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View Full Version : Are Banners worth the points?



JackBurton01
19-07-2007, 20:25
I was looking at elf banners and they cost 35 points, thats 5 elves. Are they really worth giving up the warriors just to reroll 1 fight dice a turn? I haven't played much so I'm just asking.

Oberon
19-07-2007, 21:24
5 Elves?? You must be talking about "wood elves" then? For WE the banner is even more valuable than for high elves, as you canīt afford to lose a fight (you will lose a model too if it happens, most often). It is worth its points for HE too, D6 F5 shield wall with re-rolls and spear-support is very strong defensive formation.

JackBurton01
19-07-2007, 23:18
You're right high elves are just 7 points base, they would be closer to 10 fully equipped thats still 3 elves I just don't see the reroll being worth it.

Scuzzlebutt
20-07-2007, 02:01
Yes, they are definitely worth it, especially in Elven armies, because it gives you another chance against opponents die roll, and because you have the higher fight value, you don't need to beat it, just tie. I have seen a small wood elf force take apart huge numbers of orcs simply becuase they had that re-roll.

Makaber
20-07-2007, 02:59
Oh, this debate again.

It depends how you define "worth their points". Imagine you're buying a motorcycle. It costs you Ģ1000. Is it worth the money? Well, that depends on a number of factors: Do you need a transportation device in the first place? Do you live in the arctic, where driving it around is almost impossible? Do you plan to haul furniture with it? Do you know how to ride a motorcycle?

Similarly with the banner. It's rarely an outright waste of points, but whether the points are better spent elsewhere depends hugely on your army and what you're trying to do. There's a couple of reoccurring factors, though:

It's best in armies with a decent Fight value on its troops. If the troops have a very low fight value, you'll need to beat the opponent's roll to win the combat. However, if it's very high, you only need to equal it, thus making the re-roll more valuable because of the higher chance of success.

It's generally a better investment in armies with medium to low armour scores. If a uruk-hai or a dwarf loses combat, they can usually count on their armour to see them through anyway. However, if a haradrim loses combat, the chance of the haradrim dying is a lot higher. Thus, the haradrim has mroe to gain from winning the fight: Not only to kill the enemy, but to save his own hide as well (to a much larger degree). The banner helps achieving this.

Similarly, it's good in armies with high strength, where you stand a greater chance of killing the enemy if you win.

Finally, it's best in armies that likes to operate in tight formations. I find that many players underestimate the range of the banner, and I agree that a mere 3" looks very little on paper. However, considering that the base of the banner bearer is 1" across, and that it only needs to partially reach the base of whatever it needs to affect, the operational diameter of the effect "bubble" is actually more like 7.5". This can cover a seizable chunk of battle, and have a significant effect if enough models are affected by it. If your force is spread out and you're only affecting a couple of troops, then obviously it's not as good.

The best advice I can give you is to get a banner model and try it out. Worst case scenario is you get a new miniature you don't use as often as the others, and there's a good chance you'll like it and it'll improve your gameplay performance. Good luck!

NickWeed
20-07-2007, 03:49
I wouldnt go to battle without the banner. It has helped win a fight more than once when i was in a dire situation.

Cal585
20-07-2007, 07:50
I even take a banner (drum) in my 500 point goblin force :eek:
Seriously, I've found its been very useful on a number of occasions and have held onto it despite advice to scrap it. Probably because there's only so many goblins you can get into basecontact before the rest are milling around waiting for some holes to open up (especially against hero heavy armies). And the benefit to the troll and other strong models is quite useful. I could get rid of it but then I'd go over hte model limit anyway ;), unless I replaced it with some captains or trolls... Or prowlers now that they're an option...

Generally though, listen to Makaber. High Fight Value, Low Defence or Tight Formation are all great reasons to include one (if you have a loose formation and troops everywhere, then a banner is not as good as more warriros).

cincycody
22-07-2007, 04:17
I think they're great because they can defenitly turn a battle around but i wish that their ability would expand beyond the reach of 3 inches that would be awesome.

JackBurton01
23-07-2007, 15:53
Just wanted to say thanks for responding, I realized after reading the posts and rereading the rules that a banner lets you reroll one dice for each combat thats in 3 inches, instead of just one like I originally thought. So I am totally convinced that banners are indeed worth taking.

Pertinax
23-07-2007, 16:57
Listen to Mak on this one. He's got it right on the head.

Samhane
23-07-2007, 19:55
My gaming group has a house rule that banners AoE is 2 more inches than in it's profile. So in most cases, our banners have a AoE of 5 inches. I don't think it's too unfair, but that's just me.