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Darnok
19-07-2007, 13:22
With "what do I need for AI?"-threads popping up every few days, I thought it would be helpful to post some guidelines for beginners at last. For much more help ask in a seperate thread or have a look at the Airspace forum (http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?act=idx).

First of all, you need of course the rule book. It's quite costly with 35, but it gives you everything you need to play - except for the models. I made a list of "what to buy" for a medium starter force. They are all around 150-170 points, which gives you enough choice for smaller games and a suitable force for medium games; you also don't have to spend more than 50 - which is the same price as a Battleforce.

IMPERIUM
4 Thunderbolts
2 Lightnings
1 Marauder Bomber
1 Marauder Destroyer
150 points / 58

ELDAR
4 Nightwings
2 Phoenix
172 points / 36

TAU
6 Barracuda
2 Tigershark
148 points / 44

ORKS
6 Fightas
4 Fighta Bommers
148 points / 54

CHAOS
6 Hell Blades
4 Hell Talons
168 points / 48

Maybe a few comments about that. Listed are only the numbers of models; most of them usually come in packs of 2 (except for the Hell Blade, which comes in packs of 3), and the Marauders are sold in packs of 1. You can also see, that Eldar and Chaos are the most "cost effective" races, where the Imperium is quite expensive. I did not include Space Marines, as I see them in a supporting role for the Imperial Navy, so they should be considered after a few games and a bit of experience, not as a start. Last but not least, all the point costs refer to the "naked" models; you usually have the option for so called additional weapon load, that increases the point costs - so it is easily possible to push each of the forces above over 200 points and more.

I hope this helps people who consider to start AI. For those with a book and maybe even game experience: input is appreciated, I strongly encourage everybody to get envolved.

Greets, Darnok

fattdex
19-07-2007, 13:24
/concur with that
sticky please!

Captain_Ardias
19-07-2007, 17:17
That helps a lot, but I do have a question. Would you mind posting some lists for smaller beginner forces? Perhaps even ones that can be bought from gw's epic range (although the models don't compare at all to fw's) to help out some of us cheapos who had enough trouble buying the book? :)

Spacker
19-07-2007, 18:00
ELDAR
4 Nightwings
2 Phoenix
172 points / 36


I make that 176pts.

kris.sherriff
19-07-2007, 19:41
If this is going to be a sticky maybe have a brief description of each race's playing style aswell?

Charax
19-07-2007, 19:43
each race's playing style should be obvious from the stats in the book, and if you don't have the book you really shouldn't have bought your squadron yet, unless you're going by a pre-existing preference.

And if you're doing that, play style is irrelevant anyway.

Darnok
19-07-2007, 20:56
That helps a lot, but I do have a question. Would you mind posting some lists for smaller beginner forces? Perhaps even ones that can be bought from gw's epic range (although the models don't compare at all to fw's) to help out some of us cheapos who had enough trouble buying the book? :)

I think about that and will post something on that topic tomorrow.


I make that 176pts.

With a Nightwing for 28 and a Phoenix for 30 points it still adds up to 172. But any help and corrections is appreciated.

neXus6
21-07-2007, 13:18
Having it set out like that is making me a lot more tempted to get into IA theres a couple of players round these parts but I got it into my head that it was really expensive for some reason. :rolleyes:
Cheers Darnok. :D

Now I just need to pick a force and pull some cash together. :p

Spacker
23-07-2007, 09:09
I think about that and will post something on that topic tomorrow.



With a Nightwing for 28 and a Phoenix for 30 points it still adds up to 172. But any help and corrections is appreciated.

Ah crap, I misread it and was doing 4 Phoenix and 2 Nightwings (which happens to be the fighter loadout for my own Eldar force, along with 2 Vampires).

Captain_Ardias
24-07-2007, 16:26
Although not nearly as cool as the forgeworld models, I've been having some good success scratch building various fighters for the couple races I'm interested in. If you're having trouble choosing a force (or just want to have some nice new models to play with when your book arrives), some stand ins or rough scratch builds can be quick and effective as a learning force. It can also save you a couple hundred dollars before you realize that you don't really like the squadron you just got.

neXus6
24-07-2007, 18:06
Aye thats a fair point. :p
I recon I'll just get myself the rulebook for now and borrow some other peoples stuff/use proxies. I mean even just from looking at the rules it would be possible to get a basic feel of how each force works.

Lavfluris
24-08-2007, 22:33
ORKS
6 Fightas
4 Fighta Bommers
148 points / 54Would you recommend including the new Ork Bommas in your starting army list? And if so, what would you remove to include them?

Cheers. ;)

Darnok
24-08-2007, 22:58
Would you recommend including the new Ork Bommas in your starting army list? And if so, what would you remove to include them?

Cheers. ;)

That is a very good question, and to be honest: I don't really know.

The stats of the new bombers are not even known by now, and from what we know they might have a lot of options. "A lot of" like in "too much for a beginner". Given that I would say: take the Ork starter force as it is now, get some experience with it, and include one or more of the new bombers that fit your style later.

However, I do think the new bmbers are a must for every true Air Ork, as they give you much more variety and the transport option (at last). So you want some of them - at a later point.

HarkonGreywolf
25-08-2007, 10:21
I agree regarding the new Bommers.
Until the book comes out with their rules in it's a bit of a "blind shooting alley" as to what will be an option and what the rules will be.
The "temporary" rules issued by FW are total pants and not worth taking IMO.
We had better and more "Orky" rules sets made up in here by the fans!
I only hope to Mork that the final rules are more representative of an Orky Bommer with loads of Dakka than those poor efforts so far! :(

I am also going to build some "scratch" built Bommers, but I've put the whole thing on hold after the issue of the temporary rules! I wany my efforts to look the part and to be carrying the weapons options available where possible, and that means nothing happens till the official rules are avialable.

As a beginner, I'd say leave the Bommers until they come out officially rules-wise, that'll give you time to appreciate how good the basic Orks are! :D

HG

Lavfluris
25-08-2007, 19:55
Thanks Darnok and HarkonGreywolf.



As a beginner, I'd say leave the Bommers until they come out officially rules-wise, that'll give you time to appreciate how good the basic Orks are! :DWell, that's my birthday sorted then. ;)

Mr Zephy
29-08-2007, 11:01
I hate to be pedantic, but in your OP you say that you don't need to spend more than 50, but that ork squadron costs 54?

Morsleib
29-08-2007, 11:13
I hate to be pedantic, but in your OP you say that you don't need to spend more than 50, but that ork squadron costs 54?

Correct. You don't NEED to pay more than 50 (see Chaos Tau & Eldar) but if you want to you CAN pay more (Orcs & Imperial).

Morsleib

Tyra_Nid
30-08-2007, 07:44
I hate to be pedantic, but in your OP you say that you don't need to spend more than 50, but that ork squadron costs 54?

Also, you could just get 8 fighter-bombers instead, which is less $$$, possibility for more points, and some suggest that it would be more effective in game terms as well :)

Darnok
30-08-2007, 08:17
I hate to be pedantic, but in your OP you say that you don't need to spend more than 50, but that ork squadron costs 54?

True, and the bundle for the Imerium is 58, but to be honest I did care more about "a suitable force for medium games" than the price. I observed the fact that they are all roughly around 50 later (with the Imperium stretching that frame by quite a good portion...), but the price wasn't my main concern. Still a valid point though.

Tyra_Nid
31-08-2007, 00:34
For the Imperial list, you can easily knock of the Marauder Bomber and increase the AWL of the fighters and/or destroyer.

I dont really think you need two bombers (I havent in my experience), and that brings the price back under 50 :)

Axel
01-09-2007, 14:27
I will likely drop into AI soon, too, to play with/against my son.

With roughly 10k of Epic Orks (before Gargants) one army is set. With the size differences I will have to replace my Epic fighterbommers for AI/FW stuff, and will likely go for the suggested force and some Bommas (they simply look too good to pass).

What would be an appropriate opponent for Orks? Are there any matches that should be avoided (like Necrons vs. Guard in 40k), or do they all play fun and well? I am leaning towards Guard to start with, but honestly I am suficiently in love with the 40k background that I will play any race, and would like to choose that which offers the most fun if pitched against Orks.

I would like to draw from your experiences here...

MadDogMike
01-09-2007, 17:55
Honestly I don't know if any of the races thus far are unbalanced vs. each other, with the exception perhaps of superheavy fliers that aren't commonly used anyway. Orks basically need to rely on their insanely heavy firepower at close range to kill fighters. You might have some issues with faster races (Eldar are obnoxious to all factions, but at least they're costed appropriately) but most of the reports I've heard about orks make them out as very deadly.

In answer to your question for "good first match", the Imperium probably does work best. Get some Thunderbolts and a pair of Lightnings and you're good to go for dogfighting; Marauders for bombing and Valkyries/Thunderhawks for transport missions can follow later. One other thing to consider buying with your orks also that isn't listed is Grot bombs; they're technically an optional weapon, but they add a lot to fighta-bombas and let's face it, how can you resist a grot-piloted suicide bomb? :D

Axel
02-09-2007, 00:46
Thanks. Grot bombs will certainly go on my list.
Seems that a well made Ork force with all of the three bommers will easily cost around 125, and if I go for some variety with the Imperials that should amount to free shipping (ouch).

Anyway. Does it make sense to include some ground defenses to start? How well do the Epic SG antiair trukks fit towards the FW flyers?

fattdex
02-09-2007, 03:37
chaos and orks play fairly similarly, so i wouldn't go for them. i'd grab four to six thunderbolts and two lightnings, ground defences arent necessary and only come into their own in big games with points to spare.

Tyra_Nid
02-09-2007, 09:22
What would be an appropriate opponent for Orks? Are there any matches that should be avoided (like Necrons vs. Guard in 40k), or do they all play fun and well?

I would say that Imperials are a great opponent for Orks. They are quite balanced, and I think with similarly skilled players they would be very evenly matched.

No matchups should be 'avoided' as such, but some combinations can be more difficult for one side or the other. Just remember that this isnt a tourny game, so things arent always going to be even!



(Eldar are obnoxious to all factions, but at least they're costed appropriately)

Well, except for the Vampire Hunter ;)



One other thing to consider buying with your orks also that isn't listed is Grot bombs;

Seconded- great fun!



Does it make sense to include some ground defenses to start? How well do the Epic SG antiair trukks fit towards the FW flyers?

I wouldnt bother. You wont use ground defences in most missions, and they arent good value in game terms, either (except in some specialised situations).

Relative sizes of SG vs FW wont matter that much, since it is a different perspective (ground vs air). If the SG AA trucks are same size as the plastic epic trucks, then the scale match is pretty good.



chaos and orks play fairly similarly,

GEH!? No way... Only thing similar is the outnumbering element... Otherwise they are very different kettles of fish.

Eldar and Chaos have more in common than Orks and Chaos ;)

fattdex
02-09-2007, 11:26
i dunno, we played orks vs chaos a couple of times and the moves and ranges have been pretty similar even if the speeds haven't been.

Tyra_Nid
02-09-2007, 11:45
Hmmm. They are both fast and swarmy, BUT:

Chaos optimal range is medium, Ork is short.
Chaos has very high maneuverability, Ork does not.
Chaos has the thrust to adjust speed very quickly, Ork does not (and really need to play the Alt game to work on speed)
Chaos is very fragile, Ork is not.

Maybe its just me, but when I use either, I tend to play different games and cant imagine them using the same strategies unless there is something wild Im not thinking of...

MadDogMike
02-09-2007, 18:26
Thanks. Grot bombs will certainly go on my list.
Seems that a well made Ork force with all of the three bommers will easily cost around 125, and if I go for some variety with the Imperials that should amount to free shipping (ouch).

Heh, yeah I wound up getting my Eldar airforce at Games Day Baltimore to avoid the shipping cost at least; my wallet is still wincing.


Anyway. Does it make sense to include some ground defenses to start? How well do the Epic SG antiair trukks fit towards the FW flyers?

Nice but unneeded, particularly if you already have the Epic versions. Your Epic stuff will also come in handy for making ground targets for attack missions BTW (much more interesting than bombing an objective marker :D).

killa kan kaus
04-09-2007, 02:46
I am looking to start with chaos but there is not much selections can chaos "loot" vehicles or take any ground defences?

Darnok
04-09-2007, 08:16
I am looking to start with chaos but there is not much selections can chaos "loot" vehicles or take any ground defences?

There is no official option to "loot" other flyers, but I would use common sense. If you want to play missions that need transports, you have to hijack something, as Chaos doesn't have any transports at the moment. Same goes for ground defences. From the background you are on the safe side, as "traitor guard or renegades" includes air forces as well.

tabletopnews
04-09-2007, 15:54
I agree. Just use Imperial air defences for the moment and say they are traitor units or have been taken over by renegades.

Ditto for the transport option

killa kan kaus
05-09-2007, 04:54
thanks chaos decorated valkrie should work fine and be fun to paint

Cal585
15-09-2007, 04:27
There's no Chaos transport? :eek: Do you just have to use a traitor guard one? :eyebrows:

I'm hoping to start AI. I will probably end up collecting two forces, and as such will probably just start with the rulebook and a couple of fighters.

I will definately be starting Tau, but I'm a little unsure on which second force to collect (which would also end up being my second army in 40k and BFG if I start). The two options so far are; Daemonhunters (probably just Imperial vehicles) or Thousand Sons.

What are the main differences in game play between Imperial and Chaos?

Would a Thousand Son paint scheme (blue with gold raised areas) work on the Chaos vehicles? And has anyone done anything similar (did do a Google search btu didn't find anything much...)

Is one more balanced against Tau than the other?

Thanks for any help.

Tyra_Nid
15-09-2007, 08:48
Imperials and Chaos are hugely different.

Chaos are far faster and maneuverable, but are fragile and pack a bit less of a punch. They have no transport option, and less variety in aircraft (whereas Imperial has the widest range in the game).

Chaos: Swarmy, fast horde (tie-fighters)
Imperial: Mid-range in just about everything, basic fighters have some of the most withering firepower for their class (Thunderbolt).

Imperial and Tau are probably the closest match in terms of play style (with a few interesting differences). Chaos and Tau will be very different, but challenging to play especially if new.

Cal585
15-09-2007, 08:59
Hmmm... thanks. What do most Chaos players do when they need a transport in a scenario? Just use an Imperial traitor one?

...This is going to be very hard to decide...

Tyra_Nid
16-09-2007, 00:24
Dunno, never seen a Chaos player use a transport :)

Traitor Imperial seems to be the widely accepted option. Thunderhawk seems quite logical.

Cal585
16-09-2007, 10:30
Hmmm... I'll probably go with Imperials and create a Daemonhunters 40k army. I'll start saving for the rulebook and some Barracudas and Thunderbolts (probably one of each to start).

If I was to get the Tactica Imperialis book, would that need a lot of models for the campaign inside?

Cal585
21-09-2007, 13:15
I'll just wait until the Tactica Imperialis book comes out.

In the meantime, how even are Thunderbolts and Barracudas (say if I was to get 2 of each)?

Crube
21-09-2007, 14:53
So, looking at AI from the outside, is it primarily an air to air combat game, or does it rely on interaction with Epic stuff...

I'm assuming it's a game in it's own right.


( I know this is probably a dumb question, but I want to be sure before I shell out on the book...)

Leunam
21-09-2007, 16:19
In the meantime, how even are Thunderbolts and Barracudas (say if I was to get 2 of each)?

This is how I started out, and if I remember right, they will be the exact same points with additional weapon loads. I think the Tau and Imperials are very evenly matched.


So, looking at AI from the outside, is it primarily an air to air combat game, or does it rely on interaction with Epic stuff

It's all dogfights, but there are some ground aspects to keep in mind that are optional (bombing runs, strafing, defences, landing/picking up troops). Epic doesn't play any role in it whatsoever.

Crube
21-09-2007, 17:23
Thangyouverymuch Mr Leunam, Sir....

"Hello, is that Forgeworld...?"

Cal585
22-09-2007, 12:01
This is how I started out, and if I remember right, they will be the exact same points with additional weapon loads. I think the Tau and Imperials are very evenly matched.

Cool thanks! That's my start sorted out. I'm a bit worried about choosing a colour scheme, I've never been good at decisions :rolleyes:


I always thought it would be cool to incorporate a game of epic and AI, allowing interaction between the two in terms of bombing runs and ground defences being able to shoot at either. It would add another dimension.:cool:

Crube
22-09-2007, 12:51
I must admit, i'm liking AI the more I read about it.

i can feel a project log coming on - but folloing every aspect of starting AI, form getting the rules, devising a couple of fleets, getting the models, then prepping, and painting, then hopefull playing a couple of games...

Cal585
22-09-2007, 12:57
Aye, I know I'll be recording my process (if only for the sole purpose to keep me motivated), however, I don't think I'll put it all in a log. Maybe some pictures and games but that's about it I think...

Crube
22-09-2007, 14:13
A couple of further questions...

How long does a game of AI last? Say at 150-200 points

and

Have there been any / are there any plans for any AI tournaments?

orangesm
22-09-2007, 15:03
The Tournaments you where asking about - yes there has been at least one!
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?showtopic=347

I sadly have not played in so long I could not tell you how long a game is.

mistformsquirrel
27-09-2007, 16:22
Hmm... at that price, plus the fact that I'd probably get 4 Thunderbolts for Epic anyway...

Yah, I think I'm going to be doing this at some point. Can't say when for sure.

Hmm...

A question though, with no rulebook to look from, for a slightly modified Imperium starting force, how does this look:

6 Thunderbolts, 1 Marauder Bomber, with upgraded weaponry all around?

Only reason I ask is that Lightnings weren't available pre-Heresy, and the Naval force I'm thinking of making would be a pre-Heresy deviation from the Imperium. (Again, no rulebook, so I have no idea if thats feasible.)

Leunam
27-09-2007, 16:31
For pre-heresy standards, I'm sure that's fine.

However, for anything else, I say 4 Thunderbolts, 2 Lightnings, and a Marauder Destroyer would work nicely.

Tyra_Nid
28-09-2007, 01:27
How long does a game of AI last? Say at 150-200 points?

Can be very quick, or very long, depending on how experienced the players are and how lucky they are. Ive seen games end after 3 turns, and games end after the full 12 (although that doesnt matter much). AI can be very brutal, very quickly, if one player is much luckier (and/or more skilled) than the other.

But for that Points size, Id prob estimate ~2hours including setup etc.


Have there been any / are there any plans for any AI tournaments?

Just the Outpost one linked to earlier. We will probably be having another in a few months time, but its on the opposite side of the world to most people!


6 Thunderbolts, 1 Marauder Bomber, with upgraded weaponry all around?

Looks good, no problems. Id prob look at 2 Marauders or 1 Marauder Destroyer for the bombing, but Tbolts are veeeery versatile craft so you should be right with 6 of them!

mistformsquirrel
28-09-2007, 01:37
Cool, I like the Thunderbolts look a lot better than the Lightning in addition to it suiting my force's fluff better >_< I'll have to get the rulebook sometime soonish. I'm not sure how soon I'll actually get to jump into this; but I'm eyeing this and Epic both now that my 40k and Fantasy armies are nearing completion. Then it'll be on to another 40k and another fantasy army <,< but I expect that to be at least a year from now.

Inquisitor Skyshadow
28-09-2007, 07:21
would a pack of thunderbolts and a pack of hellblades be enough to teach people how to play?

Darnok
28-09-2007, 07:39
would a pack of thunderbolts and a pack of hellblades be enough to teach people how to play?

If you just want to learn the game mechanics: it will work. But if you want to have fun you need some more models. Two/three models per side is just not enough.

Inquisitor Skyshadow
28-09-2007, 08:53
yeah i agree, but 2 models per sides enough to teach the game correct?

Tyra_Nid
28-09-2007, 13:34
Yes. However, two Tbolts vs 3 Hellblades isnt particularly even in points. Also, the chaos are a bit too 'advanced' for a new player. Tau vs Imp (2 planes each) would be the most even, or 2 Tbolts vs 3 Ork Fightas (but that involves purchasing 3 packs).

But I stress that Chaos dont make a good intro-game force!

Notasquick
29-09-2007, 00:26
I did not include Space Marines, as I see them in a supporting role for the Imperial Navy, so they should be considered after a few games and a bit of experience, not as a start.


I cannot say I agree with this view. Often Space Marine Chapters operate independently of both the Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard.

I would be interested in seeing a Space Marine Chapter only list. That would be a list with no Imperial Navy (flyers) or Imperial Guard (flyers/ground) - i.e. no thunderbolts, lightnings, valkyries, hydras, manticores, etc.

Darnok
29-09-2007, 06:06
I cannot say I agree with this view. Often Space Marine Chapters operate independently of both the Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard.

I would be interested in seeing a Space Marine Chapter only list. That would be a list with no Imperial Navy (flyers) or Imperial Guard (flyers/ground) - i.e. no thunderbolts, lightnings, valkyries, hydras, manticores, etc.

Interesting point raised, but a bit OT for this thread. I'd like to discuss the topic here (http://warseer.com/forums/aeronautica-imperialis/105239-marines-in-ai-addition-or-standalone-post1957916.html#post1957916).

shakespear
13-10-2007, 02:51
So the lighting fighters mentioned in the starter imperial list, are they "Strike" or "attack" ?

fattdex
13-10-2007, 05:20
The autocannon versions.

shakespear
13-10-2007, 05:31
Well, for those of us purchasing a rulebook and minis at the same time, which is that?

fattdex
13-10-2007, 05:41
the ones without the missiles!

AERONAUTICA IMPERIALIS LIGHTNING ATTACK FIGHTERS
(Product Code AW-INE-F-003)

shakespear
13-10-2007, 15:49
ah, its hard to see the missles on thewarstores page

mistformsquirrel
16-10-2007, 14:22
Random stupid question time! >.>

I've seen people talk about including Thunderhawks in their Imperial Navy fleets. My 40k-obsessed friend finally bought the AI book recently, and I got to look over it and uhm...

I can't find anything that lets you include a Thunderhawk in an Imperial Navy Squadron!

The only reason I ask, is that I was thinking that instead of a Marauder, it'd suit my fluff just as well/maybe a little better to include a Thunderhawk. It seems to have almost as much ground attack firepower; plus it doubles as a transport, and its fairly tough as well. Plus I just like the model >.> which is always a plus.

But obviously, if I can't take it in the squadron I want to start, it'd be a little silly to buy one <;_;>

Tyra_Nid
16-10-2007, 14:25
No problems using Thunderhawks in an IN list. Both 'human' forces can be used interchangably. It says that somewhere, but cant remember where exactly.

I tend to use my Thunderhawk instead of Marauder Destroyer. Seems to be pretty decent on paper, but I find it doesnt usually perform quite as well in game. Saying that, Ive only used it a handful of times.

mageboltrat
16-10-2007, 15:24
FAQ Tactica imperialis.

mistformsquirrel
16-10-2007, 15:50
... Of course... a FAQ...

... I told you it was a stupid question! <X_X> Thanks, both of you!

donuter
25-11-2007, 18:13
what do the tau do playing style wise and where to go next (mant orca or those new fighter drones0

knitemare
06-02-2008, 16:13
I just picked up the AI book and two packs of Thunderbolts. I have two main questions, I hope someone here can supply an answer.

1) The stands that connect to the planes are too small/hole is too big. Are you supposed to glue the clear plastic pole to the plane? If so, what are the different sized poles for?
2) Does anyone know of a good painting guide for AI? I don't want my planes to look dumpy.

Wolflord Havoc
06-02-2008, 16:33
I just picked up the AI book and two packs of Thunderbolts. I have two main questions, I hope someone here can supply an answer.

1) The stands that connect to the planes are too small/hole is too big. Are you supposed to glue the clear plastic pole to the plane? If so, what are the different sized poles for?
2) Does anyone know of a good painting guide for AI? I don't want my planes to look dumpy.

I would use small 3mm round earth magnets - Trim the thinner part of the top of the plastic stem glue a magnet onto this, then carefully drill a 3.1mm hole into the base of the Aircraft, place some super glue into the hole and then placing a magnet on the stem (which already has a magnet on it) shove it into teh hole - this ensuring that the polarity is correct etc.

The only trick is ensuring that all teh stems and aircraft are using teh same polarity unless you plan on making dedicated stands for each Aircraft.

There must be a thread on this somewhere on this forum.

Paint schemes - wow! Try any WW2 plane site or book?

The FW books have 'plates' as well showing paint schemes etc.

mattjgilbert
06-02-2008, 17:10
There must be a thread on this somewhere on this forum. This one? http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68919

knitemare
06-02-2008, 17:40
I would use small 3mm round earth magnets

Paint schemes - wow! Try any WW2 plane site or book?

The FW books have 'plates' as well showing paint schemes etc.

Magnets: Already did this with all my LotR Warg Riders. It's not that tough and I still have a bunch of magnets.

Paint Schemes: I really meant in progress images of people painting them. I haven't seen any painted outside of the web. I'll just give it a go.

Thanks for the help!

Easy E
08-02-2008, 16:45
Thanks to Darnok's list I sat down and sculpted 6 Fightas and 4 Fighta-Bommaz this weekend. I will have pics up soon. Overall, it was pretty easy to do an I could probably bang out a fighta every 30 minutes. The 10 planes I sculpted took 6 hours total. Perhaps I will write a tutorial on the subject if there is an interest.

Sadly, I don't own the rules and no one locally plays it. Sometimes I am an idiot.

Edit: Pics are in my sculpting thread, the 100th post.

neecheeisdead
18-02-2008, 00:43
Question: What is the approximate length (and width) of the Thunderbolts? I want to try and scratchbuild some

Steam_Giant
18-02-2008, 15:32
This site has some good size comparison shots.

http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Spack106&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

neecheeisdead
18-02-2008, 21:15
Thanks! That's a big help!

donuter
21-02-2008, 20:47
can you use imperial as renegades (i ask as no chaos transpots and grond stuff)

Steam_Giant
21-02-2008, 20:51
can you use imperial as renegades (i ask as no chaos transpots and grond stuff)

I do :)

I think the new super heavy bomber may also be able to transport troops, however theres such lovely Imperial & SM aircraft available for conversion why limit your Chaos to 3 types !? :skull:

Chevalric
26-02-2008, 23:15
I like it thank you, at least i have a idea how to start my force, hehe.
i have just one question, can someone point out the real difference between the marauder bomber and marauder destroyer, except from the weapon loads?

fattdex
27-02-2008, 01:09
Marauders are best used to deliver bombs from height 3+, and taken as pairs without additional weapons (as it doesn't cost a lot more to buy a whole other marauder as it does to buy additional weapons), which gives you more firepower, hits and chances to deliver the payloads.

The destroyer is best tooled up with rockets and pelting in hell for leather at height one, if you miss the target the rear assault cannon will likely clean it up for you (also means you can fly between two targets and attack to the front and rear on one turn).

And, IMO the destroyer model looks cooler :)

Steam_Giant
27-02-2008, 09:40
And, IMO the destroyer model looks cooler

Even better than the new marauders if you ask me, sometimes i gaze at it lovingly while whistling the Dambusters theme.

Good luck with your squadron Chevalric, what fighter choices are you going for ?

Chevalric
27-02-2008, 11:06
i`m taking 4 thunderbolts and 2 lightnings, and they will be flying in pairs of two
Chevalric

Inquisitor Konig
23-03-2008, 18:08
So I have been thinking about starting this game for a while but am stuck on which force to begin with.

A friend of mine has already claimed Eldar and I certainly do not want to play Tau or Chaos which leaves me with Imperials or Orks.

I am leaning towards Orks at the moment because the Imperials seem a little generic to me. What do you all think? I want the force that is the most interesting to play with.

marv335
23-03-2008, 18:42
Orks are fun to play and have decent models/units available to them.
Grot bombs are simply win.

Steam_Giant
23-03-2008, 23:14
Orks are fun to play and have decent models/units available to them.
Grot bombs are simply win.

I agree with Marv, but dont forget Imperials have the biggest variety of models and therefore far from generic, they are more customisable ! Especially if you include the SM aircraft too :skull:

Darnok
24-03-2008, 00:33
Even though the Imperials might be more generic, they are also much more varied than Orks. So if you are undecided between Orks and Imperium concerning their look, go for the Imperium. They have so much more to choose from, so much more variety. I am happy with my Orks though, but they are a bit onesided.

Inquisitor Konig
24-03-2008, 04:30
The thing is that I will probebly be getting my entire fleet before I have a chance to read the rules or even play a game.

I like both the Imperial and the Ork planes... maybe even the ork planes more. However since I know nothing of how each plane works in the game, prehaps you all could give some brief pointers on the over strengths and weaknesses of each fleet... especialy since I will be battling Eldar most often.

Cheers

fattdex
24-03-2008, 05:41
If you are battling eldar, maybe try chaos or orks. Eldar pack a lot of firepower up close and are very versatile, but their craft are very expensive points wise. Numbers can give you a huge tactical advantage in the game, as it is alternative activation, if he is bringing 5 aircraft and you have 9, that is 4 planes of yours that can pick and choose exactly where they want to maneuvre. the orks and chaos have the cheapest fighters, and I think chaos has an advantage over orks when fighting eldar. orks have cheap fighters with excellent short range firepower, but their thrust and speed is not as good. Chaos have the cheapest fighters with excellent medium range firepower and the same thrust and comparably fast speed as eldar, although their fighters have only one hit point to make up for it. Basically if you play fighters versus fighter against eldar, orks will outnumber them 2:1 and chaos will outnumber them about 7:3

Ramon
26-03-2008, 15:22
So I'm back from a loong break and just want to restart with AI. I use to run an all valkyre pack and cause havock with them... and t have an ork skwad... but now I want to try something different.

What do you suggest? eldar? chaos? tau maybe? never tried those and just curious on any tips befor i start creating my ships.

I'll post pics of my proxis for valkyres... sure you'll like it.

Thanks

Steam_Giant
26-03-2008, 15:55
Here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133693) is a good thread for scratchbuilt AI craft, im sure your proxy valkyries would be most welcome.

As for which one next, what are you looking for ?

A powerful & agile Eldar
A Swarm of expendable chaos
Or A tooled up Tau hunting party ?

Ramon
26-03-2008, 23:02
Interesting... first i thougt about the eldar... but they seem a bit cheesy to me. the Tau look interesting and the new ships look intriguing... dont have tactica imperialis so , dont know what to expect from them...
chaos is a bit restricted... only 2 choices but tempting...

I'm between Tau or Chaos... maybe the Barracudas and tigersharks will be interesting option. We mostly play dogfifhts and keep it as an ongoing campaign, so pilots gain skills and sometimes die...

My "valkyres" are paintend in bright colors as a "flying circus" they are just miniatures from mechwarrior painted in different colors, but since i had a big bunch of them...

Patriarch
27-03-2008, 13:18
As of yesterday I've got Navy, Marine, Eldar and Chaos Squadrons, and both books. Now I just need to read the rules and find an opponent....

Steam_Giant
27-03-2008, 19:52
Wow, was it your birthday ? or did you take out that second mortgage ?? :D

studderigdave
27-03-2008, 23:35
this summer im on a quest to paint up a team/gang/army/fleet ETC of everything SG from GW. of course AI isnt a SG (yet) but im gonna include it into my project anyways. no plan on actually playing the game, just want to have a force painted up for show mostly, or to play if someone else in the area starts up.

a few questions.

1. what is a good point base? i plan on getting tau stuff, and want a decently sized force that can be cut fown to smaller games but hold its own is decently sized games.

2. since i dont have the rulebook and dont intend to buy it, could somepne please map me out a good tau list, money is an object, but im able to put some green into this project, just no mantas please :)

thanks all

Steam_Giant
28-03-2008, 00:23
Check out the first post of this thread :)



TAU
6 Barracuda
2 Tigershark
148 points / 44

studderigdave
28-03-2008, 06:31
man i didnt think AI was such a small unit game like that, but that looks good enough for me, ill put that down as items to get at gamesday this year. now i just need to figure out what LoTR force to paint up.

Patriarch
28-03-2008, 11:32
Wow, was it your birthday ? or did you take out that second mortgage ?? :D

The chaos ones are FW's lovely resin models, the rest are my existing epic minis.

So I can use all the aircraft in either game. The clear bases can sit on on top of loose AI bases, as all measurement, movement and fire arcs are judged from the base as the model is just a marker.

The most expensive bits of the order were the books. But I had to get some GK stuff as well....

So I'm only down 150 :eek: My wife threw a fit when she saw!

Steam_Giant
28-03-2008, 15:03
man i didnt think AI was such a small unit game like that, but that looks good enough for me, ill put that down as items to get at gamesday this year. now i just need to figure out what LoTR force to paint up.

Good luck with your project.


So I'm only down 150 :eek: My wife threw a fit when she saw!

Im lucky there as my GF regularly blitz' her disposable income on "lush" products (perhaps your familliar with it ?) We have mountains of Soaps and gels and shampoo and she still orders more every month.
I dont understand it but she loves it.

Anyway the point was, I never have to worry about my purchases being frowned upon....

Slightly off-topic.. ah well :)

Patriarch
28-03-2008, 18:58
Im lucky there as my GF regularly blitz' her disposable income on "lush" products (perhaps your familliar with it ?) We have mountains of Soaps and gels and shampoo and she still orders more every month.


Yep, we've got the bath bombs too!

Must be something about being a "Warhammer Widow" :D

Ramon
29-03-2008, 18:38
Ok, so here we start with a pic of the whole flight... 11 valkyres... can be really anoying


then a pic of a squad.. i keep the in groups of 3 or four so they cna concentrate fire


And finally a detail of one of the little buggers... the fans can rotate...

RFT
07-04-2008, 12:47
having seen the game being played, and having a chance to flip through the rulebook, atthe FW open day yesterday, My friend and I have teken the plunge into AI- though for now we've just got two planes each, which I know isn;t enough for really good game, but I'd already spent a fair bit this month. next month will bring more planes, though.

Steam_Giant
07-04-2008, 22:52
nice models Ramon.

RFT which two planes did you go for ?

RFT
08-04-2008, 06:50
I've got two thunderbolts and by friend's got two barracudas.

Cal585
08-04-2008, 08:53
Interesting models (and yes I am actually posting!)

I have 2 Cudas and 2 Thunderbolts that I need to paint up. Then I'll take some pics for this area of the forum. Just need to work out the Bolt scheme. Thinking mottled codex and shadow grey as a type of camo, with dark blue on the nose designating them as navy planes.

RFT
08-04-2008, 09:18
My Thunderbolts are likely to be an Early WW2 USAAF scheme with all-over olive green and some yellow details.

maybe OT, but is it possible to get AI/Epic scale decals?

Zaeon
28-04-2008, 19:29
Why must vampires be so expensive?

is there a tactica for noobs around?

Steam_Giant
28-04-2008, 21:06
Why must vampires be so expensive?

is there a tactica for noobs around?

Hmm.. Points or /$ ? they ARE nice sculpts ! Infact the whole AI range is sculpted well.

Try the Airbase forum (http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?c=1)

Havock
20-05-2008, 12:49
Say, the Impies... Would it be a bad idea to exchange a marauder for two Vultures?

Read the rules, too bad they don't have access to 'treetop-level flying' for protection against stuff. Fialry slow buggers, but with a ******** of firepower and versatility to boot.

Jeod
31-05-2008, 15:33
What sort of game size would a complete beginner play? For my Tau Air Cadre im thinking of getting and Orca, two Tiger Shark AX1.0s and four Barracudas...is that too much or too little or do i need more fighters?

Kossac
01-07-2008, 15:18
Jeod: Really depends on your style of play. If you want a bucketload of shots to be thrown against one target, go for more fighters. The AX1.0's can take out most scary things... Although I would suggest dropping one of the AX1.0's and taking a couple more Cuda's... the Orca generally needs an escort, what with its rather measly, down pointing only firepower... fast enemies like chaos and Eldar would rip it into small peices from above. But hey, its your choice.

Havock: The vulture is actually really good in points for what you get. Slow, but tougher than a Hellblade and it can be configured for light anti air support and designated ground attack death runs.

Can I just say, I think I have found the king of bombers. I've played chaos from the start, and have just purchased myself a Harbinger. It has the option for 39 bombs about its person... or 26 bombs and a handful of Uber bombs... Any target hit is destroyed on a dice roll of 4+, regardless of how many hits it has.

Along with 12 hits and unlimited ammo Autocannons on both sides and front? To quote Boris from Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge: Bring on de Migs...

Havock
01-07-2008, 16:31
Meh, the marauder destroyer seems like 'best pts for bang' to me.

Monticus
08-09-2008, 09:00
Hey guys, I'm new to Warseer and AI. I have been gaming for over 30 years (mainly historical) but love the idea of AI. Its going to take almost a month for me to get my books from the UK (long way to New Zealand). I was wondering is the AI squadron system similar to real life? is the a number of aircraft to a flight/squadron and if so what is that break down? The main reason I ask is the exchange rate and postage is a killer for me so I want to make sure I'm not going the wrong way about it.

If it helps I'm looking at Tau and Chaos forces to start with.

Cheers
Monty

Anaris
08-09-2008, 10:40
You've nothing to worry about.

AI doesn't use squadron sizes or anything like it during the make up of army lists. They only restrictions you have is that all aircraft are either classed as a Fighter, or a Bomber and depending on what mission you play will depend of what types of aircraft you are allowed.

e.g. Bombing Raid: Attacker is allowed Fighters and Bombers, Defender is allowed Fighters and Ground Defences

Jonik
08-09-2008, 11:00
I've been thinking of starting too - with imperials to go with my guard. Having read the forum lots and lots, here's what I had in mind -

4 thunderbolts, skystrike missiles
2 Lightnings
1 marauder destroyer (giving its missiles to thunderbolts)
2 Valkaries for transporting

Can I play all the missions? Competitively? (ie, do i have a chance?)

Will I *NEED* anything else? I'm aiming for one purchase only, and keeping the cost down...

Darnok
08-09-2008, 12:39
Can I play all the missions? Competitively? (ie, do i have a chance?)

Will I *NEED* anything else? I'm aiming for one purchase only, and keeping the cost down...

Yes, you can. But you might have the short end of the stick if it comes to choice. And you don't have any real punch for bombing missions. Of course you have ground attack capabilities, but none of them is that big of a threat. And you have only one designated bomber. For bigger games you definetely lack the models.

But anyway I'd advice for some test games first. Do you already have the book, or played some games with someone who has it? I would not spend that much money on something you don't know at all.

Jonik
08-09-2008, 13:31
I've read the rules, and the army list, but no more than that (ran out of time!), and have read almost all of the threads both here and the airspace forum. But nothing beats first hand experience I suppose!

I havent had a chance to play it yet - there's only my friend and myself, and we're still at the planning stage just incase.

Is the game meant to be played at a certain amount of points? (ie 40k is 1500pts, not 400pts) Or can it be played (continually, with the the same amount of fun) at lower ends? (ie 100-150pts or 150-200pts)

8 fighters and 4 bombers for instance, let alone transports is verging on 300+, and is beginning to get rather expensive...

fattdex
08-09-2008, 13:56
Thats a huge game

A normal dogfight is 120 points- 5 or 6 thunderbolts/lightning, 4 eldar craft, up to 12 chaos fighters.

Jonik
08-09-2008, 14:00
Thats a huge game

A normal dogfight is 120 points- 5 or 6 thunderbolts/lightning, 4 eldar craft, up to 12 chaos fighters.


But doesn't one need bombers and transports?

Steam_Giant
08-09-2008, 18:34
But doesn't one need bombers and transports?

You need bombers and transports for bombing or transport missions ;) You may also need ground defences for these missions. However these are to enrich the gameplay and you may find generally you are playing Dogfight missions (at least to begin with). I think it is widely recognised that a small collection of fighters is the way to start AI. Having said that i take my maurader destroyer everywhere and i love my harbringer ! Check out the scratchbuild thread in M,P&T for ideas on softening the blow to your wallet.

EDIT Link (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133693)

stonedog
08-09-2008, 18:38
Hi... well i've decided to shell out at GD and start playing AI as imperials but had a couple of quick questions

For the imperial starter force on the 1st page of:
4 Thunderbolts
2 Lightnings
Marauder Destroyer
Marauder Bomber

Do either of the newer Marauders have the edge over the standard Marauder bomber? (i love the destroyer model enough to get one anyway)
How effective would the earlier suggestion of 2 Vultures instead of a marauder actually be? (or are they something to pick up as time goes on and try it out)
How necessary is a Valkyrie or other transport?

Zanzibarthefirst
09-09-2008, 01:20
I've jsut got my two books the other day and i'm ready to start with my chaos force to tie in with the my 40k army. Given that chaos have very few things shoudl i jsut stick with using my talons and blades or shoudl i add some renegade militia in for when i need ground defenses and transport. I really hope FW expand the chaos range. Three things is not enough. Eldar arent much beeter but at least they ave all the bases covered.

I've alreadt rodered a pack of blades and will probably get the list from the 1st page although i really want a harbringer so am going to have to expand.

Jonik
09-09-2008, 15:16
So, aiming for 120 points:

4 thunderbolts, 2 lightnings

Both plain? or should I get missiles in there somehow...?

Steam_Giant
09-09-2008, 17:10
I've jsut got my two books the other day and i'm ready to start with my chaos force to tie in with the my 40k army. Given that chaos have very few things shoudl i jsut stick with using my talons and blades or shoudl i add some renegade militia in for when i need ground defenses and transport. I really hope FW expand the chaos range. Three things is not enough. Eldar arent much beeter but at least they ave all the bases covered.

I've alreadt rodered a pack of blades and will probably get the list from the 1st page although i really want a harbringer so am going to have to expand.

Definatly for ground support and transport you could use IN, or house rule the harbringer as a massive (invasion size) transport vessal ? 10 -12 Ive found about right.

I dont use IN aircraft in my chaos flight though, as it doesn't feel right.



Do either of the newer Marauders have the edge over the standard Marauder bomber? (i love the destroyer model enough to get one anyway)
How effective would the earlier suggestion of 2 Vultures instead of a marauder actually be? (or are they something to pick up as time goes on and try it out)
How necessary is a Valkyrie or other transport?

No............ :)


To explain; the M.Vigilante is NOT a combat aircraft, its a support aircraft. Perhaps in GIANT games i would consider taking one, but otherwise its purpose is only for one mission in the AI:TA book.

As for the M.Collosus, I would love to hear some feedback from a more knowledgable player.. I think of it as like the "Enola Gay" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enola_Gay) you get one massive bomb to blast your enemies with, assuming you score a hit ! however as your hit chance is dependant on your speed, this seems like a ridiculous waste of points !

Why did FW waste their time with these models when some races are crying out for attention ? /rant

As for the Valkyire and Vulture the load outs in the AI:TA book really make you feel like your flying with "The A-Team" if you know what i mean ;)

P.S. M.Destroyer for the win !


So, aiming for 120 points:

4 thunderbolts, 2 lightnings

Both plain? or should I get missiles in there somehow...?

Do the Lightnings up as Lightning strikes then use them as either, If you feel like putting missiles on the T,bolts do it ! Its not WYSIWYG (in my airspace anyway)

Fantastica
09-09-2008, 19:02
Interesting models (and yes I am actually posting!)

I have 2 Cudas and 2 Thunderbolts that I need to paint up. Then I'll take some pics for this area of the forum. Just need to work out the Bolt scheme. Thinking mottled codex and shadow grey as a type of camo, with dark blue on the nose designating them as navy planes.

that color scheme's pretty close to what I'm doing, Codex Grey With Shadow Grey Drybrushed over it, with Sunburst Yellow on the Nose, Tail, Elevators, and leading edges of the wings.

looks kinds like this:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/YankeeAirMuseum2005/Highlights/Bf109e2oClock.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/YankeeAirMuseum2005/Highlights/index.html&h=706&w=980&sz=46&hl=en&start=1&usg=__e8GDvBI8OB-SML1ydNTKjVWETII=&tbnid=2azzvUUWFOp67M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbf-109%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Monticus
20-09-2008, 20:36
First and foremost some of those lovely Thunderbolts are going to wing their way to me but because of my location and lack of opponents I always build a 2nd army for which ever gaming system I am playing.

This is where a little advice is needed, I'm stuck between Chaos, Eldar and Tau. Is it possiable to use IG aircraft as the lost and the damned (as I am currently trying to scratch build some aircraft to get trial games in)? are these rule covered in Tactica Aeronautica. The other major problem is I live in New zealand so the exchange rate between here and the UK bites at the moment (3 NZ dollars to 1 pound). I want to get this right so as to keep the cost managable before I get completely hooked.

Any advice appreciated.

Monty

Garoth
21-09-2008, 22:34
I do not see any problem with Chaos forces "borrowing" aircraft from either Imperial Navy or Space Marines. When it comes to background it makes perfect sense, there are lots of traitor guard out there, and of course the Traitor Legions and some renegade chapters.

Also the armylists in AI are not that strict. It is for example pretty had to use Space Marines as a stand-alone force, as they do not have any fighters. They are essentially just a ally force for Imperial Navy.

Currently Chaos is lacking ground defenses and transport craft, so some "borrowing" from Imperial lists is needed anyways to make a full force that can accomplish all missions. So while your at it, crab some Lost and the Damned too.

Steam_Giant
22-09-2008, 11:48
First and foremost some of those lovely Thunderbolts are going to wing their way to me but because of my location and lack of opponents I always build a 2nd army for which ever gaming system I am playing.

This is where a little advice is needed, I'm stuck between Chaos, Eldar and Tau. Is it possiable to use IG aircraft as the lost and the damned (as I am currently trying to scratch build some aircraft to get trial games in)? are these rule covered in Tactica Aeronautica. The other major problem is I live in New zealand so the exchange rate between here and the UK bites at the moment (3 NZ dollars to 1 pound). I want to get this right so as to keep the cost managable before I get completely hooked.

Any advice appreciated.

Monty

It seems Thunderbolts are the popular choice for entry into AI, you may find though when finding new players that you never get to play with them :(

Cost does seem like a factor that prevents immigration to AI, but dont forget even a large air force, will never be as Costly as a 40k army ?

For scratchbuild ideas Check this thread out ! (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133693)


Currently Chaos is lacking ground defenses and transport craft, so some "borrowing" from Imperial lists is needed anyways to make a full force that can accomplish all missions. So while your at it, crab some Lost and the Damned too.

Garoth hits the nail on the head in his post. Just to add, that the AI:TA Book (Tactica Aeronautica) does not contain any rules for "Chaos Borrowing" Perhaps this is an area that someone could research for a Firebase SG article ? I imagine that sabre weapon platforms could be more varied, or perhaps keep the IN stat line but offer suitably "Chaos-y" (read=spikey :)) upgrades to the ground defences.

Its definatly a question that gets asked alot in this section of the forum. It prolly merits its own thread ?

Garoth
23-09-2008, 09:58
One way to cut down the cost of AI for those that are not good in scratchbuilding is to use the metal aircraft models from Epic Armageddon. They are quite a bit smaller and to not look as good, and not all of the wariants exist in that range, but on the other hand you can get four T-bolts for 12 or pair of Marauders for 8 and so on.

Personally I like the overall look and the level of detail in Forgeworld models enough to buy those instead of any cheaper alternatives.

imperium
01-10-2008, 20:49
Quick, stupid question: What is AI?

Darnok
01-10-2008, 21:03
Quick, stupid question: What is AI?

Quick, stupid answer: ever thought about what could be a cool abbreviation for "Aeronautica Imperialis"? Google it. ;)

imperium
02-10-2008, 20:51
Dammit! I was trying to be lazy...

Actually I did Google it and it looks pretty cool. Now I just need to convert my local gaming club!

LordWhiteWolf
14-11-2008, 04:00
this game is awsome. Im gonna buy a couple of ships and play a few games. It would be great if somone made some nice proxies for ground targets and AA guns

RCgothic
19-11-2008, 12:51
To explain; the M.Vigilante is NOT a combat aircraft, its a support aircraft. Perhaps in GIANT games i would consider taking one, but otherwise its purpose is only for one mission in the AI:TA book.

Surely 12pts is a small price to pay for being able to re-roll your initiative roll every turn?

Steam_Giant
19-11-2008, 17:26
Surely 12pts is a small price to pay for being able to re-roll your initiative roll every turn?

Thats an interesting point, The M.Vigilante also allows players to reroll failed reserve tests.

What id be interested in knowing is how players value the initiative, It seems to me that "owning" the movement phase generally means your opponant making his important moves first, so you can respond. (hence the grot bomb spam technique). Therefore winning the initiative could work against a player who is outnumbered a' la IN.

Obviously firing first is an advantage, but is it more crucial than moving last?

Generally the focus of my own games of AI have revolved around maneuvering into the best position to shoot, and so shooting first is not a priority to me. Personally Id rather spend those twelve points on other things, like a double ace t'bolt pilot, some ground defences or some cheap arvus lighters to spam the movement phase (only in a troop deployment mission of course :chrome:)

How do you value the initiative? Have you used either of the M.varients in game yet?

Garoth
19-11-2008, 19:47
Vigilante initiative re-roll can also be used to try losing initiative, if that works out better for the current situation. So it seems give quite a bit of flexibility for those 12 points.

I haven't tried one out thought.

RCgothic
19-11-2008, 20:51
The vigilant allows:
Re-rolled initiative (to fail or pass)
Re-rolled reserve rolls.
6-turn recon missions.

For 12 pts (1/2 a Thunderbolt) I'd call that a bargain and I'm including one in the 400pt campaign list I'm working towards.

Steam_Giant
19-11-2008, 23:18
Vigilante initiative re-roll can also be used to try losing initiative, if that works out better for the current situation. So it seems give quite a bit of flexibility for those 12 points.

I haven't tried one out thought.

I dont think im in any hurry to test one out, but il admit the flexibility for the points is good. But in answer to the original question of comparing the Vanilla M bomber with the two varients from TA:AI I stick with my original recommendation.


For 12 pts (1/2 a Thunderbolt) I'd call that a bargain and I'm including one in the 400pt campaign list I'm working towards.

If i asked very nicely would you consider posting up your WIP list ? :)

RCgothic
20-11-2008, 09:45
Well, as you asked nicely:D:
Fighters: (238pts)
5 Thunderbolts, additional weapons
1 Thunderbolt, additional weapons, ace, ejector seat
3 Lightnings, additional weapons
1 Lightning, additional weapons, ace, ejector seat
Bombers: (78pts)
3 Marauders
1 Marauder Destroyer, additional weapons.
Support: (84pts)
3 Heavy Flak Cannons
2 Valkyries, additional weapons
1 Marauder Vigilant

Steam_Giant
20-11-2008, 19:19
Seems like a good list. Although with only max 4 transport, I imagined you have balanced it for bombing missions more than Troop landing or have i missed something? Also i see your favouring the Hydras for ground defence, I have used the sabre platforms against a bombing mission with no success and a heavy flak gun in a small fight which achieved a fear factor I hadn't originally thought of.

RCgothic
20-11-2008, 20:37
I'd ignore sabre platforms personally. They're very cheap but won't stop a bombing run, and are only good against strafing runs in very large numbers. It was a toss up between hydras and heavy flak when I posted the list, but I've thought about it and I'd rather have heavy flak.
Hydras are 1/2 chance per turn at short range.
HFlak is 5/12th chance at long range, but possibility of extra damage, and is 3 altitude better.

As for the valkyries, I would like more. Are 3 Marauders and a Destroyer overkill at 400points? I could just about scrounge two more if I dropped the ejector seats on the aces and the additional weapons on the original two valkyries.

Steam_Giant
22-11-2008, 11:41
I dont know if three marauders would be over-kill except regarding the bombing to landing ratio ? I think you could easily regret not taking the ejector seats ! Heres an idea though, maybe drop one marauder and change the two lightnings to strike varients so you still have massive air to ground firepower then load up on some arvus lighters for cheap mass transport ?

RCgothic
22-11-2008, 12:46
Hmm, adding things up I'm missing 9 points. Dropping a marauder gives me 25 points to play with. After adding a 3rd valkyrie, I'd ace the marauder destroyer and give it an ejector seat. 5 points left. Double Aced both fighter leaders and dropped the ejector seats because they bail out on 2+ anyway.

Updated list:

Red Squadron, 156pts
Red Leader: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons, Double Ace
Red 2: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons
Red 3: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons
Red 4: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons
Red 5: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons
Red 6: Thunderbolt, Additional Weapons

Blue Squadron, 90pts
Blue Leader: Lightning, Additional Weapons, Double Ace
Blue 2: Lightning, Additional Weapons
Blue 3: Lightning, Additional Weapons
Blue 4: Lightning, Additional Weapons

Gold Squadron, 82pts
Gold Leader: Marauder Destroyer, Additional Weapons, Ace, Ejector Seat
Gold 2: Marauder Bomber
Gold 3: Marauder Bomber
Gold 4: Marauder Vigilant

Support, 72pts
Green 1: Valkyrie, Additional Weapons
Green 2: Valkyrie, Additional Weapons
Green 3: Valkyrie, Additional Weapons
104th AA Defence Battery: 3x Heavy Flak Cannons
Total: 400pts.

I'd like to see someone try and catch a double ace lightning pilot! Am not convinced about the double aces though. Would maybe have been better to spread the love around a bit and let the single aces reach double ace by themselves.

Havock
22-11-2008, 12:46
Sabres with stubbers really feel like the A-team is there to save the day. Or at least makes the attempt to.

RCgothic
22-11-2008, 13:44
yup, it's the 'attempts to but doesn't' that puts me off.

Steam_Giant
22-11-2008, 14:16
Nothing like shaking a handful of dice to put the willies up your opponant though ! Any idea which force(s) you will be battling ? We might be able to fine tune your list better that way, and it would be fun to speculate on the opposing force. :)

RCgothic
22-11-2008, 15:42
My main opponent is tau. General tactic will be to loose a sustained burst of skystrikes at long range, combined with lascannons to see if I can even the odds a bit before the baracudas close.

Once into a general dogfight I'll not be afraid of using sustained fire if I've got an enemy on the same level. I'll use my aces to get into tailing positions and then use advanced tailing as much as possible.

I know my opponent has a manta, but I haven't come up against it yet. Any ideas of how to take on the beast?

Steam_Giant
24-11-2008, 08:56
I know my opponent has a manta, but I haven't come up against it yet. Any ideas of how to take on the beast?

In theory, stay well back and watch out for seeker missles. Equip all your fighters with skystrikes and possibly switch one of your flak guns for a manticore.

Perhaps a regular Tau opponant will be able to provide more insight :)

Ironmonger
25-11-2008, 21:31
I've HEARD that the Manta is almost-if not-impossible to bring down, so I just don't know. Lightnings with Skystrikes is what I've heard, and lots of 'em. Tell us if you were able to;)

toxic_wisdom
02-03-2009, 03:17
"...With a Nightwing for 28 and a Phoenix for 30 points it still adds up to 172. But any help and corrections is appreciated..."

Phoenix now at 32 ( includes all weapon variants )

LegendFX
12-03-2009, 23:38
Just a quick question.

Ill be starting a small imperial airforce soon, and was wondering a few things.

I'm planning on keeping to the list that was set here. But I really would like to know which of the lightning variants would be the ones hinted at. Also, what could I get to expand that force to a 250+ point airforce.

I cant point out how new I am at this, so I was hoping someone could give me a quick laydown on the usage of the diffrent types of planes for the Imperials. Ive been reading a lot about fighter/bombers, but I have no clue what those would be. Also that you dont need 2 bombers to begin with, and that an expantion of your fighter wing might be a good idea in stead of that bomber.

Hopefully, some of you can help a fellow airforce enthousiast out.

marv335
13-03-2009, 00:27
Avoid the ground attack lightning variant.
you want to be able to disengage when you run out of ammo, and having hellstrikes you can't fire due to having no ground targets will just give away victory points

Havock
14-03-2009, 02:03
Well we usually play that if there are no elligible targets for a weapon, it doesn't matter either. Fairly obvious actually.

LegendFX
15-03-2009, 20:59
Ok, small starter force. Just air VS air with a mate of mine. So I've started out with:

4 thunderbolts
4 Lightnings ( the normal ones )
1 marauder destroyer. Might not be THAT usefull, but I just love the model.

fattdex
02-04-2009, 15:26
Marauder Destroyers own hard!

Splosh
24-04-2009, 14:07
great startup guide, i've ordered 4 thunderbolts, 2 lightnings and a marauder destroyer aswell as the books, i was wondering if anyone had any painting tips for the imperial navy. Detailed paint guides with pics would be awesome, can't seem to find any around the net for AI. I really like the way they've done the thunderbolt/lightning over here http://aerowiki.wikidot.com/imperial, very simple and clean looking just seems like a shadow grey base and then a codex greay edge highlight unless there are addtional steps i'm missing....

Splosh
24-04-2009, 16:19
anyone know of any paint guides for the imperial navy at all?

Zanzibarthefirst
26-04-2009, 12:03
Just for the heads up, I've started a project log for Aeronautica I hope that you'll check out. the plan is to start with Chaos and then provide sample forces for other armies just so people can get an idea of what these kind of forces look like.

abhorsen950
10-07-2009, 18:59
Ive been looks at AI after the amazing gaming table which won an award in WD 355
maybe ill look into it
im getting INQ stuff sorted first


ABH

Zanzibarthefirst
24-07-2009, 08:13
I say go for it, as the OP said, it is a considerably cheap and easy game to get into. My chaos fleet has taken a break atm but hopefully i get get my next batch of hell blades painted up in no time once i've painted the models im working on at the moment.

campbell5824
05-09-2009, 13:49
im currently scribling away at a campaign list. im normally a tau player but i fancy collecting another race. ive decided on going for the good old imperial navy. but my question is do you think its a good idea just going for fighters and having no bombers. my idea was having loads of thunderbolts for fighters and then having vultures and valkyies for my ground work. i like the idea screems out "strike force" to me, and while the list could be very mobile it wont be the fastest.
what do you guys think??

Havock
05-09-2009, 20:42
Should work alright, thunderbolts can make a decent dent in strafing rounds, IN does have the most versatile fighters.

SanguinaryDan
13-09-2009, 15:56
You could speed it up a bit by using Lightning Strikes in support of Aquila Landers. That way everyone is speedy and orbit capable.

daa6
16-11-2009, 06:30
Hello......hellooo.........hheeelllooo.....

(just been a while since the last post)

Looking at buying the rule book, but have a lack of opponants..... and cash.

But have a large Eldar 40k army and sizable Imperium... "I" force.

What are the Eldar like.... fast i would expect... low in numbers goes with the race..... but what else??

Armour?

Short / Medium / Long Range ?

Skill to play.... as in each "plane" has its own role or can they multi task?


"also Love the ThunderBlot Model" ...... (looking at the full sized one but thats another matter) ;) :D

Thanks for any reply and advice....

Cal585
16-11-2009, 06:56
Hey daa,
I too am like you with no regular opponents and having to collect 2 airforces. Except I'm Imperial Navy and Tau. IN seems to be pretty popular as a standard sort of choice.
Just looking at the main rulebook (don't have Tactica Aeronautica), Eldar have 4 types of aircraft but really the Phoenix is pretty much the same as the Nightwing (though the Phoenix is slower but has ground attack weapons) and the difference between the Vampire Raider and Hunter is that the Raider can transport troops while the Hunter has the extra ground attack weapon.
Eldar are the most expensive of all the aircraft, about half as much again as their Imperial counter-parts. But as might be expected, they are some of the best stats. They're all very manoeuvrable and get inbuilt holo saves against all damage recieved. But they'll ALWAYS be outnumbered by their opponent and so need to utilise these abilities to split their opponents.
Their guns seem to be more designed for close range, putting out a decent amount of firepower in that bracket, though they aren't so good at long range.

The Thunderbolt on the other hand, is pretty much your average fighter plane. Durable and with decent firepower, particularly with Autocannons in mid-range and Lascannons for long if needed, they're a pretty all-round aircraft, probably like Space Marines of 40k. They can be upgraded with Skystrikes for extra long range punch if you wish.

daa6
18-11-2009, 03:14
Thanks for the quick reply Cal585. :D

I guess this is more Dog fight based? So Long range is not really a thing..?

the holo Sv must be a pain...? Though with my dice roles not so much.. ;)

Do models have a damage chart or wounds...... or is it you fail "Sv" you going down....... "boom".


My main opponant in 40K plays orks.... "seriously outnumbers I would guess" though he doe now have Guard...

No Necrons then ? ..... "say no, say no" :eek: as with BFG they would cost even more than Eldar i would guess, and be worse...

Thanks again.

daa6
18-11-2009, 03:18
Would you say they need to get into the danger zone to take out enemies?

lol :D "sorry sound track moment" :D

or do the Phoenix and Vampire's have longer range / more punch?

Thanks again...

Cal585
18-11-2009, 05:45
Well long range is 12-18" (Short is 0-6" and Med is 6-12"). The main benefit of long range is getting shots while closing or chasing other planes. It basically allows you to get in the fight quicker, as well as having the potential to deal damage from a distance that they can't return at. I also missed that the Vampire Raider and Hunter have slightly different weapons (Pulse laser and Pulsars). These are the only long range weapons in the Eldar fleet (don't know about Tactica Aeronautica). Generally long range only gives off 1-2 shots a turn.

The holo save is definitely a nice addition that will save you, but it's nothing to rely on. All I can say without telling the rules is that it's less than half a chance of saving the hit. The Thunderbolt also has a similar rule for its last hit.

Fighters have a number of hits, standard being two (for both Eldar and Navy). Every time you hit, you roll for damage (a specific value for a weapon that is always the same). If you inflict a damge point, they roll their save and if failed their hits go down by 1 (if 0 they crash/explode/fall apart).

Orks are cheap and numerous. They put out a heap of firepower at short range, but they need to make high rolls to actually do anything with it. Their planes are also a little worse (altitude/thrust/min speed) but they do get access to Grot Bombs, a fun and cheap way of spamming the skies and controlling movement.

Necrons unfortunately are not in the game. They're the race my mate plays and hence why he hasn't been interested in joining. Many feel that there's no real need for an atmospheric Necron force once you have the ground troops and the spacecraft, seeing as monoliths and pylons seem to be capable of deadly AA fire. If they were in the game, I think they'd be tough but expensive.

The Phoenix is a ground attack fighter so I'd stick with Nightwings for dogfights at the moment and then look into Phoenix's when you come to play some missions with ground targets. The two Vampire's are classified as bombers, so aren't recommended for initial dogfights. They're a lot more resilient and have the longest range in the Eldar airforce. The Raider seems the most useful in a dogfighting role, having all air-to-air weapons and giving you some transport if you want to try those missions. Combined with some Pheonix for ground attacks would be slightly more than the first post but gives you a good list. The Hunter is your dedicated bomber, though it shares the same ground weapon as the Phoenix. Differences are just the resilience. But I'd go with the Phoenix to begin.

Hopefully that helps somewhat? Feel free to ask if I'm too unclear on something.

daa6
19-11-2009, 03:16
Thanks Cal585,

Sound cool. deffo looking for the book, "seen it on a bidding web site...."
so finger crossed.... ;)

Then its the moddels.

I bought 2 of the Thunderbolts ages ago, (couldnt aford the full size one) :cries:

Sounds like a good game though.... different but good.

Also sounds like they have the race's down well. what are the tau Like?

they look popular, mid / long range?

My friend who plays the orks might give it a go... (does roll un-naturally high tho) so actual damage may not be his problem..:)

So the Nightwing have short/mid then.... and the Bolt same with extras... "even"

Thanks again

daa6
19-11-2009, 03:17
Nice info. Thanks

daa6
19-11-2009, 03:18
Can see you point about the Necrons to! didn't think about that...

Cal585
19-11-2009, 03:42
Happy to help.

The Tau are fairly well rounded as well, with the Barracuda almost a direct match for the Thunderbolt. More close range (though their shots don't vary as much as some other races) as opposed to the Thunderbolt's mid/long. Hence why I went with those two races (besides the fact that I collect their 40k armies), they're fairly balanced for beginners.

The Nightwing is definitely short range, putting out twice as many shots at short than mid (though still capable of damage at mid). The Thundebolt's autocannons are reversed, putting out almost twice as much at mid than short, but they have the Lascannons for the long range shot as well.

Let us know how you get on.

daa6
19-11-2009, 05:26
Does make sence i surpose, for the wing to do well at close, although doesn't the Nightwing have Brightlances - 2 x single / twin linked?

Auto Cannons would hurt though :eek: And again can see the point in mid range heavy shooting, as they would be "high Cal shots"

Tau pritty heavy hitters then?


how do the balance? Lighter armour? / slower? / Mid, Mid or Long? :D

As they run a solid gun line effect in 40K... with a bit of hide and seek...

Thanks again for the info and insight Cal585.

Appreciated.

Havock
19-11-2009, 17:50
Tau are allround, like the imperium, but a bit better at defensive games and ground attack.
I'd rate the barracuda slighly worse than the thunderbolt in a 1-1 matchup but it's not much, and the 'Cuda does have those nice "turrets".

The choice between imperial navy and tau is really more about the visual part, there's not that much difference in playing style.

As for necrons:
I don't really think you can put them in this game and do them justice. Nobody wants a fleet consisting of one "uberfighter, nor does anyone want something along the lines of the BFG rules. AI is quick and messy, not "LOL, I haz a 2+ save if I sacrifice some firepower".
And I don't think a "We'll be back"-save is appropriate when you are a smear on a mountaintop.

Same goes for 'nids: I can't really see flapping wings propel you to hundreds of miles an our. And an fleet list consisting of several blobs of floating spore mines doesn't sound game to me.

Sclep
19-11-2009, 19:23
On nids: they dooo have space ships...I can easily imagine an organic jet propulsion system and bio acid and spine projectiles.

Cal585
20-11-2009, 01:24
@Sclep - I agree, mainly with bio-acid. I don't know how effective spine projectiles could be. I think what would be cool with Nids would be to give them the option of spores in a similar style to Grot Bombs, only much more restricted, so they're essentially aerial mines that can move a little. That way they'd be a fun extra but not the main-stay of the Nid list.
I think Necrons could work with a bit of effort. If they didn't have pilots, they could work as a 'smart plane' race, which is controlled by a machine spirit. That would allow them some manoeuvrability, only having to worry about airframe stresses which would be well compensated for by the improved metal, but at the same time they'd be restricted by the lack of pilot's instinct. A similar save to the Eldar's holofield reflecting Living Metal but maybe some drawbacks in other areas like thrust, speed or weapons. Give them a Lightning Arc that's an aerial equivalent of a Railgun (though maybe lower damage a bit...) and a high points cost and they could be feasible.
But anyway, I digress. I'd much prefer to see existing factions bulked out first (eg. at least a Chaos transport model).

@daa6 - The Brightlance is a short range equivalent ot the Lascannon.
Havock has pretty much summed up the Tau. Though Navy have a bit more choice with the Lightning and Valkyrie/Vulture (though they seem inferior), whereas Tau will be relying on the Cuda with the odd Tiger Shark for heavy support (I'll ignore the Manta for now), which is roughly equivalent to the Marauder. Nothing beats the Imperial Navy for variety, but they're the generalists in game play.

Edonil
20-11-2009, 03:29
Necrons would be interesting. I'd actually make them have a low pilot skill, to be honest- to reflect the fact that this is a machine, and not a person. Talent has a lot to do with effective pilots, and, even for the Necrons, I don't see a computer being able to keep up with a human brain. Perhaps a 5+ for the skill? And reflect the Living Metal in just a higher number of hits, rather than a new rule.

SanguinaryDan
20-11-2009, 14:16
@Edonil: Surely you jest? The Necron computers are millions of years advanced over anything we've even considered. Think about Chess playing supercomputers and then multiply that by a bazillion.

@Cal585: Venom Cannon would make an excellent anti-air weapon. Fragments plus electrical overloads should be a really effective weapon against any type of a/c. So I could definitely see an afterburning turbo-flatulence powered biofighter in AI.:D

Havock
20-11-2009, 23:57
On nids: they dooo have space ships...I can easily imagine an organic jet propulsion system and bio acid and spine projectiles.

It would be a case of retconning stuff in. I don't like that, fluffwise the 'nids simply choke the airspace withspore mines and corrosive gasses.

The problem with organic jet propulsion is that it requires HUGE amounts of energy. As in: bleed smething dry in minutes.

Nah, best not to plotdevice them in like that :)

Edonil
21-11-2009, 03:12
@Edonil: Surely you jest? The Necron computers are millions of years advanced over anything we've even considered. Think about Chess playing supercomputers and then multiply that by a bazillion.

Granted, they certainly are more advanced, but consider that to do the simplest process of the brain- eyesight- it would take supercomputers 50 years to do what the eye can do in one heartbeat (I think I'm remembering that right). Perhaps my suggestion was to make them worse than they should be, but I still feel that they shouldn't be the equivalent of a living pilot.

Steam_Giant
21-11-2009, 13:42
This is an interesting debate, 'humans over computers'. Since humans are prone to random behaviour they clinch it for me. Computers can only behave as programmed.

To represent this "in game" i wouldn't allow Necron pilots to perform the "power dive" maneuvers. To show they are unable to accept the random D3 result.

As for pilot skill, I'd make them same as humans.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
28-11-2009, 22:26
do necrons even have planes??? they dont have ordnance in bfg and on the ground they just use monliths and regular troops. i think they would be good to base a ground attack scenario around though.
on the point of skill i agree with steam_giant, the random element and instinct isnt something a computer can accurately imitate, imo.

campbell5824
29-11-2009, 10:19
i think a good necron force would be some thing like battlestar galatica, were theyve created there own fighter.

marv335
29-11-2009, 11:24
Speaking as a Aerospace Engineer, Necrons should have a higher pilot skill if anything.
The only thing holding back modern combat aircraft is the puny meatbag in the cockpit.
They can't take the g-forces, need environmental conditioning, escape systems, etc.
take out the pilot, the capability of the aircraft increases by an order of magnitude.

Havock
30-11-2009, 00:30
On the other hand, if you posess anti-grav technology, G forces might not be a problem.
Then again, computers tend to be faster than we are. Not that necrons are, or should be, they are enough of a 'mary sue' as it is.

daa6
30-11-2009, 04:40
Hi Cal585 and everyone....

Got the Rule book at long last.

Have some questions though....

Eldar :

does the Save give a great help?

they dont seem that well armed..... also incorrectly armed in the case of the Phoenix.....

EVEN in its description and pic, it says/shows it has missiles / shuriken cannons and.... Pulse laser !!! NOT Bright lances....!

(guess game balancing?)

Also how much fire power do the Tau want ? ;) and enough covering fire....?

guess theyre hard to tail...?

Grot bombs look fun...

wickedvoodoo
12-01-2010, 22:56
Hi Cal585 and everyone....

Got the Rule book at long last.

Have some questions though....

Eldar :

does the Save give a great help?

they dont seem that well armed..... also incorrectly armed in the case of the Phoenix.....

EVEN in its description and pic, it says/shows it has missiles / shuriken cannons and.... Pulse laser !!! NOT Bright lances....!

(guess game balancing?)

Also how much fire power do the Tau want ? and enough covering fire....?

guess theyre hard to tail...?

Grot bombs look fun...




1) The save helps a great deal. When you are looking at a game mechanic where the shooting only hits on 5's and 6's then a 1/3 chance save is massive.

2) I admit the nightwings weapons look weak on paper. However it is the ultimate dogfighter and will get more chances to pick the right shot than other planes. In my experience it is armed well enough. However if you are looking at bombers then they are very well armed. Forward firing missiles that have the option to fire at medium and have lots of ammo. These are awesome. The heavier guns carried by the vampire variants are both sick.

3) The pheonix in the main IA book is incorrectly armed. In tactica aeronautica this is addressed. There are two more weapon varients, the wysiwyg version for the model and also a starcannons varient. However be warned the wysiwyg pheonix is more ground attack orientated than than the brightlance version is. I think that the missiles are enough and that the brightlance or the star cannon versions are more competative.

4) The tau do have lots of fire power but as far as i can tell (only have a little experience against tau!) they need it. They are slow and unmaneuverable compared to the other races.

5) Grot bombs do look fun. However they seem to take quite a degree of precision maneuvering and also a little luck to work well. I think (and my regular ork opponent seems to agree) that the normal bombloads are better overall.

potterz
22-01-2010, 16:41
ill second most of that mart. for the nightwing its the maneuverability that does my nut in.9s n 10s grrrrrrr:cries:!!!!!!!!!!!

Cal585
23-01-2010, 12:54
Sorry, somehow missed that originally. As a Tau player, I have to somewhat oppose point 4. Tau are fairly maneouvrable. While not top tier, they're quite adequate and can keep up with most races easily. The firepower leaves a bit to be desired though. The drones in particular put out a heap of shots but have a tiny range and struggle to wound anything. The Ion Cannon is the useful weapon and equivalent to the Navy's weaponry.

Havock
24-01-2010, 04:44
They are fairly equal to the imperial navy in most aspects, including speed/man.
Their fighters are less of a beatstick and more of a 'swiss army knife' though.

Aurellis
03-02-2010, 22:01
I'm looking to get involved in AI with Tau and i've developed an idea about what i'd like to get in my first purchase. I'm just wondering whether it would be better to get normal Tiger Sharks or Tiger Shark AX-1-0's. I have a 40k scale AX-1-0 so i'm tempted to get one of those.

Here is what I was thinking of based from the setup in the first post:
6 Barracudas
2 Tiger Sharks (AX-1-0?)
3 Sky Rays

SanguinaryDan
04-02-2010, 00:07
Why not one of each? They have slightly different rolls, and taking two AX-1-0 would leave you without any transport capacity. Not good if the scenario calls for picking up or dropping off.

Cal585
04-02-2010, 02:43
@Sanguinary Dan - They come in packs of 2...

Aurellis - While the AX-1-0 does look a lot cooler, it is the Tau specialist ground attack plane. If you're just starting, I'd go with normal Tiger Sharks. The Railguns of the AX-1-0 work only against ground targets (as do the optional Seeker Missiles), while the standard Tiger Shark replaces them with an Ion Cannon, the primary Tau air weapon, making it a lot more effective in dogfights. Just as importantly, it has transport capacity. Other weapons can be used for strafing runs (and you can purchase ground attack Seekers for your Cudas), but you'll need a standard Tiger Shark or Orca to be able to play troop insertion/evactuation missions.
Hope that helps.

Aurellis
04-02-2010, 10:55
Thanks for the advice Cal585 and Sanguinary Dan. I think I shall get the standard Tiger Shark aircraft.

Following on from this can anyone tell me the effectiveness of the Tiger Shark AX-2-2? It looks quite interesting with 2 stealth drone fighter escorts.

I'm hoping to order the Rulebook, Tactica book and my Tau Air Cadre soon so I would just like to make sure. Army Builder has been very useful so far in understanding the units before I get hold of the book.

fluffy05
19-02-2010, 14:35
Is AI played in a similar way to Wings of War?

Darnok
19-02-2010, 16:51
Is AI played in a similar way to Wings of War?

Short answer: no.

If you really want, you can use AI-models to play WoW. But I would advise you to play AI. :D

Aurellis
22-02-2010, 20:23
My Tau has arrived and i'll be putting my cadre together soon once I get them off my brother (delivered to his place). I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in now, i'll post some pictures up of my starter force once I get them sorted out.

TopherPlus
01-03-2010, 23:19
Going to order my fleet today/tomorrow.

Imperials all the way!

Was thinking 4 tbolts, 4 lightning attack fighters and 1 marauder, but wondered whether i should switch out 2 lightning attacks for 2 lightning strikes. I guess i could use the strikes as counts as attacks for dogfight missions, but it'd give me some flexibility to use some more ground attack units in appropriate missions.

4 Tbolts
2 Lightning Attack
2 Lightning Strike
1 Marauder

Thoughts/suggestions?

Aurellis
05-03-2010, 15:48
I like the initial list, what did you choose in the end? Also, which Marauder did you get?

I'd think about getting something with a transport option in the future though, maybe some Valkyries for the versatility.

I've just got my air cadre together and it's been basecoated now.

All I have to do is, finally, make up my mind on a colour scheme :)

Captain Xavier
04-04-2010, 20:22
Heya guys, new boy on the block....
Currently im looking into AI and im stuck between 2 races. Orks and Imperials.

Reading through this thread i like the sound of both of the "intro" forces posted on page one, but i would just like someone to "guide" me through each force.

Which is better at what? and what weaknesses do each faction have?

Cheers
Cpt X

Caine-HoA
04-04-2010, 21:16
Orks are stong at close range but can have a hard time coming there because the have low maneuverbility. I really like their model design i even thought about getting them even though im not a big ork-fan at general. They have pretty cheap planes, so its likely that u have more planes than your enemy what is a big advantage in AI.

Imperials "as always" are more or less allrounders, they have by far the most models/planes in the game i guess thats their big advantage.

CheesyRobMan
04-04-2010, 21:19
Ork planes are cheaper (more models to paint!) and throw out lots of shots, but they're not quite as good as Imperials 1 vs 1. Of course, being Orks, 1 vs 1 is an alien concept and numbers count in their favour :)

Havock
04-04-2010, 21:28
They are not -that- cheap though, you'll outnumber an IN opponent 3-2 or something. Chaos is really horde-y.

- Deathwing -
30-04-2010, 09:44
I got a question regarding the recommended aircraft for starters.


IMPERIUM

* 4 Thunderbolts
* 2 Lightnings
* 1 Marauder Bomber
* 1 Marauder Destroyer

150 points / 58

CHAOS

* 6 Hell Blades
* 4 Hell Talons

168 points / 48

Still good choices? I mean after Tactica Aeronautica was released.

And about the Lightnings: Which ones to buy? The normal lightning, or the Strike variant?

Havock
30-04-2010, 13:59
Yes.

Normal Lightning.

n43digi
30-04-2010, 15:13
I agree with Hoavok, the Normal Lightings

Deception
01-07-2010, 06:06
Hey guys, I've just got into AI. Recently ordered the books and some imperial and chaos planes, but when i get some more money i will also collect tau as well.

CheesyRobMan
01-07-2010, 08:37
Welcome! AI's a really fun game. Have you had the chance to play at all yet?

Deception
01-07-2010, 17:25
i havnt, as nobody at my club plays it, and my order hasnt came in yet. but i plan to change all that when my order comes in.

IAMNOTHERE
21-07-2010, 21:04
We're just starting to get into it in Salisbury, one of the guys has been bringing stuff for a few weeks. Turns out there were a couple of closet flyboys in the room and now there's 4 of us.

Should get a few games in over the next month or so :)

cornonthecob
23-07-2010, 15:06
Is there anywhere to find a flavour of the rules , something like a quickstart set.

Zaeon
25-07-2010, 19:17
I don't think so, some guys at the local store play this and I've used some epic eldar fliers for it. Lot of fun, I think I'm going to build some ork planes for it

Exitas-Acta-Probat
21-09-2010, 21:05
i was wondering, as there are so many different weapon options for the vulture - what about the combitnations that arnt covered? like aoutocannons and autocannons, or hellstrikes and hellstrikes? its perfectly feasable that they would be given such loads so would you object to your opponant doing this?
also, has anyone considered rules for the punisher cannon?

ForceM1782
03-02-2011, 21:29
They probably just do not want them to take double autocannons because it would make them too strong against aircraft. Vultures and Valkyries are designed as light ground attack aircraft, respectively as transports. Making them too powerful againat aircraft with dual autocannons would make them fulfill a role they are not intended to.
Dual hellstrikes is nearly what a Marauder destroyer has, perhaps they dont want it to have such heavy specialised weaponry (more than a Lightning Strike).
Attack helicopters should not dominate the skies against interceptors, that is probably the reason behind the autocannon options in any case!

Havock
06-02-2011, 12:19
They probably just do not want them to take double autocannons because it would make them too strong against aircraft. Vultures and Valkyries are designed as light ground attack aircraft, respectively as transports. Making them too powerful againat aircraft with dual autocannons would make them fulfill a role they are not intended to.
Dual hellstrikes is nearly what a Marauder destroyer has, perhaps they dont want it to have such heavy specialised weaponry (more than a Lightning Strike).
Attack helicopters should not dominate the skies against interceptors, that is probably the reason behind the autocannon options in any case!

They wouldn't even with double autocannons, their speed and combat ceiling takes care of that. My Valks have occasionally bothered fighters who challenge them in their home turf (IE, low in some canyon-y surroundings) but up in the air they are slow moving bullseyes. If you park your plane in front of one you deserve what is about to happen :p

ForceM1782
06-02-2011, 22:41
Well ok but I can imagine that this was the idea behind the weapons choices.

I also gave a question about the Vulture in Tactica Aeronautica. Does it replace the one from the original rules book because it is not a weapons variant and its main weapon is now ground attack. Cant find anything on it in the FAQ.

Sorry if this is off topic too but where could I ask...
If You want I post my starting Eldar Force tomorrow XD

Havock
07-02-2011, 13:05
No, it is 'extra'.
FAIK the only thing that is replaced is points cost for relevant aircraft.

ForceM1782
07-02-2011, 22:46
Okay but why would anybody want buy the same aircraft with the same weapon, only with ground attack for the same cost? And why isn't it a "weapons variant".
That is why I had the question in the first place.

axabrax
13-04-2011, 01:20
Anyone know if the Base Markers that used to be on Aerowiki are still available somplace or have them? The links there are all broken.

I'm talking about these:

http://aerowiki.wikidot.com/base-markers

Thanks

AX

CheesyRobMan
13-04-2011, 08:01
Just had a look and the Imperial, Tau, Chaos and Ork links are broken, but the Ork Aces and Death Skulls ones still work, as well as the Eldar ones too.

Edit - it appears I downloaded the others at some point, so I have the RAR files if anyone wants them - PM me.

axabrax
15-04-2011, 15:11
Hey Rob. I PMd you. Can you email me those .rars? Thanks

AX

blackphoenix
17-04-2011, 15:55
So if I was only investing in Imperial and Chaos are they a good mix between the two of them? I'm mostly looking for something my son and I can play, so don't need more than than two races.

Roguebaron
12-05-2011, 03:10
That works well, it's what I started with, I've since added orks as well for a bit of variety to my games, that and I really liked the big ork bombers.

WookieJedi
04-06-2011, 13:21
Ive just started this along with a few friends from our club. I have jumped in with a chaos fleet of 2 hell tallons, 3 hell blades and a Harbinger. This is just to get me started and having all the models in the range was a must.

Any thoughts on what to increase the the fleet with??
Thanks

Roguebaron
04-06-2011, 17:41
More hellblades, at least 6 more, and 2 more talons should do it for you.

Noobie2k7
20-01-2012, 19:01
Hey, recently got the first book, can;t really get tactica atm. Is it really that important though? I'm more than likely going to collect 2 forces. Definitely Tau and maybe Eldar as they seem the most different, plus it means i don;t have to spend as much on models for a second force :P

What i mainly want to know is how useful really is the manta as everyone seems to have avoided talking about it up till now. And i mean if i'm going to go tau then i'd have to have one. Not likely i'm going to able to afford the 40K one now is it lol. Also, what are the Tiger shark AX 2-2's like? I don;t have access to the tactica aeronautica book so i cannot check stats.

Another thing that does bug me about the manta is it doesn't have unlimited ammo on its burst cannons. The marauder destroyer has on it;s turret and the harbinger does on its autocannons so why does the Manta which is probly the biggest craft in AI not have unlimited ammo for it's teeny little burst cannons?

Darnok
21-01-2012, 07:54
Hey, recently got the first book, can;t really get tactica atm. Is it really that important though?

"Tactica" provides you with a selection of upgrades and more flyers for all the factions, plus it gives more scenarios and a run-through of a campaign. It is far from essential, but I found it to be well worth my money.

Noobie2k7
21-01-2012, 09:07
Well i found a copy of Aeronautica in my local hobby store. Had no idea what it was but i saw it was from FW so i had to have it :P Read through the book and it seemed like a really fun game. I'll pick up the tactica book when i get my first few models.

Do you think Eldar and Tau would be fun to fight against eachother? I want two forces very different from eachother and it seemed those were the ones to go for.

Darnok
22-01-2012, 09:34
They are both viable - as are the other factions. AI is pretty balanced, especially with the tweaks to some stats given in "Tactica".

Tau are solid allrounders, comparable to the Imperial Navy, Both of these have quite extensive ranges, unlike other factions. Eldar are what they are: elite specialists, extremely good at what they do, but very few. If you like these concepts, you'll have fun.

Orks and Chaos - just to name the rest - are both "horde" style. A good amount of cannon fodder and some specialists inbetween. Sadly the Chaos range is pretty limited.

Noobie2k7
26-01-2012, 02:50
I showed my friends the books after i managed to get myself a copy of Tactica along with some tau bits and he went and ordered himself some Ork bits as he really loved the idea. So we've had a couple of small skirmishes just to learn the rules and we really enjoy it. Yay for AI. Plus it;s a lot cheaper to play and collect than 40K or fantasy so that;s another reason we like it as it's a completely different pace. I lost my first game cause i didn't realise exactly how many bullets those orky junkers can put out when they get up in your face.

Harkon Greywolf
17-02-2012, 13:50
Not sure on the "protocol" for this, but there was a site/player once that had alternative Manoeuvre cards with cut outs for the bases. Does anyone know what happened to them? Whether they are still available at all?
A link would be much appreciated.
Just getting a few people started in the AI game at our club and could do with some decent cards which would help them to see how to use the cards properly.

HG

Steam_Giant
18-02-2012, 18:45
This thread may be what your refering to:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?showtopic=237&st=0&#last

I thought they were on Warseer too, but cant find them on search.

At one point myself and "lackofbettername" worked on a "master manoeuvre card" or "one card to rule them all" Il see if i can find it somewhere.

Cheers

Harkon Greywolf
19-02-2012, 16:40
Thanks Steam Giant.
That's exactly what I wanted!
:D

HG

juxt
29-03-2012, 08:13
i'm getting really tempted by the idea of picking up the IA books and a couple of squadrons, but there's a couple of logistical questions that are niggling me before i jump right in.

1) does AI use terrain? or need terrain to play properly? as i imagine it, dog fights and aerial battles happen so high up, there's only really mountain ranges and possibly the tops of towers etc to be concerned about. i only play 40k and don't really relish the idea of having to make a whole new set of terrain in a different scale.
2) what size table is standard for games of AI? i've got a standard 6x4 table which i assume is more than enough?

Darnok
29-03-2012, 08:16
Terrain is absolutely not needed. You can use any table you want, as long as it is more or less flat (cotyfight won't do it...). There are rules for different height levels on the ground, but they are optional.

6x4 is more than enough for all but massive games. I have played games with half a dozen models per side which worked just fine on a 4x4 table.

juxt
29-03-2012, 08:36
thats exactly what i wanted to hear :) thank you

Dhalsim-on
29-03-2012, 15:27
Really very interested in this, I could do with another cheap alternative... I'm really getting back into Mordheim and BFG atm so if I like AI as well it could stop me spending my bank account on the plastic crack every month!

I'll see if there are any games on youtube to look at.

Hadhafang V2
13-05-2012, 14:01
I had one game of this, using my Imperials, and I absolutely loved it. Sadly it completely died out in my local area; and I'd have to travel a substantial distance just to get a game in. And the models are awesome too.

Darnok
13-05-2012, 14:37
AI is one of those few games were it is absolutely possible to own two or more factions, if only for diversity. In that case you can always borrow your models to somebody interested.

shadowgamer
14-12-2015, 22:30
Is there any competative scene for this game anywhere?