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BobbJoe
14-07-2007, 20:41
Hey, this is my first warhammer army, HoC. Planning on playing some 2,00 point games, so here is the list:

Note: I am not using the Archaon's Horde (or whatever it was called) army list, this is just the normal HoC force organazation.

2000 Pts - Chaos Roster - Archaon's Horde

Archaon (2#, 855 Pts)
1 Archaon, Lord of the End Times @ 855 Pts
General; Causes Terror; Immune to Psychology; Magic Resistance (2)
1 Armor of Morkar @ [0] Pts
1 Crown of Domination @ [0] Pts
1 Eye of Sheerian @ [0] Pts
1 Slayer of Kings @ [0] Pts
1 Dorghar @ [0] Pts
Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology

Chaos Knights (8#, 410 Pts)
7 Swords of Chaos @ 410 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Shield; Chosen
1 Chosen Champion @ [65] Pts
Hand Weapon; Chosen; Chaos Armor; Shield
8 Chaos Steed @ [0] Pts

Chaos Warriors (12#, 210 Pts)
11 Chaos Warriors @ 210 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield
1 Champion @ [27] Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

Chaos Warriors (12#, 210 Pts)
11 Chaos Warriors @ 210 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield
1 Champion @ [27] Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

Chaos Marauder Horsemen (24#, 265 Pts)
5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen @ 65 Pts
Hand Weapon
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

16 Chaos Marauders @ 80 Pts
Hand Weapon

1 Chariot @ 120 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Chariot; Scythed Wheels
2 Crew @ [0] Pts
Halberd
2 Chaos Steed @ [0] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1950

Feel free to tear this to pieces. :D

athamas
14-07-2007, 21:42
first thing... dont post lists like that..

simply

Archaon: 855 Pts...

...1 Chariot 120 Pts

will do, and it stops the mods complaining about you posting points values that you are not allowed to do!


a few points from my limited experience...


thats alot of chosen knights, you are paying ~200pts for +1 combat resolution.. take a war banner and drop the number to ~5-7

the marauder horsemen want a musician..

the block of marauders want a musician and maybe a banner [if you are using them as a big static unit]

you really need some more magic deffence, Archaon will be able to protect his own unit [im guessing he is going with the knights] partly due to his resistance.. but then you have 3 die to fend of any attacks that are not going his way.. and alot of people will be able to avoid him... or atleast bait you... out of the way...


you might want to give the warriors halberds esp. if you make one of them a unit of chosen...


also, Archaon is not that great at 2k... more suited to 3k, as for his points i can get 3 slaaneshi hero's on steeds of slaanesh all with magic items etc.. who will cause alot more damage...

he is really cool, but for now you may want to leave him at home..

BobbJoe
14-07-2007, 22:52
Well, i need this army done asap for a local event, and the warriors have already have had shields modeled on them. I think for now, archaon wil do. I plan on using the warriors as the main blocks. So, the mauraders really do not need a comand group, as they are jsut mainly for flanking, and holding.

I do agree that mpre dispell dice are in order, do you think a sorcerer would supply an big enough amount?

Oh yeah, and sorry about the format, first time posting an army list.

athamas
14-07-2007, 23:32
the main probelm with the format is that its easy for things to gat lost...

for example for your 8 knights saying '8 chosen knights, MoCU,Full comand' takes up alot less space and tells you exactly whats there without any of the other silly stuff, every one knows what they have.

sheilds are almost a must on wariors anyway, you need the extra save from ranged attack... their problem is they lack static combat res..

for magic defence a single bray shaman with 2 dispell scrolls would do... its cheap and effective and will help alot... but needs to be kept safe, you might want a sorcer just to hide him in a unit


you would also find some hounds usefull as a screen/bait/rank removers

you also have the problem that if your main unit does not break through enemy lines, they will get flanked and killed... even with 10 attacks archaon and his cosen will have trouble killing enough zombies to completly remove a unit of 20+

BobbJoe
15-07-2007, 00:01
i think ( i may not be right) but a unit of 8 chosen knights, with archon is somthing like 26 attackes? That should be plenty to at least break a 20 man unit in the first round of combat. (plus archaon cuases fear).

So, i take a shaman with the scrolls, bury him in a warrior regiment?

Also, would it just be easyoer to bring in another unit of warriors and drop drop three chosen knights? This ight ean i would not be able to feild the chariot though. Let me go create a new list.

athamas
15-07-2007, 00:12
remember you will never get all 8 of those chosen in to combat and archaon, the most you would se is 6 and him...


and that unit would have a frontage of 20cm.. making it quite unweildy... anyhing more than 15cm is a pain

BobbJoe
15-07-2007, 00:21
Okay, here it is:

2000 Pts - Chaos Roster - Archaon's Horde

Archaon (2#, 855 Pts)


Chosen Chaos Knights with full command group (5#, 275 Pts)
Hand Weapon; Chosen; Chaos Armor; Shield


Chaos Warriors with full Command (12#, 210 Pts)
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield


Chaos Warriors with full Command (12#, 210 Pts)
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield


Chaos Warriors with full Command (12#, 210 Pts)
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield


Sorcerer (1#, 135 Pts)
1 Chaos Sorcerer @ 135 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Chaos Marauder Horsemen with full command (5#, 95 Pts)


Total Roster Cost: 1990

Can you use a bray shaman even though it is not beats? If so, i will use one, but for now, the sorcerer seems to have it covered (i think) with the two extra dispell dice.

My only other concern is being shot to peices by shooty armies, such as empire, dwarfs, ect. The shields should help but i am thinking about getting a fast cavalry unit in there just to engage the enemy ranged units and draw fire as the initialy charge.

Your thoughts?

Khorghan
15-07-2007, 00:53
You can use a Bray-Shaman, in your Hoc list

Tili
15-07-2007, 01:15
You do know you have 3 blocks of chaos warriors.
And chaos warriors arent that good ...

NEVER give a fast cav unit(Marauder Horsemen) full command
just give them flails and a muscisian, nothing more!

Simply put, with this list you will be outmanouvered by virtually every list.

I'd bring some more units in stead of all the elite stuff because they never earn their point cost back...

BobbJoe
15-07-2007, 01:18
So, get rid of a warrior block, and get a chariot? Also perhaps replace the sorcerer with a bray shaman? I like the plus two dispell dice though...

Thinking of just dumping archaon all together...

maybe another unit of fast cav?

Some hounds would be nice in ther as well.

BobbJoe
15-07-2007, 01:31
hey, here is the latest list, with updates:

2000 Pts - Chaos Roster - Archaon's Horde

1 Archaon 855 Pts


5 Chosen Chaos Knights with full command 275 Pts


12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

1 Sorcerer 135 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts
Hand Weapon


5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts
Hand Weapon

10 Chaos Hounds 60 Pts


1 Chariot 120 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Chariot; Scythed Wheels


Total Roster Cost: 1983



Tell me what you think

lokigod
15-07-2007, 03:51
hey, here is the latest list, with updates:

2000 Pts - Chaos Roster - Archaon's Horde

1 Archaon 855 Pts(this is going to make you lose alot of games)


5 Chosen Chaos Knights with full command 275 Pts(fine, and wouldnt leave home with out them)


12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts(good)
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts(good)
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

1 Sorcerer 135 Pts(fine)
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts(great)
Hand Weapon


5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts(great)
Hand Weapon

10 Chaos Hounds 60 Pts(never leave home without some)


1 Chariot 120 Pts(cheap and core)
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Chariot; Scythed Wheels


Total Roster Cost: 1983



Tell me what you think
you have almost half your army in charachters...... with tzeentch this is great cause you get the added bonus of casting dice and magic! Any other chaos list needs to be sparse on the charachters to make up for it in troops. I' ll list couple of things this army would struggle against and units to try cover those weakness. Also if you took 400 of archon points and put them into charachters and other half on moe troops you would make this army alot more flexible and might win against something other than beginers.


strugle- fix
gun line- put some furies in they shore up so many weakness in a chaos list, or maybe a beast herd.
magic heavy- yes archon is hard but what happens when you have to face a +10 power dice army...... get a little more magic defense in the form of a beast herd with another shaman.
fast armys- yes you have dogs and some maruader horse men and knights, but lets be honest dogs are there just to flee and panic very easily. there again furies would help alot or screamers.

Need less to say you have one major threat in your army and its going to draw all the magic and shooting straight towards it. this can be great if you have a few more threats but as is you have one real big target and some units to mop up afterwards on. So this is how a good player will play your army. Kill archon by turn 2 (it will happen, Cannon balls do d6 or d3 wounds).. then proced to panic or kill your dogs and maruader horsemen. Then flank your slow infantry. Rember your 6 wide on the front and 2 wide on the sides:(
So in theroy you get 2 attacks for a average1 kill on 2 combat res counting banners and they get +3 ranks and maybe a kill and a banner for you to lose combat at - 3 or 4.

p.s. No one with any skill is going to let archon get in combat with anything other than a low point feeder or throw away unit like your dogs, or just try to avoid him.also rember his knight units have flanks, so hit the side he is not on and break chaos knights by combat res. Then archon flees and gets run down end of story! So when i make a chaos list that is not tzeentch i always look to see if i could win without my charachters and if the answer is no you are in trouble.

BobbJoe
15-07-2007, 13:07
Okay, i would change the mark of chaos undivided, to a mark of tzeetch, but the two warrior regiments are already painted, and they do not look tzeetch-ish. They have space wolf grey cloaks, with rusted armor. Their sheilds are grey with a logo in red.

If i were to go tzeetch, i would want to take some screamers? Posibily replacing the warhounds pointwise?

logan054
15-07-2007, 14:43
1 Archaon 855 Pts
- Dude the main thing to know about using a chaos army is that you need to spread your points out evenly, sure its a cool model, you can always use it as a exalted (hell i converted on into a khorne exalted). Personally i would take two exalted over this guy any day, so much cheaper.

5 Chosen Chaos Knights with full command 275 Pts
- Ok, fine

12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

- These guys will do nothing, for undivided if you want to use warriors they extra hand weapons and personally i would have them in a unit of 15 deployed 5x3. I would also only use a single unit. If you want HW and shield then i would make them chosen and give them warbanner.

12 Chaos Warriors with full command 186 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield
- I would drop this unit and take a nice big block of marauders with HW+SH lead by a exalted with halberd or great weapon. 25 models in total

1 Sorcerer 135 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

OK cool

5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts
Hand Weapon

Give them Fails

5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician 71 Pts
Hand Weapon

As above

10 Chaos Hounds 60 Pts

I would have two units of 5 rather than one unit.

1 Chariot 120 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Chariot; Scythed Wheels

Personally i would take two and use them as a pair.



Things to add, ever considered minotaurs, they are amazing for the points and can be marked, more knights, more marauders (horseman or on foot).

Furies, you need furies, every chaos list should include them, erm, spawn are very important in a infantry heavy list, the fact they dont have a charge arc makes them great, they can cover your rear and flanks as well being used to bait and hold units in postion. Im sure someone here could tell you just how effective they are.

As for archoan, me personally i would use a lord with chaos runshield, sword of might and gaze of the gods, that would hold him place for most the game (and is half the points), challenge him out and break him with static combat res, that or let him kill himself ;)

BobbJoe
16-07-2007, 15:20
okay, i found out that i only need 1500 pts, so here is the new list. Oh yeah, and i also went tzeetch.

1500 Pts - Chaos Roster - Chaos Army 2

1 Exalted Champion of Tzeentch @ 265 Pts
General; Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
Disc of Tzeentch @ [45] Pts
Rending Sword @ [40] Pts
Enchanted Shield @ [10] Pts


1 Aspiring Champion of Tzeentch (Battle Standard Bea @ 225 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Battle Standard Bearer
1 Great Fang @ [50] Pts


11 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
mark of tzeetch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

11 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
mark of tzeetch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield


5 Chosen Chaos Knights of Tzeentch with full command @ 345 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Chosen; Chaos Armor; Shield
1 The Flesh Banner @ [50] pts


5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician (5#, 81 Pts)
Hand Weapon; Flail


10 Warhounds @ 60 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1436

Nathangonmad
17-07-2007, 12:32
11 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
mark of tzeetch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

NO NO NO NO! Never take a squad smaller than 15 or 20!

ROCKY
17-07-2007, 13:40
11 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
mark of tzeetch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield

NO NO NO NO! Never take a squad smaller than 15 or 20!
I completely agree Nathangonemad. These are not cheap marauders with flails. If i take warriors they are usuall of khorne and in 2x7 position or 5x3 with dual weapons.

ROCKY
17-07-2007, 13:44
first off I would suggest making both chars Exalteds (far better in CC) also u do not need chosen in this small of a game. I would also drop the marauder horsemen and take some screamers. u should have enough now to add a tuskgor chariot, oh and make the warroirs 15-20. GL and HF

Nathangonmad
17-07-2007, 14:07
Also

10 Warhounds @ 60 Pts

I;d always take them in units of 5 or not at all.

BobbJoe
17-07-2007, 23:32
okay, first off, the 11 warriors, should ahve been 12, and i am not worried about the lack of models there. here is the most recent list:

1500 Pts - Chaos Roster - chaos army 2


1 Exalted Champion of Tzeentch @ 265 Pts
General; Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor
1 Disc of Tzeentch @ [45] Pts
1 Rending Sword @ [40] Pts
1 Enchanted Shield @ [10] Pts


1 Aspiring Champion of Tzeentch (Battle Standard Bea @ 241 Pts
Barding; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Battle Standard Bearer
1 Chaos Steed @ [0] Pts
1 Great Fang @ [50] Pts



12 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield


12 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch with full command @ 230 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield



5 Chosen Chaos Knights of Tzeentch with full command @ 295 Pts
Hand Weapon; Chosen; Chaos Armor; Shield


5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen with musician @ 81 Pts
Hand Weapon; Flail



1 Chariot of Tzeentch @ 140 Pts


Total Roster Cost: 1482