fast cav unit. my giant always does well of course every now and again it falls over but hey if you play goblins stuff is gona go wrong. i fond mounting a giant on a flying creaure means he often ends up flying all over the shop and i need him with my men for his ld value.

Holy Crap! Manticores!
11-07-2007, 17:29
i really can't see why any orc and goblin player would ever use a wyvern.
Your warboss should be in the centre of your army radiating LD.
Your second lord should be a level 4 sharman.
I have never seem to have a spare lord to waste on a wyvern:(I understand your point about the General as a Ld sink, but you're not required to Fly the Wyvern straight across the board for turn one. You always have the option of floating the boss neer the army for the initial movement... or yuo could use Elfy tactics and wait a turn or two to clear out an opening for the Wyvernboss. Just because you have the speed doen't mean you have to use it every turn.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
11-07-2007, 17:34
yes and also, why can't you radate LD while on a wyvern? you could still stay in the middle of your army.

Ninsaneja
11-07-2007, 18:11
yes and also, why can't you radate LD while on a wyvern? you could still stay in the middle of your army.

How many points are you going to pay for a few more attacks on your lord? If you aren't using your fly movement, the Wyvern is a waste (not so sure that it isn't a waste anyway...)

TheWarSmith
11-07-2007, 18:20
i would take the giant every time. but never allow it to charge in alone even if its a small fast cav unit. my giant always does well of course every now and again it falls over but hey if you play goblins stuff is gona go wrong. i fond mounting a giant on a flying creaure means he often ends up flying all over the shop and i need him with my men for his ld value.

Uh, why NOT allow it to charge by itself? Unlike the warboss on wyvern, the giant can often win combats(yelling or jumping) even against fully ranked infantry. The warboss on wyvern is lucky if it can tie, as it's at a -5 CR handicap going into combat with fully ranked units(if charging the front).

Giants will usually hold even if they lose, so the only reason to avoid charging something is if you think it will kill you with wounds(damn saurus w/ spears)

Felworth
11-07-2007, 19:10
yes and also, why can't you radate LD while on a wyvern? you could still stay in the middle of your army.


Oh you can and the Warboss does look good seated on a giant monster in the center of his army, confidently urging his boyz to advance...

Its just the first enemy shooting phase where said Warboss and his scaly mount are reduced to red mist by cannon fire, bolt throwers or magic... boss doesn't give much leadership once he's dead.


Giant. Always a giant. Only thing you can send alone on a flank that can be trusted to not fail animosity. Plus he helps divide enemy firepower away from the horde.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
11-07-2007, 20:19
Giant. Always a giant. Only thing you can send alone on a flank that can be trusted to not fail animosity.

10-strong units of Black Orcs /w Musician can keep people honest on your flanks as well.

Felworth
11-07-2007, 21:38
10-strong units of Black Orcs /w Musician can keep people honest on your flanks as well.


Fair enough but I'd imagine Black Orcs are better suited to the center of the battlefield where they can wack stuff to death as opposed to the long march on the far flank. Giants move pretty quick and can get back into the fight quicker then a badly positioned foot slogging regiment.

sun tzu
11-07-2007, 22:59
I understand your point about the General as a Ld sink, but you're not required to Fly the Wyvern straight across the board for turn one. You always have the option of floating the boss neer the army for the initial movement... or yuo could use Elfy tactics and wait a turn or two to clear out an opening for the Wyvernboss. Just because you have the speed doen't mean you have to use it every turn.

Yes, i see your point but you will find that hanging around on a wyvern in the centre of a orc and goblin army atracts morethan alittle firepower:D
Better to keep him in a large unit:cool:

Urgat
12-07-2007, 15:14
My opinion:
mostly foot units -> giant
mostly mounted units -> wyvern
over 3000 points -> both :p

Nah honestly, I wish I could take my wyvern out more often, but I just seem to lack the guts to let my army strive without my general...

Mouse_NJ
12-07-2007, 18:23
I like the Wyvern for tactical possibilities.

What can a wyvern do that a Giant can't?

make a 20" flying charge
carry a Black Orc amred to da teef
make poisoned attacks

I would like to point out that a mounted model does not get a choppa bonus, and the Great weapon does not give you a full strength upgrade, and there is no additional HW attack on the Wyvern, it does give the poisen, terror, and other benefits along with negating ranks though.

I like the Wyvern for the tactical versitility, and the non-random attacks. However, I will admit that the Giant has its usages also with its auto winning combat, jump up and down, and some armies almost complete inability to deal with it.

That being said, for 2K or under games I feel a giant is the best bet, at 2250 or 2.5 either is a good option, at 3K if you want a interesting game consider taking both for dual terror.

Urgat
12-07-2007, 22:17
I would like to point out that a mounted model does not get a choppa bonus, and the Great weapon does not give you a full strength upgrade, and there is no additional HW attack on the Wyvern, it does give the poisen, terror, and other benefits along with negating ranks though.
Additionally, the armed to da teeth rule is revoked on mounted models iirc anyway.


That being said, for 2K or under games I feel a giant is the best bet, at 2250 or 2.5 either is a good option, at 3K if you want a interesting game consider taking both for dual terror.

Well, for under 2k, it's the only choice anyway, no wyvern w/o a warlord.

Mouse_NJ
13-07-2007, 16:24
Um, where does it say the rule is no longer in effect? To my knowledge the rule is only lost if you take a magic weapon. Basically, your options would apply but, some of the effects are nullified. Essentially we are talking about the same thing though where basically you've got an Black Orc with a handweapon (no choppa bonus), or a great weapon at +1 str as their mounted.

With the 2nd part... yea under 2k your giant is your only option but at 2k you have your choice, games for fun it comical to throw in a warlord on a wyvern once in a while but not tactially the best choice

Khorghan
14-07-2007, 02:41
GIANT

awesome model
awesome rules