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FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 13:10
Hi All, hope you can help, this occurred last night and I felt it warranted discussion, the situation was:

COK
COK
COK
COK


SSSSS
SSSS
wwwwww

Where cok are cold one knights and s are swordsmen and w is a wall. The coks charged the swordsmen (they were just in the charge arc) I failed the fear test and as I was outnumbered I ran. Now here is the question, when I flee the rules say that I move directly away from the enemy which my opponent and another player said I had to run in the direction the COKs were facing (ie run at 4 0'clock in the above picture) which meant I was running directly into the path of the COKs and they would not even have to do the wheel they needed to do to make the charge. I felt that directly away from the opponent was irrelevant to the way his cold ones were facing and that I should charge away at 6 o'clock. This would mean the wall would not affect me but would fail his charge.

What are your thoughts?

This was asked by my friend on another site, thought I would throw it open, I was GM for this battle and I saw it as the rules stated the fleeing unit pivots on the spot and faces the enemy and then flees directly away from the enemy in that direction, enabling the Cold one Knights to avoid the wall and pursue the enemy unit, was this right?

Actually what the graphic does not show is that the COK unit is at an angle to the swordsman unit, can be seen better on original post, and the swordsman unit were much nearer to the end of the wall.

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=17397.msg198979#new

Festus
20-07-2007, 14:34
You line middle of unit to middle of unit and then you flee along this line.

Festus

FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 16:26
But you pivot the fleeing unit first in the middle to face the enemy?

Mouse_NJ
20-07-2007, 16:36
Yes you basically pivot your spot to face away from the unit and then flee. The pivot does not count as movement, but just make sure you always stay consistent on measuring so no one gets cheated out of a fleeing unit caught, or getting away

FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 16:43
So i did the right thing then by making the swordsman unit pivot to face the COK unit and then run away directly from the enemy.

Lord Steven
20-07-2007, 16:57
I would imagine this is the same as opting to flee. Which is centre of unit to centre of unit.

If they flee into a wall which is impassable then they are destroyed. If you have agreed the wall is difficult terrain then they will flee through it with no impediment.

FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 18:10
I would imagine this is the same as opting to flee. Which is centre of unit to centre of unit.

If they flee into a wall which is impassable then they are destroyed. If you have agreed the wall is difficult terrain then they will flee through it with no impediment.


Yep wall was just difficult but the empire player did not want to have to face the De unit as then he would not have a wall to impede the COK unit...

I'm having a hard time with this on the Empire site where the question was first noted, the diagram on pg 22 is virtually the mirror image to the actual event and there the goblin unit has the wheel to face directly away from the chargers who were going to have to wheel to charge anyway...
Was I right?

Does it make a difference to the alignment of the fleeing unit if the other unit was going to have to wheel to maximise CC?

Atrahasis
20-07-2007, 18:19
Yep wall was just difficultA wall would normally be a linear obstacle.


goblin unit has the wheel to face directly away from the chargersThe fleeing unit does not wheel. It pivots on its centre (for free) to face directly away from the centre of the enemy unit.


Does it make a difference to the alignment of the fleeing unit if the other unit was going to have to wheel to maximise CC?No, the vector the unit flees along is determined by the centres of the two units, so wheeling is irrelevant.

FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 19:49
Yep I meant pivot, so does the Empire unit have to pivot and therefore have a different flle path than the empire player thought, drawing a line from centre to centre in my eye means they would...

Also does that mean the wall would destory fleeing unit or is it just impassable terrain?

Brodrick
20-07-2007, 20:21
If the wall was specified as difficult or as an obstacle, all movement penalties are ignored for fleeing units. Only when the terrain is impassible is the fleeing unit destroyed.

Atrahasis
20-07-2007, 21:10
Yep I meant pivot, so does the Empire unit have to pivot and therefore have a different flle path than the empire player thought, drawing a line from centre to centre in my eye means they would...The flee path is along a line through the two units' centres. That line is the same both before and after the pivot.

FatOlaf
20-07-2007, 22:38
The flee path is along a line through the two units' centres. That line is the same both before and after the pivot.

So 2 clarify the empire unit would have had a slightly different flee route than simply just running straight backwards from their original positon? This would have made a difference in the pursuing unit not having to cross a wall in their chase and therefore catching the empire unit...

Masque
21-07-2007, 09:28
Let's see if this helps. (Please don't laugh, I only had Paint to work with.)

http://www.efn.org/~fred_m/diagram.jpg

The Swordsmen pivot around their center until they are facing directly away from the center of the Cold Ones. The directions the units were facing before has absolutely no effect on this. Then the Swordsmen move straight forward which is directly away from the Cold Ones.

Festus
21-07-2007, 09:41
Hi

Here is a quick diagram:

Festus

edit: too slow! :(

;)

warlord hack'a
21-07-2007, 10:34
and the COK would fail their charge but have to wheel to come paralel to the yellow line in the picture and then move the remainder of their 7"move right? Or do they only have to wheel enough to again have the swordsmen in their sight and then move forward?

Veldemere
21-07-2007, 10:38
Thanks guys I thought that was the most sensible solution.

FatOlaf
21-07-2007, 11:21
Only thing that is bugging me here is that the unit is fleeing in the same direction as the goblin unit on pg22 and yet they are being charged a different side. The drawings are good but the swordsmen unit were further over right on the end of the wall, why are they not fleeing in the other direction as this is where the charge is coming from?

warlord hack'a
21-07-2007, 11:38
Fatolaf, I am sorry but I have no idea what you mean, they are fleeing from where the charge is coming from..

Festus
21-07-2007, 12:56
The unit loses all formation as soon as it flees.

The pivot is there to measure the distance exactly.

It flees directly away from the enemy charging - and not along the path of the charge.

After the Flight has been done, the charging unit has to move as close as possible to the end-position of the flying unit, wheeling up to once. If it contacts the fleeing unit, the latter is destroyed.

Simple thing, really: All you have to do is to move the fleeing unit in a direct line away from the unit which declared a charge. No manoeuvre, no wheel, no reform, nothing: Just pivot them so that they can move along the mentioned line. Nothing fancy.

Festus