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TheDarkArg
10-07-2007, 01:14
As I've recently started putting together my first VC force it occurred to me that I'm going to need a lot more skeletons/zombies than I have in the current army list. I apologize if there is a thread out there that already deals with this, but none of the Tactica: VC-type threads I found had it.

In a 2k game how many skeletons and zombies do you typically find you need or wish you had (so you could cast IoN past your reserve limit) using a Count and 2xNecromancers?

xenotaph
10-07-2007, 01:31
It all depends on your play style and the opponents you play.

I would suggest doing the zombie/skeleton 'pieces' concept before actually buying more models. The pieces concept is to use all your spare pieces from the sprues you already have and make bases showing them popping up from the ground. This will save you money and paint time. Also using them you will get a good idea on how many more to buy (if you even want to).

Personally, I would try to refrain from buying too many extras since the VC will get an update early next year and the models may look cooler.

regards,
xeno

TheDarkArg
10-07-2007, 02:11
Thanks for the info. Right now I'm still working on getting enough of the basic troopers to fill out my core units.

E-616
10-07-2007, 02:28
In 2k points I like to field one skeleton and one zombie unit at maximum unit size with a unit of about 20 skeletons for guarding a flank.

Starting a unit out big can really make up for any bad magic phases later on where the flanking unit can be added to if the dice are rolling well :)

But I'm expecting some new models with the new VC book when it comes out so maybe your best bet is to have some stand in models for friendly games.

Ninsaneja
10-07-2007, 05:36
I use a very heavy on the summoning list, and I can use as many as 100 models (my friends allow proxies of zombies to skellies and vice-versa) in a 1k points game, and more than twice as many in 2k. I generally start a 1k game with 60 combined zombie and skeleton models on the field, mostly because I use a light amount of ghouls and I despise grave guard and black knights in small games, they always die to CR by turn 3.

Don't take my example! Use a list with a vampire general and no other wizards! And fill your core with units of ghouls! Never mind.

Dairym
10-07-2007, 07:09
Well, all I have is 40 skeletons so that's all I field, but it isn't much of a mob, and I'd prefer to add another unit of 20.
If you have another army you can always use them as proxy zombies. I tend to use my skaven - given the rate they die at, there should be quite a few more zombie skaven, I always reckon.

razielthegreat
10-07-2007, 08:51
from what i've learnt, (which isn't all that much :P ) it's always better to have too many, then to few. so i would recommend getting yourself 2 boxs of each (zombies & skeletons, if you plan on using both)

i would also have to agree with xeontaph, about the 'pieces' idea. it gets you at least 5 more zombies/skeleies per box-set.

EvC
10-07-2007, 10:31
At 2000 points I usually start with about 20 of each, which leaves me a few Zombies and another 30 Skeletons to raise. Most opponents don't mind a bit of proxying, however...

N1AK
10-07-2007, 10:44
EvC: I guess it would depend what mood I'm in what I'd do, if your pulling a 4,2,2,2 list with a few bound items I'd be inclinded not too ;) or take a Morghur spawn / hound + disp caddies list with proxy spawn horde.

I've got 40 Zombies that don't start on the board in my 1500 list, I've never needed more, but tbh I stop invocating by that point and do other stuff.

EvC
10-07-2007, 11:09
No, I take three level 2's and two bound items (Though I'm changing it to one level 3 and one level 2 with one bound item). I'm not the kind of player who manages to raise that many new undead every game, and it's rare I bother making a new unit. I play nice to begin with and people are usually nice in return :D

gortexgunnerson
10-07-2007, 11:31
I think the thing is that if you raise past your maximum of models on the side, I have around 60 or so for my Von Casteins without having enough casulaities to raise again, always fun. Then likely you wont need more zombies/skeletons and perhaps you should cst something else lol. So yes you could raise more but I think your going a little over the top when past 60 raised as likely anyone letting you raise so many is probably dead in the water at that point.

Thou did raise 40 zombies in 3 2d6 spells on top of other rasies and hence ran out of models but i was happily crunching their army by that point so just used over wonders like Van Hells to move my mass zombies

Rabban
10-07-2007, 12:31
As many others have said it depends on your list. The list I run sounds similar to EVC's, three level 2's and 2 bound spells (occasionally I go for 3). My normal opponent is plays wood elves, with moderate magic defense (normally 5DD plus 2 scrolls). In a typical battle I might use 10-25 extra models, occasionally if I roll well that goes up a little higher (also, if he chooses to concentrate his shooting on units other than the zombies and skellies it goes up more too).

As well as making extra zombies out of the box set you can also add in spare models from other armies. I've got a few goblins converted to zombies (they're the riders from the wolf riders who became my dire wolves), and a few skaven zombies (leftovers from my old Mordheim band).

sephiroth87
11-07-2007, 21:34
I've gotten as many as 60 extra zombies out on the board. I always start with 10 on the board and have around 80. I made most of them by using pieces and parts from the sprue, coupled with the gravestones that came with it. It's appropriate and cheap.

I also take 2 units of 25 skeletons and keep about 10 extra in the box. I usually don't summon many unless I've already taken heavy losses, which means I don't need that many extras.

EvC
11-07-2007, 21:47
As many others have said it depends on your list. The list I run sounds similar to EVC's, three level 2's and 2 bound spells (occasionally I go for 3). My normal opponent is plays wood elves, with moderate magic defense (normally 5DD plus 2 scrolls). In a typical battle I might use 10-25 extra models, occasionally if I roll well that goes up a little higher (also, if he chooses to concentrate his shooting on units other than the zombies and skellies it goes up more too).

As well as making extra zombies out of the box set you can also add in spare models from other armies. I've got a few goblins converted to zombies (they're the riders from the wolf riders who became my dire wolves), and a few skaven zombies (leftovers from my old Mordheim band).

Oh dear, apart from the Skaven Zombies, sounds like we have exactly the same force!

Rabban
11-07-2007, 23:37
Oh dear, apart from the Skaven Zombies, sounds like we have exactly the same force!

LOL. I don't suppose you also use converted Brettonian men-at-arms as graveguard? I've got a goal of eventually having converted zombies or skeletons (or both!) from every race, that way I can move them to the front rank depending on my opponent, as a nice friendly reminder of what I'll do to there soldiers. :)

EvC
12-07-2007, 09:25
Actually that's one thing I'll never do- Bretonnian Peasants as glorious undying Wights? Not in my army... so yay our armies aren't that similar! :D

(But then I guess not too many other people have an undead Rhino in their armies)

Urgat
12-07-2007, 14:00
I'm not an annoying opponent (usually), so when I play my undead friend (hem, lol, you get me), if he runs out, I just let him borrow empire or DE or whatever I have. Looks crap, but well, I like to play fair.
Maybe I should be a bit more strict, because he'll never buy that second chaos spawn for his chaos army if I keep letting him borrow my swamp beast to be played as one :p

seydlitz
21-07-2007, 11:33
Conventional VC wisdom says, "Buy Skeletons, Raise Zombies", except when adding to an existing unit.

Why? Because when you raise you have to successfully call up 5 models. Depending on the IoN strength, this means any die roll except 1 or 1+1 or 1+1+1 will work. Raising skellies is tougher ansd I always seem to roll a "4" when I really need the unit to pop up. Also, when you buy skellies, you have weapon/armor options; with zombies you get the same thing no matter what. So, when you add to a skellie unit you get more bang for the buck.

As to numbers, I use 2 25-model Skellie blocks to start with, and increase them as needed. For new units, I always raise Zombies. My personal best is 113 new models in a 6-turn, 2250 point game, which means I could have needed 163 total models (had they all survived, which they didn't)

Goldenwolf
22-07-2007, 03:51
I went over the top, buying 5 regiments of each Skellies and Zombies, and when combined with the units rising from the graves, I have 110+ of each, and have rarely ever used more than 50-60 of each.

Nkari
22-07-2007, 08:44
In a Necromancer heavy list I find my 130-140 skeletons run out quite fast.. using 85 of those skeletons to form the core of the necro army..
Zombies I have way way to few.. need about 100-150 more zombies.. for a total of 120-170.. ;)


In a normal list., 40 extra Zombies and 30 extra skeletons should be enough..

opforce3
31-07-2007, 20:59
i field a count and 3 necro's, and start with 3x 20 skellies and 40 zombies, along with 20 grave guard and, depending on who im fighting, some knights, fell bats, swarms, or what i feel works best. i have on more than one occasion raised more zombies than i have extras (35), but rarely use up my extra skellies (20). things usually go well for the army, provided i get danse macabre off once in a while, as my opponents usually have more-than-adequate magic protection