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JohnDutch
19-08-2005, 12:08
Hello I am considering a new fantasy army and am thinking maybe minatours, does anyone have experience playing with or against them and what did they perform like.

Also is this an army people would enjoy playing against and seeing at a tourni rather than the usuall suspects??

Thanks for any info :)

tomambrosio
19-08-2005, 13:59
As someone who has just recently begun playing Warhammer (I was a longtime 40K player) and just getting used to the rules, I would say avoid it. I, too, had considered a minatour army, but decided against it because: (a)too few troops; (b)inability to get a standard/musician; (c)unlikelyhood of getting rank bonuses.

What this means is that you will be broken in combat far easier than you would initially think and possibly run down -- your life will be too often decided how far you can run away.

It is a similar problem with all-ogre armies -- but at least they have the ability to take a banner and bellower.

Sinew
19-08-2005, 14:36
inability to get a standard/musician I think Minotaurs can get a standard, just not a musician. Plus they should be looking for flank charges to cancel enemy ranks. Still the army DOES suffer the same issues as Ogre Kingdoms and I'd say it would not a tough army to master.

TeddyC
19-08-2005, 15:16
If your just starting... no..... difficult to pick up and play.

Ogres are different as they have rule like the gut charge etc. to make up for what they lack in ranks.

You could still easily go for a Doombull led army but just gont go overboard with minotaurs.... you need the beastherds and chariots to support. You can use your saved special slots for some nasties though? maybe take some daemons.

User Name
19-08-2005, 19:32
I say go for it if you want to. Mios are super hard and can dish out major pain, backed by beastherds for ranks and manouverability and warhounds for baiting and fleeing I cant see how it would be a problem. IF you still find your getting outnumberd then use some of those special choices for units of 25 marauders with hand weapon and shield.

Also I would suggest the mark of nurgle since it will make your minos alot harder to kill, since with light armour and the mark they get a 4+ save.

cardboard_armour
19-08-2005, 22:56
Really the doombull variation is not a good staring place for an army.
For one all the minotaurs are metal and there's not too much variation. You'd be spending a lot of cash for a pretty dull army.

Their tactics are blunt and complicated in their simplicity.

If you like Minotaurs then just do a Beasts of Chaos army with maybe a greater than average number of minotaurs. Then you can flesh out they bulk with cheap plastic units of gors.

Kohhna
20-08-2005, 01:35
Still the army DOES suffer the same issues as Ogre Kingdoms
Yes, + no lead belchers or any other type of Missile unit (unless you want to take a few actual lead belchers as a DOW rare slot).

Smashing models though...

Zeb
20-08-2005, 06:51
Our local store owner plays with a regiment of Minotaurs of Khorne and a Doombull that is marked as well... And a BSB with Banner of the Gods in as herd behind them...

It's crazy! it actually works... It's really hard and tough, and almost everything you throw at the regiment bumps of it...

Strictly Commercial
20-08-2005, 09:20
If you just use one minotaur unit as core and take beast herds you are doing okay, but all minotaurs will help you against chaos mortals and that's it. The Doombull is a soft general. No real ability to take armor or protect itself, just GW's lame magic weapons.

I play this army, and I do like it. But mostly I did it just because I've always wanted an army of big monsters, not because it is the most effective way of running a force.

Zeb
20-08-2005, 09:24
A frenzied Doombull with Slaguterous Blade is not something soft... Not according to my experience...! ;)

Strictly Commercial
20-08-2005, 11:01
It's soft against S7 hits from a greater daemon. No saves and 2+ to wound. That's my definition of soft.

Neknoh
20-08-2005, 11:15
And what can stand up to a Greater Daemon other than a fully ranked unit with some Combat Res heightening banner?

Besides, that is why you should get him the BoB instead of the SB, seeing as he can get up to 8 wounds (10 if marked by Nurgle) by simply attacking a softer unit first, he can also have a decent 4+ save against those.

Doombulls aren't meant for beating up characters, they are meant to rip assunder R&F troops together with their bodyguard.

If you want ellements to deal with opposing characters, some Exalted Champions might not be a bad idea, and, you have the Special Slots for their units to join in as well.

Or, you can go for Exalted Champions on Daemonic or normal steeds to join the Minotaurs (yes they can, Minotaurs are NOT Beast units, they are Beasts of Chaos Units, the BoC rulebook makes a strong distinction between the two forms of units).

So, for a DB army, I would first choose a mark, Khorne and Nurgle seems to be the best choices out there when fielding DB armies... although... Tzeentch can be vicius if the Minos are accompanied by characters such as Exalted Champions.

Doombull of your mark, Blade of Blood, Heavy Armour, Shield

2 Exalted Champions of Chaos on either God Specifik or Daemonic Mount (since they can be singled out even if they are on Chaos Steeds, due to them having a different Base Size) And some nice Weapons and armour.

2 Beastherds of appropriate size for Flank Protection and/or Screening

2 units of Minotaurs to stick the EC's in, give the Mino's a Standard each and the weapon of your choice (GW or Add. HW.)

2 Chariots to go either as a tag team and beat up units on their own, or, aid one unit of Minos each.

Then, for your Special Choices, a unit of 5 to 7 Trolls to stick your Doombull in, trust me, it WILL hurt your enemy, especially since they can regenerate AND will provide a Look Out Sir roll for your Doombull.

A unit of Furies to deal with the enemy Artillery.

And now, if you have points left, you have several nice options, you still have 2 Special and 2 Rare choices left to flesh out on if you'd like, or, you can perhaps take some Bestigors to ankhor your Flanks and fill out the Core Choices even more?

Or, why not go evil and see if you can find the points for 2 Shaggoths? That WOULD give your opponent a reason to sort out his/her priorities

JohnDutch
20-08-2005, 14:39
I like your ideas NEKNOH i will buy the beasts book and make a start I love the idea of a doom bull leading the army because of the look not always how tough he will be.
Can shaggoths be your General that might be cool as well.
Thanks for the tips anymore tips on usefull units very much still needed what about a shaman.

Neknoh
20-08-2005, 15:02
Shamans are indeed very usefull for Beasts, especially if you arm one of them with the Staff of Darkoth, however, a single Shaman, no matter how many spells he knows, won't get his point across.

A pair or trio of them instead, now we're talking magic. Also, the Lores of Nurgle and Slaanesh are highly tacticall, Nurgle emphazises on the weakening of enemy units and characters, and, also has some very nice anti Knight spells.

Slaanesh is a very destructive Lore, it focuses on movement... of the enemy units.

Unfortunately, you can only have 4 characters in a 2k game, meaning you might have to sacrifice the Exalted Champions in favour of Shamans (get both, change between battles).

Another thing to get is the Hordes of Chaos book, in it, you will find the rules for Daemons, Mortals, Mortal Champions such as the Exalted ones, Daemonic characters, Greater Daemons and a very nice list of magical items, amongst others, the Blade of Blood.

And yes, Shaggoths can be the army general, however, he takes up a Rare and a Lord slot when upgraded to a Shaggoth Champion, he is also a Large Target without nearly as good means of protection as a Doombull (who can have a bodyguard for protection) or a Beastlord, you can say he is like a weakened Greater Daemon, taking one slot less, but, being slightly weaker.

A good starting army would be the two Herds, a unit of Minotaurs and a Wargor/Shaman, that would get you an army of between 500 and 750, the ideal starting size for learning the rules of the game and the army of your choice.

This would also give you time to build up your own playing style as well and not go solely on what strange people on the internet tells you :p

Strictly Commercial
20-08-2005, 22:00
@Neknoh
I think you're seeing my point of view but believing I am arguing another one. My point was that the doombull can't take enemy characters or withstand punishment, ergo he is soft. I wasn't arguing that he wasn't effective or didn't have a place if used right, just warning somebody that you won't have a challenge ready lord.

Neknoh
21-08-2005, 06:03
Sorry for that, missed the part that said that you played a DB army at the current state, oh well, we are only humans... empowered and blessed by the Dark Four and halfway on our quest to Daemonhood... but human none the less

JohnDutch
21-08-2005, 12:49
Sorry guys I didn't mean to give the impression I am a newbie ;) I am an old fantasy veteren I have a hordes of chaos mortal army but i haven't played for well over a year.
I think I'm going to stick with the doom bull but only because I like the model :eyebrows:
I like the idea of 3 shamans and then a varied beasty force with lots of different kinds of units.
What are trolls dragon ogres and the centigores like in battle

Strictly Commercial
22-08-2005, 08:24
Dragon Ogres have an obnoxious amount of wounds if you are facing them. They're pretty underpriced IMO as you can give them upgrades and they are better than some monsters which cost around 200 points. Some would say the lack of inclusion of unit champs and standards reduces their strength but they are really just a hackdown unit going for scoring kills rather than ranking up (I've seen units of 8 dragon ogres, but two units of four would have been a better use of points methinks).

feintstar
22-08-2005, 13:55
I was figuring a TzaanBull with the Bears Anger and a Great Weapon would end up being pretty Nasty in a Tzeentchian Beast Force...

If they don't know its coming, your Doombull can jump to epic killyness... But then again, I'm a high elf player, and I don't really know what "Epic killyness" means...

Neknoh
22-08-2005, 16:34
A Doombull cannot have the Gooretooth, nore can you use a weapon whilst being under the effect of Bears Anger